Alec Baldwin

[baddog]

Oh, if only we could have all the lives back that were taken with an unloaded gun. Oldest excuse in the world. Hot-headed Baldwin probably picked it up and aimed at the woman, who was part of the director’s crew, and said, “What did you say b#*&%?…..and it fired. Does anyone actually believe that he asked if it was a “cold gun”? It’s a shame that she died. This will haunt Baldwin for the rest of his pitiful existence. 
 

Alec Baldwin was told firearm was unloaded, search warrant says: report

 

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[Chester86]

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[tvc184]

20 hours ago, baddog said:

Oh, if only we could have all the lives back that were taken with an unloaded gun. Oldest excuse in the world. Hot-headed Baldwin probably picked it up and aimed at the woman, who was part of the director’s crew, and said, “What did you say b#*&%?…..and it fired. Does anyone actually believe that he asked if it was a “cold gun”? It’s a shame that she died. This will haunt Baldwin for the rest of his pitiful existence. 
 

Alec Baldwin was told firearm was unloaded, search warrant says: report

 

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You certainly have a vivid imagination or did you simply repeat another person’s theory? 

[baddog]

1 minute ago, tvc184 said:

You certainly have a vivid imagination or did you simply repeat another person’s theory? 

Vivid imagination. Also, difficult to accidentally shoot someone unless the gun is pointed at them. I won’t lie, I can’t stand Baldwin and it’s not for his Trump impersonations, so I am biased against him.

[Big girl]

On 10/23/2021 at 12:45 PM, baddog said:

Oh, if only we could have all the lives back that were taken with an unloaded gun. Oldest excuse in the world. Hot-headed Baldwin probably picked it up and aimed at the woman, who was part of the director’s crew, and said, “What did you say b#*&%?…..and it fired. Does anyone actually believe that he asked if it was a “cold gun”? It’s a shame that she died. This will haunt Baldwin for the rest of his pitiful existence. 
 

Alec Baldwin was told firearm was unloaded, search warrant says: report

 

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The person in charge of making sure the prop gun was safe told him it was a cold gun. It is not the actor's responsibility. 

[Big girl]

Just now, Big girl said:

The person in charge of making sure the prop gun was safe told him it was a cold gun. They have experts on the set for that reason. It is not the actor's responsibility. 

 

[baddog]

Just now, Big girl said:

The person in charge of making sure the prop gun was safe told him it was a cold gun. They have experts on the set to ensure that the gun is safe. It is not the actor's responsibility. 

If someone hands me a gun and says it’s not loaded, I double check it myself. You’d have a whole different attitude had he shot your son or daughter.

”I didn’t know it was loaded”……oldest excuse in the book. He’s a POS so I’m not surprised that you would be on his side. Ever seen his phone call to his daughter?…..but Trump tweets are mean.

[Big girl]

2 minutes ago, baddog said:

If someone hands me a gun and says it’s not loaded, I double check it myself. You’d have a whole different attitude had he shot your son or daughter.

”I didn’t know it was loaded”……oldest excuse in the book. He’s a POS so I’m not surprised that you would be on his side. Ever seen his phone call to his daughter?…..but Trump tweets are mean.

You are insane. Contrary to what you believe, that is not the protocol when an actor is on the set.

[thetragichippy]

4 minutes ago, Big girl said:

You are insane. Contrary to what you believe, that is not the protocol when an actor is on the set.

that may not be a protocol but it should be. 

[thetragichippy]

So, I'm no fan of Alec.....but I do have a question. There have been a handful of people killed by real bullets in "prop guns".....Since a prop gun shoots real bullets, they would be a real gun.......right?  Why can't they make a "prop gun" that can't fire standard bullets.......and if they use real guns, why let any real bullets on the set?  Seems the easy fix is to not allow real bullets on the same property with prop guns.....

[InMAGAWeTrust]

On 10/24/2021 at 9:01 AM, baddog said:

Vivid imagination. Also, difficult to accidentally shoot someone unless the gun is pointed at them. I won’t lie, I can’t stand Baldwin and it’s not for his Trump impersonations, so I am biased against him.

…. Sooooo, what’s this gotta do with politics again lol 

[BS Wildcats]

53 minutes ago, Big girl said:

The person in charge of making sure the prop gun was safe told him it was a cold gun. It is not the actor's responsibility. 

Anytime you have a gun in your hand, it is absolutely your responsibility to make sure it’s safe.  Seeing that you are a liberal Democrat, you have probably never held one, so you have no clue about gun safety!

[baddog]

1 hour ago, Big girl said:

You are insane. Contrary to what you believe, that is not the protocol when an actor is on the set.

What did I say that was insane? He killed someone, but since he is a Hollywood liberal, it’s someone else’s fault. Same old same old….

If I hand you a gun in my house, I’ll tell you…..hell yeah, it’s loaded. What good is an unloaded gun? You might as well have a rock in your pocket.

Let’s see, here’s another one….”ALWAYS HANDLE A GUN AS IF IT IS LOADED”…..which means DON’T PULL THE TRIGGER! Only a bumbling liberal would require this much explanation.

Aren’t you going to push your gun control issue on this one?

[BS Wildcats]

1 hour ago, InMAGAWeTrust said:

…. Sooooo, what’s this gotta do with politics again lol 

It probably has nothing to do with politics,  but liberal nut job Baldwin did say he would leave the country and give up his citizenship if Trump were elected.  Maybe if he had kept his word, this would not have happened.  

[BS Wildcats]

3 hours ago, Big girl said:

The person in charge of making sure the prop gun was safe told him it was a cold gun. It is not the actor's responsibility. 

How can you make a statement such as the last one?  It is incomprehensible how you can say when someone fires a gun, that they are not responsible.  To quote you, it is mind boggling!!  I can’t grasp your logic!!

[tvc184]

On 10/24/2021 at 9:01 AM, baddog said:

Vivid imagination. Also, difficult to accidentally shoot someone unless the gun is pointed at them. I won’t lie, I can’t stand Baldwin and it’s not for his Trump impersonations, so I am biased against him.

NEWSFLASH: When making movies, people point guns at each other!! 

[tvc184]

3 hours ago, baddog said:

If someone hands me a gun and says it’s not loaded, I double check it myself. You’d have a whole different attitude had he shot your son or daughter.

”I didn’t know it was loaded”……oldest excuse in the book. He’s a POS so I’m not surprised that you would be on his side. Ever seen his phone call to his daughter?…..but Trump tweets are mean.

I believe there is a huge difference between Silvester Stallone being handed an M60 machine gun for a movie take and you walking into Academy sporting goods and looking at a Glock 19. I would bet that hundreds of actors fire many thousands of rounds every year on television and movie sets. I would be surprised if any more than a handful knew anything about firearms at all.

Those same movie sets have all kinds of special effects like explosions. Does the actor go check the connections on the explosives and gasoline for the special effects or do they trust experts?

Almost 40 years ago with the Police Academy I learned that anytime you handed someone else a weapon, it was to be completely unloaded and the action  open. The person that you handed it to was also supposed to inspect it to make sure that the first person followed the rules. When firing at the Police Academy range, when we left to go to lunch each cadet had to present an empty weapon with the action open to the cadet on either side of him/her for inspection to make sure it was clear and then an instructor had to come by and make a third inspection. I don’t think most actors went through those classes. Then… the cadet was expected to put live rounds into the weapon in a safe direction before preparing to fire. On a movie set, they are supposed to trust the experts because many or maybe most of the actors but not know how to properly load the weapon or could not tell between a dummy round and a live round anyway.

I bet that I have seen it repeated 500 times on various forums…… the basic rules of firearm safety were not followed. That is absolutely correct however every time an actor points a gun or somebody else in the movies which we love to watch, they are breaking the first, second and third rules of firearm safety. It is certainly not the same as you loading a weapon in your house for self-defense, out in the field while hunting, at the range while practicing or looking over a weapon for maybe purchase or admiration.

Anybody that brings up the rules of firearm safety apparently does not like to watch movies because anytime there is any gun play, there are several violations in each sequence. 

I have said it before but I suspect that if you change Baldwin to Eastwood and change the name of the movie from Rust to Dirty Harry and opinions would be way different.

Alec Baldwin is a political idiot and a whiny crybaby. I don’t think you should be able to convicted of a felony because of his name however. 

[tvc184]

3 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

So, I'm no fan of Alec.....but I do have a question. There have been a handful of people killed by real bullets in "prop guns".....Since a prop gun shoots real bullets, they would be a real gun.......right?  Why can't they make a "prop gun" that can't fire standard bullets.......and if they use real guns, why let any real bullets on the set?  Seems the easy fix is to not allow real bullets on the same property with prop guns.....

Many or maybe even a majority of prop guns are actual working firearms. The word prop just means used on a movie set. There are even items under Texas law that say that certain things are illegal… unless used for a dramatic interpretation. Basically if it’s a play or a movie, you could even have some illegal items.

I have read it before several years ago but I read it again after this case, the death of Brandon Lee. There is a sequence of events that caused his death. Sometimes they use real bullets but hopefully modified by the “expert”. Like when you see a movie where a person is loading a gun, they want it to look like a real bullet. The expert supposedly makes dummy rounds and sometimes puts a primer in the pocket and the actual bullet in the shell casing but not the powder. Then they use the same real shell casing with powder but do not load the bullet and use some kind of wadding to hold the powder in. In the case of Brandon Lee they had a sequence where the gun was shown being loaded and they had a shell with a bullet and a primer but no powder. Unfortunately the actor pull the trigger and the primer was just enough to push the bullet slightly into the barrel. The expert then loaded an actual blank charge with a real shell casing and real primer and powder to make the flash to make it appear that the gun had been fired and when the trigger was pulled with a bullet stuck in the barrel that they did not know about,  it was enough to shove the projectile out the barrel and kill Brandon Lee.

There are other cases where they actually fire real bullets to break windows and such as that. Maybe they have gotten away from that in recent years but I don’t know.

I am sure they will make changes after this tragedy just like they did after Brandon Lee’s death. Anytime they use firearms with real powder and special effects with real explosions,  then such things might happen. The me it is like in the other industrial site with certain dangers. Look at the death of the actor Vic Morrow and two children while filming Twilight Zone: The Movie. The special effects explosions caused a helicopter in the scene to crash on top of them, killing them instantly. There are certainly people who are financially responsible but does it rise to the level of a crime? So much depends on the circumstances and the wording of the state law. I would assume that much of the cases go by the culpable mental state such as intentionally or knowingly or recklessly or criminal negligence. 

[tvc184]

4 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

So, I'm no fan of Alec.....but I do have a question. There have been a handful of people killed by real bullets in "prop guns".....Since a prop gun shoots real bullets, they would be a real gun.......right?  Why can't they make a "prop gun" that can't fire standard bullets.......and if they use real guns, why let any real bullets on the set?  Seems the easy fix is to not allow real bullets on the same property with prop guns.....

Yes,  I am sure they can make a gun that will not fire standard bullets. Because of this case I looked it up and they use a real gun because of the weight, nothing appears more real than a real gun and the way the actor holds it, the recoil, etc. While you can get an airsoft gun that appears to be real, the quarter pound plastic gun in no way will be carried or recoil like a 2 pound handgun. Even then in close-up, they are obviously not real. I have bought some Hollywood stunt ammunition for a shotgun to use in police training and in 21 gun salutes and they fit in regular shotguns just like any other round.

Nothing looks more real and is carried and functions more real than the real thing. As dangerous as it seems talking about it, there have probably been tens of thousands of sequences filmed with no serious injuries. Heck, there might have been safety protocols in place that would have prevented this incident but maybe those protocols were not followed. We could make all the laws and rules in the world but if somebody doesn’t follow those rules and laws, bad things happen.

While Baldwin might not be criminally charged in this case, and there is still that possibility, he was the  producer and in ultimate control of everything. In this movie he was not ”just an actor”.  He better hope that he has good insurance.

[tvc184]

2 hours ago, BS Wildcats said:

It probably has nothing to do with politics,  but liberal nut job Baldwin did say he would leave the country and give up his citizenship if Trump were elected.  Maybe if he had kept his word, this would not have happened.  

I think therein lies the biggest issue with this case. Baldwin is sometimes a crude and obnoxious kook.

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, BS Wildcats said:

How can you make a statement such as the last one?  It is incomprehensible how you can say when someone fires a gun, that they are not responsible.  To quote you, it is mind boggling!!  I can’t grasp your logic!!

That is because a movie set is not the real world. There are a lot of things done in the movies that would not be acceptable in public. 

[tvc184]

4 hours ago, BS Wildcats said:

Anytime you have a gun in your hand, it is absolutely your responsibility to make sure it’s safe.  Seeing that you are a liberal Democrat, you have probably never held one, so you have no clue about gun safety!

…. and you are assuming that anti-gun Hollywood actors have a clue about gun safety? That is why they hire supposedly experts. Apparently in this case one of the experts screwed up big-time or maybe as has been rumored, they hired someone who claimed to be an expert that was not. In any case, high-speed chases, explosions, shoot outs, fight scenes, etc., depend on those experts. 

I doubt that John Wayne knows much about high explosives, putting out oil well fires, TNT, nitroglycerin or anything of that nature but I sure saw him do a lot of it in Hellfighters….. or maybe it was just the experts 

[baddog]

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[BS Wildcats]

5 hours ago, tvc184 said:

…. and you are assuming that anti-gun Hollywood actors have a clue about gun safety? That is why they hire supposedly experts. Apparently in this case one of the experts screwed up big-time or maybe as has been rumored, they hired someone who claimed to be an expert that was not. In any case, high-speed chases, explosions, shoot outs, fight scenes, etc., depend on those experts. 

I doubt that John Wayne knows much about high explosives, putting out oil well fires, TNT, nitroglycerin or anything of that nature but I sure saw him do a lot of it in Hellfighters….. or maybe it was just the experts 

Maybe not, but anytime you point a gun and fire, you should make dang sure it is safe to do so.  Maybe he should have checked it himself.

[tvc184]

in hindsight, yes. It’s crazy how that works. If we knew exactly what was going to happen before it happened, the world would be a lot better place and some people could make millions of dollars in sports betting.

Maybe this, maybe that… but you can bet out of hundreds or thousands of movies and many thousands of action sequences, the actors are not checking to see if the firearms/stunt expert accidentally put a live round in it. 

When Brandon Lee was killed, there were no charges filed. That does not mean they won’t be in this case because it is a different set of circumstances and a different set of state laws. But in that case Lee was killed with an actual bullet. Would an actor have known to look down the barrel to make sure the gun was clear when he saw an actual blank put into it? 

Under the United States Supreme Court phrase of “objective reasonableness”, they said that the police must be judged in the use of force or deadly force by what a reasonable police officer would do, not a civilian or someone judging it later knowing additional facts. It is not intentionally the same however it is the same concept. In Graham v. Connor where the police kind of kicking the crap out of an innocent man, The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that the use of force was justified even though the man had done nothing wrong and the officers made a mistake. That is because when judging at officer’s actions, even when injuring an innocent person, it must be viewed through the eyes of a reasonable officer having to make their decisions with a facts known to them at that moment. In other words, what does a person with his training and  in that same situation, usually do? It doesn’t matter using 20/20 hindsight and looking back on it with additional information.  So, what do actors usually do?

That is significant because using Texas law as an example. It is a crime to point a firearm at a person even if you believe the gun is unloaded and if there was no threat. Simply pointing a gun at someone is a crime, even if you were joking among friends (no matter how stupid).That means that you could probably go back and arrest every actor that has ever appointed a gun on a movie set.

Under the law and under the rules taught of firearm safety, you could almost never make a movie with any kind of action sequence using firearms unless they were toys.  Maybe it will change in the future. Maybe it needs to be or have better safety protocols put in place. It is against the law however (actually in the United States Constitution) to hold people responsible for something that was not a crime when it happened but was later made a law. It would be like a police officer writing you a speeding ticket for going 70 miles an hour in a 70 mile an hour zone but the speed limit was charged to 55 miles an hour six months later. I think people are wanting to hold Alec Baldwin responsible for what many popular actors have done but because his name is Alec Baldwin.