Vaccination Food For Thought

[Chester86]

What a bright and intelligent young man.  I thoroughly enjoyed this press conference and applaud his conviction, demeanor and ability to navigate through this with conviction.  Lastly, I agree that this should be a personal choice.

 

[Hagar]

I found this particularly disturbing.  Oklahoma teacher had two Pfizer shots then got the booster in August.  Now he’s caught Covid.  Before Vaxers start screaming, I’ve had my two Moderna shots.  I just wonder if the shots help that much in prevention, although it does seem to help in severity.

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[LumRaiderFan]

2 hours ago, Hagar said:

I found this particularly disturbing.  Oklahoma teacher had two Pfizer shots then got the booster in August.  Now he’s caught Covid.  Before Vaxers start screaming, I’ve had my two Moderna shots.  I just wonder if the shots help that much in prevention, although it does seem to help in severity.

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There doesn't seem to be much evidence that it helps in prevention based on lots of vaccinated folks getting covid, there does seem to be evidence that it lessens the effects if you do get covid. 

[tvc184]

I don’t feel like digging into a bunch of websites but roughly speaking…

I have seen in the several websites that say over 185 million Americans have received at least two shots or one from JJ. They are claimed to be something like 90% effective in stopping the virus. If you do get a breakthrough case, it should be less severe.

That means….

Approximately almost 20 million Americans might get breakthrough cases. That also leaves about 160 million Americans who it is going to completely protect.

Pointing out that this person or that person got the virus or maybe even died although the vaccine was taken, fits within the approximate 20 million Americans who have had the vaccine and still got or are going to get Covid. 

[Hagar]

I’d hoped that three vaccinations would pretty much make you immune, but the mutations of Covid are happening so fast, it’s quite possible that soon one will evolve that isn’t deterred by the vaccine at all.  As my wife has been saying for a long time, I believe Covid will be with us from now on.  My imagination can come up with some very scary scenarios.  So if some of you are waiting for it to “go away” before returning to a normal routine, you might want to come up with a plan B.  Jmo

[baddog]

12 minutes ago, Hagar said:

I’d hoped that three vaccinations would pretty much make you immune, but the mutations of Covid are happening so fast, it’s quite possible that soon one will evolve that isn’t deterred by the vaccine at all.  As my wife has been saying for a long time, I believe Covid will be with us from now on.  My imagination can come up with some very scary scenarios.  So if some of you are waiting for it to “go away” before returning to a normal routine, you might want to come up with a plan B.  Jmo

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[Hagar]

3 minutes ago, baddog said:

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Aha, I’ve long heard of Fuzzy Headed Mutants and now there’s proof they exist.  😂😂😂

[baddog]

7 minutes ago, Hagar said:

Aha, I’ve long heard of Fuzzy Headed Mutants and now there’s proof they exist.  😂😂😂

I thought it was a good article. It wasn’t like a lot of articles where you can tell someone is trying to convince you of something you really don’t believe. George Carlin taught me how to spot stupid people. Watch it if you haven’t already.  Lmao

[LumRaiderFan]

1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

I don’t feel like digging into a bunch of websites but roughly speaking…

I have seen in the several websites that say over 185 million Americans have received at least two shots or one from JJ. They are claimed to be something like 90% effective in stopping the virus. If you do get a breakthrough case, it should be less severe.

That means….

Approximately almost 20 million Americans might get breakthrough cases. That also leaves about 160 million Americans who it is going to completely protect.

Pointing out that this person or that person got the virus or maybe even died although the vaccine was taken, fits within the approximate 20 million Americans who have had the vaccine and still got or are going to get Covid. 

Problem is that just because someone doesn't get the virus after being vaccinated doesn't mean that the vaccine is what stopped it. 

Coming up with the 90% effective is absolutely unprovable.

Folks should make up their own mind...good luck sifting through the studies, evidence and "science".

[tvc184]

2 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Problem is that just because someone doesn't get the virus after being vaccinated doesn't mean that the vaccine is what stopped it. 

Coming up with the 90% effective is absolutely unprovable.

Folks should make up their own mind...good luck sifting through the studies, evidence and "science".

If half of the adults in a county are vaccinated and about 95% of the people admitted to the hospital for Covid are not vaccinated, I would call that fairly provable.

You can say that we can’t be sure why 95% of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated and 5% are but I think that is ignoring the obvious. The virus might get into your system if you have been vaccinated but it sure seems to change the potential outcome.

I am not vaccinated and recently went to a fairly moderate to severe case of Covid. Although the disease has run its course, I am still recovering and probably will for several months.

I did not take the vaccine because of a fear of its side effects, not because it does not work. I think the evidence is fairly clear that the vaccine makes a huge difference in either not showing symptoms or if so, being relatively mild.

But again, even if it is 90% effective (or as our vocabulary has recently expanded, efficacy), millions of people will still get more seriously  infected and some of them will die. I think the evidence is fairly clear however that it will be at a much lower rate.

If someone wants to take the vaccine, they will be many times less likely to be seriously ill or die from Covid. If they are like me and don’t want to live with the fact that they might die in the next week from a complication from the vaccine, even though with at extremely small odds, then that is OK too.

It is a personal choice whether you want to risk the extremely small but possible serious side effects from the vaccine or the disease itself. 

 

 

[tvc184]

3 hours ago, baddog said:

I thought it was a good article. It wasn’t like a lot of articles where you can tell someone is trying to convince you of something you really don’t believe. George Carlin taught me how to spot stupid people. Watch it if you haven’t already.  Lmao

I read the article it appears to me that although it did not say the exact words, it was definitely recommending the vaccines. The main parts of the article was that the viruses do mutate, people delaying the second booster shot for several months will do more harm than good and we are better off if we all take different brands of the vaccine. We would be better off if several different companies made vaccines, which is the case and probably becoming more-so, and we don’t all ganging up on one particular company. According to that article if I take the Pfizer vaccine causes a mutation but you take Moderna and get exposed to that mutation, the Moderna will likely kill it. That is because the virus mutated to get around the Pfizer vaccine and any other brand will likely stop the mutation in its tracks.

That is according to the article you posted.

[LumRaiderFan]

1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

If half of the adults in a county are vaccinated and about 95% of the people admitted to the hospital for Covid are not vaccinated, I would call that fairly provable.

You can say that we can’t be sure why 95% of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated and 5% are but I think that is ignoring the obvious. The virus might get into your system if you have been vaccinated but it sure seems to change the potential outcome.

I am not vaccinated and recently went to a fairly moderate to severe case of Covid. Although the disease has run its course, I am still recovering and probably will for several months.

I did not take the vaccine because of a fear of its side effects, not because it does not work. I think the evidence is fairly clear that the vaccine makes a huge difference in either not showing symptoms or if so, being relatively mild.

But again, even if it is 90% effective (or as our vocabulary has recently expanded, efficacy), millions of people will still get more seriously  infected and some of them will die. I think the evidence is fairly clear however that it will be at a much lower rate.

If someone wants to take the vaccine, they will be many times less likely to be seriously ill or die from Covid. If they are like me and don’t want to live with the fact that they might die in the next week from a complication from the vaccine, even though with at extremely small odds, then that is OK too.

It is a personal choice whether you want to risk the extremely small but possible serious side effects from the vaccine or the disease itself. 

 

 

I’ll keep mine short, nothing I said was wrong. 

[bullets13]

8 hours ago, Hagar said:

I found this particularly disturbing.  Oklahoma teacher had two Pfizer shots then got the booster in August.  Now he’s caught Covid.  Before Vaxers start screaming, I’ve had my two Moderna shots.  I just wonder if the shots help that much in prevention, although it does seem to help in severity.

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From everything I’ve seen, and from a lot of sources, the Pfizer vaccine is notably less effective at preventing breakthrough cases.  That said, it’s still preventing cases, and just as effective at preventing serious breakthrough cases.  The majority of people I know who’ve had breakthrough cases were vaccinated with Pfizer, but I know one or two that got it after moderna.  I don’t know what difference between the two has made one less effective, but I’m glad I got moderna.  We had a major COVID outbreak in my school district that lasted three or four weeks after school started.  My teaching assistant had a breakthrough case after taking the Pfizer, and I spent several hours within a few feet of her the day she developed symptoms and did not get sick.  5 days later an unvaccinated teacher who I’d been around for several hours got sick, and I again didn’t get sick.  The other unvaccinated teacher on our team got it from her and developed symptoms 5 days later.  Again I was around her quite a bit and didn’t get sick.  So as best I can tell, considering that I’ve never (knowingly) had COVID, I’m pretty confident in saying that the vaccine to this point has kept me from getting sick. 

[Hagar]

13 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

From everything I’ve seen, and from a lot of sources, the Pfizer vaccine is notably less effective at preventing breakthrough cases.  That said, it’s still preventing cases, and just as effective at preventing serious breakthrough cases.  The majority of people I know who’ve had breakthrough cases were vaccinated with Pfizer, but I know one or two that got it after moderna.  I don’t know what difference between the two has made one less effective, but I’m glad I got moderna.  We had a major COVID outbreak in my school district that lasted three or four weeks after school started.  My teaching assistant had a breakthrough case after taking the Pfizer, and I spent several hours within a few feet of her the day she developed symptoms and did not get sick.  5 days later an unvaccinated teacher who I’d been around for several hours got sick, and I again didn’t get sick.  The other unvaccinated teacher on our team got it from her and developed symptoms 5 days later.  Again I was around her quite a bit and didn’t get sick.  So as best I can tell, considering that I’ve never (knowingly) had COVID, I’m pretty confident in saying that the vaccine to this point has kept me from getting sick. 

I’ve read, but haven’t verified, that Blood type may be significant.  I’m type 0 Neg as is my immediate family members.  None of us have contracted the virus.  Are you 0 Type?  Just curious if they may explain why you’ve been unscathed even though in close contact.

[5GallonBucket]

5 hours ago, Hagar said:

I’d hoped that three vaccinations would pretty much make you immune, but the mutations of Covid are happening so fast, it’s quite possible that soon one will evolve that isn’t deterred by the vaccine at all.  As my wife has been saying for a long time, I believe Covid will be with us from now on.  My imagination can come up with some very scary scenarios.  So if some of you are waiting for it to “go away” before returning to a normal routine, you might want to come up with a plan B.  Jmo

I understand if you are over weight, older, underlying health issues ….yeah you may want to get the vaccine.

So who has a better chance of beating this in the END: someone  being pumped full of meds every few months the rest of their life  (not knowing the long term effects) or someone who doesn’t.

[Hagar]

2 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

I understand if you are over weight, older, underlying health issues ….yeah you may want to get the vaccine.

So who has a better chance of beating this in the END: someone  being pumped full of meds every few months the rest of their life  (not knowing the long term effects) or someone who doesn’t.

Great question.   Durn if I have a good answer.  I’m old, overweight & not in great health so long term effects are not in my wheelhouse.  😄

[5GallonBucket]

24 minutes ago, Hagar said:

Great question.   Durn if I have a good answer.  I’m old, overweight & not in great health so long term effects are not in my wheelhouse.  😄

And when I used the word “you” I wasn’t referring to you nor calling you fat old and unhealthy.

talking in general 

[bullets13]

58 minutes ago, Hagar said:

I’ve read, but haven’t verified, that Blood type may be significant.  I’m type 0 Neg as is my immediate family members.  None of us have contracted the virus.  Are you 0 Type?  Just curious if they may explain why you’ve been unscathed even though in close contact.

I’m not O-

[tvc184]

44 minutes ago, Hagar said:

Great question.   Durn if I have a good answer.  I’m old, overweight & not in great health so long term effects are not in my wheelhouse.  😄

Yeah, I’ve heard people in various forums and say stuff like, what happens in 20 to 30 years from now?

If I live to be in my mid too late 90s, what do I care? 😀

[Hagar]

1 hour ago, 5GallonBucket said:

And when I used the word “you” I wasn’t referring to you nor calling you fat old and unhealthy.

talking in general 

No problem, I never thought you did.  But I am old fat & unhealthy, but I refuse to be referred to as ugly, LOL.

[Hagar]

44 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I’m not O-

Another theory goes down in flames…. 😜🤪😜

[LumRaiderFan]

10 minutes ago, Hagar said:

Another theory goes down in flames…. 😜🤪😜

A lot of that going on in these covid times, lol.

[5GallonBucket]

6 hours ago, Hagar said:

Another theory goes down in flames…. 😜🤪😜

Yep and I’m O and had it 3 times

1st time really bad

2nd time and 3rd time not bad at all except after the 3rd I ended up with pneumonia and that wasn’t fun.

[Hagar]

2 hours ago, 5GallonBucket said:

Yep and I’m O and had it 3 times

1st time really bad

2nd time and 3rd time not bad at all except after the 3rd I ended up with pneumonia and that wasn’t fun.

Good grief, that shoots down another theory of mine - that catching & getting over Covid would provide the best protection.  This stuff has outsmarted me at every turn.  Certainly doesn’t act like anything we’ve run into before (that I can think of).  Then again, we don’t ordinarily run into man made diseases.   One more theory I have, I expect this crud to be with us for many years.  Hope I’m wrong on that one too.

[5GallonBucket]

2 hours ago, Hagar said:

Good grief, that shoots down another theory of mine - that catching & getting over Covid would provide the best protection.  This stuff has outsmarted me at every turn.  Certainly doesn’t act like anything we’ve run into before (that I can think of).  Then again, we don’t ordinarily run into man made diseases.   One more theory I have, I expect this crud to be with us for many years.  Hope I’m wrong on that one too.

Well I will say that me having it initially spared me the 2nd and 3 rd time as far as severity.