Alec Baldwin

[tvc184]

11 minutes ago, baddog said:

Only if I accidentally shot him for trespassing with an unloaded gun that  I was going to use just to scare him off. 

This has been said before but I guess it either goes over your head or you just ignore it. They were on a movie set. They do things that are illegal in the real world. It is against the law to make an explosive device in the United States yet movies have explosions all the time. It is against the law and up to six months in jail in Texas to recklessly replace someone in danger of serious i jury. Movies however routinely place people in danger and that is why they are stunt people to fill in for actors although some actors do some of their own stunts. Start people often get injured, sometimes as much as breaking a bone. Why aren’t the directors and producers charged criminally? It is against the law to be reckless driving and can cost you a few months in the county jail in almost every state yet they film police chase scenes in several states on public streets yet the actors and stunt drivers don’t go to jail. Why is that?

You are comparing the real world with a fantasy land intentionally created where there are risks. During the filming of the Wizard of Oz, the wicked witch had her face catch on fire from the stunt where she appeared in munchkin land. She has some third-degree burns I believe and filming had to stop until she recovered. It was obviously dangerous and somebody screwed up. Should they have  gone to jail?

I have said in more than one post, Baldwin or someone else or multiple people might be charged. If they are they are. It goes by state law but you are comparing the real world with people who intentionally go into dangerous situations, many of whom are untrained (like actors) and rely on other people to do the right thing. 

[tvc184]

3 minutes ago, thetragichippy said:

I really enjoyed the way Donald Rumsfeld would reply to reporters that asked stupid questions or would repeat the same questions. In his day, that man was razor sharp with a slight humor to his responses. 

United States Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany and Sarah Huckabee Sanders had the same qualities.

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, baddog said:

I’ve made my point twice. That’s not and over to me. Does one have to be a “gun person” to know if the trigger is pulled it might go off? I could cock my fully loaded .45, lay it on the kitchen counter, and it would sit there for years without accidentally going off. Someone must pull the trigger. 
I was watching TV the other night and all of a sudden “BOOM”, my shotgun went off in the closet. lol

 My first post about Baldwin was due to his crappy attitude towards his daughter. If you have ever heard that phone conversation, you’d know he is a POS. I already said it was my vivid imagination.  And btw, where are the fuming liberals on this gun violence situation? I thought they didn’t miss a trick. If this was Jon Voight, they would be coming out of the woodwork. 

I think he’s a POS, too, for what it’s worth.  I just see this as a vastly different situation as most accidental shootings.  TVC does as well, and seeing as he just retired after 35+ years of law enforcement, and also seeing as he has a better grasp of law than basically anyone I’ve ever met, I’m going to defer to his opinion on the matter.  Sorry for my irritable response earlier, had some stuff going on at work while I was supposed to be on my break while I was trying to post.

[baddog]

36 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I think he’s a POS, too, for what it’s worth.  I just see this as a vastly different situation as most accidental shootings.  TVC does as well, and seeing as he just retired after 35+ years of law enforcement, and also seeing as he has a better grasp of law than basically anyone I’ve ever met, I’m going to defer to his opinion on the matter.  Sorry for my irritable response earlier, had some stuff going on at work while I was supposed to be on my break while I was trying to post.

Totally understand and apologies not needed. I hold no grudges. That stuff will kill you. I respect everyone’s opinion on here even though we may disagree, especially TVC. He has a way of bringing people back down to earth and knows his law up and down. One thing he has taught me is there are variances in laws from state to state. I found this article that covers New Mexico law. Not sure it will hold water, but it lets me know I am not alone in feeling the way I do. I guess if the director of Twilight Zone the Movie was acquitted of involuntary manslaughter in the death of Vic Morrow and two child actors, Baldwin will get a pass, but still face civil suits.

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[baddog]

and this….

Alec Baldwin’s criminal liability in 'Rust' movie shooting 'has not been ruled out,' legal expert suggests

 

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[bullets13]

14 minutes ago, baddog said:

and this….

Alec Baldwin’s criminal liability in 'Rust' movie shooting 'has not been ruled out,' legal expert suggests

 

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What I generally expect to happen is for the family of the deceased and the director to get a big chunk of money from him and the movie company in an undisclosed out of court settlement.

[tvc184]

59 minutes ago, baddog said:

and this….

Alec Baldwin’s criminal liability in 'Rust' movie shooting 'has not been ruled out,' legal expert suggests

 

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I watched that 20+ minute press conference. All they said was the standard, we have ruled nothing out which should be the correct answer. When you have not finished your investigation, how can you rule out something? 

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, baddog said:

Totally understand and apologies not needed. I hold no grudges. That stuff will kill you. I respect everyone’s opinion on here even though we may disagree, especially TVC. He has a way of bringing people back down to earth and knows his law up and down. One thing he has taught me is there are variances in laws from state to state. I found this article that covers New Mexico law. Not sure it will hold water, but it lets me know I am not alone in feeling the way I do. I guess if the director of Twilight Zone the Movie was acquitted of involuntary manslaughter in the death of Vic Morrow and two child actors, Baldwin will get a pass, but still face civil suits.

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These experts show a part of the problem in discussing this case. You have one Harvard law professor that says you have to show intent to criminally charge Baldwin and another who says intent is not required. The Harvard law professor is an idiot but is listed as an expert. I guess that’s true if you’re teaching at Harvard law but I’m wondering about that answer. I would assume that every state and I know Texas does, has a law that does not require intent to commit death.

In the press conference today it said what I have said all along, they were rehearsing a scene. I am going to guess that part of that scene had Baldwin looking toward the camera and firing a shot for dramatic effect. Unfortunately he was mistakenly handed what was supposed to be an unloaded gun or a gun with a blank charge but was in fact loaded with a live round.

So the question of the culpable mental state will probably come down to the definition of reckless or the definition of criminal negligence in New Mexico or whatever way they choose to describe how things happen. It is called Mens Rea which I think is Latin for “guilty mind”. 

Like always I will use Texas law as an example. Here is the definition quoted about criminal negligence. It is not just negligence which almost any accident is, it is criminal in nature.

A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

You really kind of have to note where is says deviate from standard care of an ordinary person….. under the circumstances…. as viewed from the actors standpoint. 

It is kind of interesting that Texas uses the word “actor” to mean criminal.

That is what I have been trying to explain. You have to put yourself in the position that the person is in that situation. I don’t care what someone would have done deer hunting and I don’t care what somebody would do at the shooting range or the Police Academy. This was on a movies set where actors are probably very likely to be handed guns and never check them. We can argue whether they should or not but that is a different issue than the law.  It has to be viewed from the actor’s standpoint.

That is not my interpretation, that is a quote from Texas law.

Is New Mexico law any different? I’m sure it is similar but the wording might leave open more possibilities. Maybe I’ll look it up later.

And I kind of consider myself an expert. Maybe they will quote me… 😂

[thetragichippy]

11 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

These experts show a part of the problem in discussing this case. You have one Harvard law professor that says you have to show intent to criminally charge Baldwin and another who says intent is not required. The Harvard law professor is an idiot but is listed as an expert. I guess that’s true if you’re teaching at Harvard law but I’m wondering about that answer. I would assume that every state and I know Texas does, has a law that does not require intent to commit death.

In the press conference today it said what I have said all along, they were rehearsing a scene. I am going to guess that part of that scene had Baldwin looking toward the camera and firing a shot for dramatic effect. Unfortunately he was mistakenly handed what was supposed to be an unloaded gun or a gun with a blank charge but was in fact loaded with a live round.

So the question of the culpable mental state will probably come down to the definition of reckless or the definition of criminal negligence in New Mexico or whatever way they choose to describe how things happen. It is called Mens Rea which I think is Latin for “guilty mind”. 

Like always I will use Texas law as an example. Here is the definition quoted about criminal negligence. It is not just negligence which almost any accident is, it is criminal in nature.

A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

You really kind of have to note where is says deviate from standard care of an ordinary person….. under the circumstances…. as viewed from the actors standpoint. 

It is kind of interesting that Texas uses the word “actor” to mean criminal.

That is what I have been trying to explain. You have to put yourself in the position that the person is in that situation. I don’t care what someone would have done deer hunting and I don’t care what somebody would do at the shooting range or the Police Academy. This was on a movies set where actors are probably very likely to be handed guns and never check them. We can argue whether they should or not but that is a different issue than the law.  It has to be viewed from the actor’s standpoint.

That is not my interpretation, that is a quote from Texas law.

Is New Mexico law any different? I’m sure it is similar but the wording might leave open more possibilities. Maybe I’ll look it up later.

And I kind of consider myself an expert. Maybe they will quote me… 😂

I would agree with the expert part….you have experience plus you research

[mat]

.

[tvc184]

9 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

I would agree with the expert part….you have experience plus you research

Thank you.

In another forum a guy kind of confronted me on his real world versus a movie set, which I think matters. He, like some people in this forum, was of the mindset that if you pointed a firearm, you were automatically guilty. I was thinking of a response and remembered another part of Texas law on defenses to prosecution.

Sec. 8.02. MISTAKE OF FACT.

(a) It is a defense to prosecution that the actor through mistake formed a reasonable belief about a matter of fact if his mistaken belief negated the kind of culpability required for commission of the offense.   
(b) Although an actor's mistake of fact may constitute a defense to the offense charged, he may nevertheless be convicted of any lesser included offense of which he would be guilty if the fact were as he believed.

It potentially could exonerate Baldwin depending on how movies are made and depending on state law. You can see in (a) that if a person formed a reasonable belief that would negate culpability, it is a defense of prosecution. In (b), even if it does not fit the most serious crime, you might be charged with a lower crime if that culpable mental state could be proven. I have asked this several times in different forums but again, what is normally done on a movie set? It very well might matter. If actors are often handed guns and they are not required to check them to see if it has dummy or live rounds, that would seem to fit (a). Would it be a reasonable belief by an actor who maybe hundreds of times done or seen other actors handed a gun and they do not check them because they believe an expert has cleared the weapon.

In such a scenario I believe it would definitely fit (a) as to a reasonable belief.

Even if a person used (b), that could reduce a murder charge in Texas down to Criminal Negligent Homicide which can be prosecuted as a misdemeanor with as little as one day in jail or a fine only.

[baddog]

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[baddog]

Well, it appears that I may not have been that far off with my “crazy” Baldwin assessment.

Alec Baldwin accused of playing 'Russian roulette' on 'Rust' set by Gloria Allred as she announces new lawsuit

 

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[tvc184]

3 hours ago, baddog said:

Well, it appears that I may not have been that far off with my “crazy” Baldwin assessment.

Alec Baldwin accused of playing 'Russian roulette' on 'Rust' set by Gloria Allred as she announces new lawsuit

 

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Gloria Allred is a bottom feeder but she obviously knows deep pockets and Russian roulette in this case being a metaphor. 

[baddog]

8 hours ago, tvc184 said:

Gloria Allred is a bottom feeder but she obviously knows deep pockets and Russian roulette in this case being a metaphor. 

Anything associated with Alec Baldwin has to be near the bottom. I know all about metaphors. Do you really think I thought he put the gun to his head? No, he was reckless with a loaded gun. “Always treat a gun as if it were loaded”. “Don’t point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot”. 

[baddog]

Seems I’m not the only one who feels this way….

John Schneider rails against Alec Baldwin for claiming he 'didn’t pull the trigger'

 

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[TxHoops]

On 10/27/2021 at 3:56 PM, thetragichippy said:

I really enjoyed the way Donald Rumsfeld would reply to reporters that asked stupid questions or would repeat the same questions. In his day, that man was razor sharp with a slight humor to his responses. 

Totally agree.  Loved that guy. 

[baddog]

Fellow actors say check the gun. Man, I wish I had thought of that. 
 

Alec Baldwin hits back at George Clooney's response to 'Rust' shooting: 'Good for you'

 

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[baddog]

Well, well, …..

 

Alec Baldwin, others 'responsible' for Halyna Hutchins' death in 'Rust' shooting, wrongful death lawsuit says

 

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[tvc184]

4 hours ago, baddog said:

Well, well, …..

 

Alec Baldwin, others 'responsible' for Halyna Hutchins' death in 'Rust' shooting, wrongful death lawsuit says

 

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NEWSFLASH: Lawyer claims someone is responsible!!

Obviously Baldwin and others are responsible. Baldwin pulled the trigger and someone else handed him a loaded gun.

I’m not a lawyer and didn’t sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night but I don’t think it took a law school doctorate to figure out that Baldwin and others were responsible.

[baddog]

8 hours ago, tvc184 said:

NEWSFLASH: Lawyer claims someone is responsible!!

Obviously Baldwin and others are responsible. Baldwin pulled the trigger and someone else handed him a loaded gun.

I’m not a lawyer and didn’t sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night but I don’t think it took a law school doctorate to figure out that Baldwin and others were responsible.

Gee, and I always thought that lawyers represented the people bringing the suit. Guess lawyers have powers I wasn’t aware of. 

[tvc184]

7 hours ago, baddog said:

Gee, and I always thought that lawyers represented the people bringing the suit. Guess lawyers have powers I wasn’t aware of. 

You obviously missed the point. 

[baddog]

1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

You obviously missed the point. 

You mean the “Captain Obvious”? lol

[baddog]

FBI forensic report concludes Alec Baldwin pulled trigger on 'Rust' set: report

 

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[tvc184]

2 hours ago, baddog said:

FBI forensic report concludes Alec Baldwin pulled trigger on 'Rust' set: report

 

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I didn’t know that was in question.

 I know that in criminal investigations you have to prove every point to determine if it is a crime. Saying “I know he did it” isn’t enough so tests are run. Sometimes it is just to confirm what is already known.