Abortion?

[SmashMouth]

2 hours ago, bullets13 said:

It's not a crime in my eyes because the law says it isn't.  I do believe it's sin, but there's lot of sin that we all do that isn't criminal.  

Do you think slavery - men owning other humans - was ok when it was legal? What about witch burning...that ok too?

[LumRaiderFan]

3 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

Do you think slavery - men owning other humans - was ok when it was legal? What about witch burning...that ok too?

Good point that I have brought up before, there are some that seem to think just because it's the law and has been for a while, that's just the way it is.  I'm certainly glad that cowardly attitude wasn't applied to slavery, women's voting rights, minority voting rights...the list goes on and on.

Some also think we should just sit back and allow babies to be murdered because we could risk losing votes, smh, I guess some folks feel like that's a fight worth fighting.

[bullets13]

12 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

Do you think slavery - men owning other humans - was ok when it was legal? What about witch burning...that ok too?

I think it wasn’t a crime when it was legal.  That doesn’t mean it was “ok.”   The difference is that, as society progressed, your examples were made illegal, while abortion was made legal (during very conservative times, it’s worth mentioning)

[SmashMouth]

21 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I think it wasn’t a crime when it was legal.  That doesn’t mean it was “ok.”   The difference is that, as society progressed, your examples were made illegal, while abortion was made legal (during very conservative times, it’s worth mentioning)

Are you saying you are ok with anything that is legal?

[baddog]

1 hour ago, SmashMouth said:

Are you saying you are ok with anything that is legal?

The whole problem here is that you can’t legislate morality. 

[bullets13]

2 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

Are you saying you are ok with anything that is legal?

I literally said "That doesn't mean it's okay" in the very short post that you quoted when asking this question.   

[bullets13]

45 minutes ago, baddog said:

The whole problem here is that you can’t legislate morality. 

This is the crux of the issue entirely.  And it's been determined by the high courts that abortion is a moral issue rather than a legal one, although obviously some states are challenging that. 

[SmashMouth]

39 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I literally said "That doesn't mean it's okay" in the very short post that you quoted when asking this question.   

Sorry, let me ask you a more pointed question. Are you ok with a legal abortion at  16 or 18 weeks? Is there a threshold at which you think it’s too late? If yes, what is the benchmark that makes it “not ok” to abort a child?

[bullets13]

6 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

Sorry, let me ask you a more pointed question. Are you ok with a legal abortion at  16 or 18 weeks? Is there a threshold at which you think it’s too late? If yes, what is the benchmark that makes it “not ok” to abort a child?

As i've stated earlier in this thread, I'm not a fan of abortion, but the threshold where I personally feel it should be illegal is when the baby could be viable outside of the womb.  so around 18-20 weeks, even though the odds of survival outside of the womb at that point are almost nil.  That gives a mother time to realize she's pregnant before the opportunity make a choice runs out, while preventing a baby which could possibly survive on it's own from being killed.  An exception for anything later than that would be for health risks to the mother only.  

[5GallonBucket]

2 hours ago, baddog said:

The whole problem here is that you can’t legislate morality. 

 

1 hour ago, bullets13 said:

This is the crux of the issue entirely.  And it's been determined by the high courts that abortion is a moral issue rather than a legal one, although obviously some states are challenging that. 

I agree it is a moral issue..... but it’s also a legal issue.

when a murder commits the crime against a pregnant woman(both die)= double murder. LEGAL issue

murder is a crime .....manslaughter is a crime.  A life is now gone. LEGAL issue

 

[5GallonBucket]

18 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

But I'll add to this... I think the Supreme Court taking up the abortion issue again is a mistake. The precedent has always been not to re-visit the decisions of previous courts.  If anybody knows of anything that differentiates this new case from Roe v Wade, I'd like to hear it.

Besides the first reason, I also disagree because this will push the Dems into trying to "pack" the supreme court.  We really don't need situations where the Supreme Court becomes politicized and takes up previous decisions that were reached by a court with a different make-up.  The obvious solution is to add members to the court.  We're at 6-3 right now.... adding 4 Justices makes it a 7-6 split the other way.  Then the Rs will turn right back around and add a few the next time that they are in power to grind old axes.  That alone is reason enough to leave it be.

Also, abortion has been legal since 1973.  48 years!  It has literally been legal longer than most Americans have been alive.  Young people don't feel as strongly about it being "wrong" for a lot of reasons.  If you really want to be the party of old guys trying to take away freedoms that these young people have had their whole lives, go right ahead.... you'll pay for it at the polls.

The simple answer is to draft a constitutional amendment to make it illegal.  Have it ratified by the states and it will truly be outlawed.  Except the pro-lifers don't have the necessary votes.... so it should just be left alone.

I agree with the mindset of liberals....shows you how low they ll go......no matter who it hurts....especially the gift of life.

[bullets13]

54 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

 

I agree it is a moral issue..... but it’s also a legal issue.

when a murder commits the crime against a pregnant woman(both die)= double murder. LEGAL issue

murder is a crime .....manslaughter is a crime.  A life is now gone. LEGAL issue

 

But as the law often shows, different standards and outcomes occur in different situations.  For example, if I break down your door and kill you, I'm charged with murder.  If you break down MY door and I kill you, although the outcome is exactly the same, I'm charged with nothing.  The same holds true for abortion vs. murdering a woman and her fetus.  So while it's a legal issue, as you say, abortion falls on the legal side of the issue, while murdering a pregnant woman is illegal.   

[baddog]

38 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

 

I agree it is a moral issue..... but it’s also a legal issue.

when a murder commits the crime against a pregnant woman(both die)= double murder. LEGAL issue

murder is a crime .....manslaughter is a crime.  A life is now gone. LEGAL issue

 

What I meant was that people have morals that they adhere to because it is the right thing to do and they feel strongly about. You can’t introduce legislation that becomes law and expect those morals to disappear. Abortion is not like putting up a new speed limit sign. 

[5GallonBucket]

This is we’re the issue is....life.....when does it begin?

people who are ok with killing babies have there opinion on when life begins for it to suit them.

scientifically life starts when sperm and egg join.  That’s cut and dry.  Black and white. Biology people.

what’s sad is that too many people will come up with any type of explanation to have the right to take a baby s life.

Very sad......go back and look at all the reasons people give to take a precious life.  

I look at those who are ok with this as GOD does

[5GallonBucket]

20 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

But as the law often shows, different standards and outcomes occur in different situations.  For example, if I break down your door and kill you, I'm charged with murder.  If you break down MY door and I kill you, although the outcome is exactly the same, I'm charged with nothing.  The same holds true for abortion vs. murdering a woman and her fetus.  So while it's a legal issue, as you say, abortion falls on the legal side of the issue, while murdering a pregnant woman is illegal.   

You have the right to protect you and family s life, but yet an innocent baby doesn’t get that right.

Gotcha 

[bullets13]

3 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

You have the right to protect you and family s life, but yet an innocent baby doesn’t get that right.

Gotcha 

You're not getting me, you're getting the law.  

[5GallonBucket]

@bullets13 

yes or no: do you believe nursing babies should be legal?

remember  just a YES or NO.  I don’t want to hear any “ifs” or “buts”

[bullets13]

Just now, 5GallonBucket said:

@bullets13 

yes or no: do you believe nursing babies should be legal?

remember  just a YES or NO.  I don’t want to hear any “ifs” or “buts”

Sure, it should be legal, but there are very few if, any, areas of law were there aren't "ifs and buts".  

[LumRaiderFan]

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🤦 Now abortion saves lives.

[Unwoke]

1 hour ago, LumRaiderFan said:

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🤦 Now abortion saves lives.

Is this one of those Jedi Mind Trick Post? Lol 🤦

[Unwoke]

Justice Alito: “The fetus has an interest in having a life, and that doesn’t change from the point before viability to the point after viability, does it?”

Supreme Court is doing a good job so far in Dobbs vs Jackson asking good questions and asking about the legal and constitutional rights of abortion. The only thing is will they bend over to mob rule or not?

[tvc184]

I think Stare Decisis will be the sticking point. 

[Reagan]

BREAKING: Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas Terrifies Pro-Abortion Left With ONE Opening Question!

From the article:  "” Does a mother have a right to ingest drugs and harm a pre-viable baby? Can the state bring child neglect charges against the mother?" he asked."

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[tvc184]

The man who rarely speaks, just spoke volumes. 

[CardinalBacker]

I’ll be honest here…. There’s a direct correlation between Roe V Wade in 1973 and the drop in violent crime that began in the early 90’s. Those abortions prevented unwanted/undisciplined kids from becoming criminalized and incarcerated. 
 

Can you imagine how bad crime would be in the inner cities if they weren’t also aborting future criminals at a rate that is much higher than any other ethnic group?