Sulphur Springs…/Faircloth hired

[MackLewis]

2 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I've seen PNG, under Doug Ethridge, beat teams that were more talented, physically and speed wise than PNG.  So, yes, it's possible.  Look, you are right, 90% of the coaches can't hang in State Championship-type category.  But, does that mean you stop looking?  If i'm going to pay a coach big bucks then much is expected!  

How long ago was that?   Has the landscape of high school football changed?

 

Is PNG a growing community like it was in the 60’s and 70’s?  Or is the community, like SE Texas as a whole is a bit of state of decline?

 

There are a lot of factors as to why present day PNG is not the PNG of the 60’s and 70’s.   Growth and talent pool is 2 of them.

[MackLewis]

9 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I've seen PNG, under Doug Ethridge, beat teams that were more talented, physically and speed wise than PNG.  So, yes, it's possible.  Look, you are right, 90% of the coaches can't hang in State Championship-type category.  But, does that mean you stop looking?  If i'm going to pay a coach big bucks then much is expected!  

How many years ago should Calallen have fired Danaher?

 

In what year between 1975 and 1998 should Newton have fired Curtis Barbay?

 

Jack Alvarez was at Kirbyville for 12 years.   He went to 2 title games, but should he have been fired for failing to win them.   What have they done since he’s left?   What did Kirbyville look like from 1988-2000 before he Coach A showed up?

 

Perspective and realistic expectations my man!!!

[ClassOf78IsGreat]

I’m sure coaches will line up to coach PNG wit the attitude that guy has. 

[MackLewis]

11 minutes ago, CoogsWompWomp said:

I’m sure coaches will line up to coach PNG wit the attitude that guy has. 

No kidding.   I’m not certain the NFL model of firing coaches will work at the high school level.    Wouldn’t want a bunch of Jerry Jones on my local school board firing coaches every 6 years. 

[PN-G bamatex]

18 minutes ago, CoogsWompWomp said:

I’m sure coaches will line up to coach PNG wit the attitude that guy has. 

 

4 minutes ago, MackLewis said:

No kidding.   I’m not certain the NFL model of firing coaches will work at the high school level.    Wouldn’t want a bunch of Jerry Jones on my local school board firing coaches every 6 years. 

Oh no, don't y'all associate him with us. Smitty (or whatever he's calling himself now) is a Nederland fan (except when it's time to replace a 50+ year old school).

[Razor]

He can't hang up the Etheridge thing...I think I stated pretty clearly that the circumstances have changed pretty dramatically since then...Etheridge was indeed a great coach, but I'm not certain that he would have experienced state title runs at png in today's environment

I also agree that this conversation is fruitless...my last reply to Reagan will be to answer his last question to me, is 12 years enough?

IMO, the question should NOT be can a coach make an SC run in any certain time period...what can a coach do with what he is given...for png, I think playoffs should certainly be a expectation each and every year and making at least the 2nd round could be considered a successful season, depending on what kind of team they have...example, given what they did this year and what they have returning from that next year, I should think getting at least to the 3rd round would be the expectation...barring injuries, anything short would be disappointing...I would think that this season would be considered overachieving since they were thought to be a struggle to even make the playoffs and went 3 rounds deep...overall, I would characterize Faircloth's time at png as a success...those who think otherwise may well get to find out soon, it sounds like, if it was or not? 

[ClassOf78IsGreat]

Zero coaches are coming into PNG and thinking they bout to win state. I promise you. And that doesn’t mean they will do a bad job. Just is what it is. 

[PNGFaithful]

Faircloths biggest downfall is his first couple years he brought in experienced assistants, but for some reason they all left. Over the past several years he hired young inexperienced coaches. Was it because he could control them?? 

[NHSBulldogFan]

On 1/22/2022 at 1:49 PM, PNGFaithful said:

If Faircloth leaves I want fresh blood. No one with ties here. 

that was Faircloth...

[Reagan]

45 minutes ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

that was Faircloth...

That was!  But it didn’t work out!  Doesn’t mean, though, going outside the system is/was wrong!

[NHSBulldogFan]

47 minutes ago, Reagan said:

That was!  But it didn’t work out!  Doesn’t mean, though, going outside the system is/was wrong!

This whole situation reminds me of the I.B. Griffith situation in the 1930s at Port Neches...schoolboard ran him off he got hired at Nederland and won several regional titles...I think Faircloth will do fine in Sulphur Springs if the reports are accurate 

[Eagleborn]

Good news for SS is Argyle and Melissa are moving up. Assuming they’d be thrown in old district 7. 

[outanup]

You can tie Bill Shoemaker on your best Jackass....But he aint winning the Kentucky Derby.

[Cougar14.2]

Never a good time to lose you coach, unless you want him gone, but right now would be an absolute awful time for PNG with the upcoming realignment. A lot of y'all are talking about what PNG can or can't do RIGHT NOW but are failing to look forward, like to February 3rd? 

Outside of FB Marshall and Liberty Hill, who will probably be moved to region 3 this realignment, who else would you point to in the southern half of the state in 5A-D2 that would be a hands down favorite over PNG next year? Maybe one of the Corpus schools in the semis? They already beat Montgomery who's losing their entire offense anyway, Brenham isn't what they once were, Huntsville is probably about to slide some and you watched a team you beat last year donkey stomp FB Marshall in bi-district. 

I said it four years ago when it happened but splitting 5A was a Godsend for SETX and other areas of the state where the growth is slow to stagnant. 6A is 6A, 5A-D1 is JV 6A for your growing suburban areas about to move up to the top class like Crosby and BH. However, 5A-D2 is made for schools that just opened like Lake Creek and ones that have "mature" populations like the SETX and East Texas 5A's.

I'm not saying PNG can win state or even the region but it's a mistake to think that they shouldn't be extremely competitive for the foreseeable future. Same goes for some others. 

[navydawg31]

18 minutes ago, Cougar14.2 said:

Never a good time to lose you coach, unless you want him gone, but right now would be an absolute awful time for PNG with the upcoming realignment. A lot of y'all are talking about what PNG can or can't do RIGHT NOW but are failing to look forward, like to February 3rd? 

Outside of FB Marshall and Liberty Hill, who will probably be moved to region 3 this realignment, who else would you point to in the southern half of the state in 5A-D2 that would be a hands down favorite over PNG next year? Maybe one of the Corpus schools in the semis? They already beat Montgomery who's losing their entire offense anyway, Brenham isn't what they once were, Huntsville is probably about to slide some and you watched a team you beat last year donkey stomp FB Marshall in bi-district. 

I said it four years ago when it happened but splitting 5A was a Godsend for SETX and other areas of the state where the growth is slow to stagnant. 6A is 6A, 5A-D1 is JV 6A for your growing suburban areas about to move up to the top class like Crosby and BH. However, 5A-D2 is made for schools that just opened like Lake Creek and ones that have "mature" populations like the SETX and East Texas 5A's.

I'm not saying PNG can win state or even the region but it's a mistake to think that they shouldn't be extremely competitive for the foreseeable future. Same goes for some others. 

I somewhat agree to this but that 5A Div 2 number is crazy high vs all the divisions. I mean from the smallest to the biggest is almost a 700 kid difference… with a 7A that number will obviously come down a lot and that’s when you will really see SETX benefit the most imo. 

[PN-G bamatex]

16 hours ago, PNGFaithful said:

Faircloths biggest downfall is his first couple years he brought in experienced assistants, but for some reason they all left. Over the past several years he hired young inexperienced coaches. Was it because he could control them?? 

I don't know which coaches you're specifically referring to, but I know two of the younger coaches. One graduated from PN-G a few years ahead of me, and I don't think he played under Faircloth. The other graduated with me and played for Faircloth in 2009 and 2010. Both of them are good guys.

I don't know what rumors have floated around that you might have heard. I don't see Coach Faircloth hiring former PN-G players an attempt to control anybody. I see it as him giving younger guys who played for PN-G a start in coaching. Plenty of coaches, including prior PN-G coaches, have done that kind of thing in the past. If memory serves, that's how Coach Burnett got his first assistant job, too.

[PN-G bamatex]

1 hour ago, Cougar14.2 said:

Never a good time to lose you coach, unless you want him gone, but right now would be an absolute awful time for PNG with the upcoming realignment. A lot of y'all are talking about what PNG can or can't do RIGHT NOW but are failing to look forward, like to February 3rd? 

Outside of FB Marshall and Liberty Hill, who will probably be moved to region 3 this realignment, who else would you point to in the southern half of the state in 5A-D2 that would be a hands down favorite over PNG next year? Maybe one of the Corpus schools in the semis? They already beat Montgomery who's losing their entire offense anyway, Brenham isn't what they once were, Huntsville is probably about to slide some and you watched a team you beat last year donkey stomp FB Marshall in bi-district. 

I said it four years ago when it happened but splitting 5A was a Godsend for SETX and other areas of the state where the growth is slow to stagnant. 6A is 6A, 5A-D1 is JV 6A for your growing suburban areas about to move up to the top class like Crosby and BH. However, 5A-D2 is made for schools that just opened like Lake Creek and ones that have "mature" populations like the SETX and East Texas 5A's.

I'm not saying PNG can win state or even the region but it's a mistake to think that they shouldn't be extremely competitive for the foreseeable future. Same goes for some others. 

You know, it's funny you say that. A couple other Austin insiders and I talk high school football a lot. There's an expectation inside the Capitol that 7A is coming, if not this realignment then the next. And a lot of those guys who pay attention and knew what PN-G had returning, felt like PN-G would be a powerhouse next season if the chips fall the right way in realignment. There was real potential on the horizon.

I'm not saying there's no chance it happens now. Faircloth brought PN-G its first undefeated regular season since 1977 during his first season at PN-G. We've got a great group of kids returning next year with a proven track record of beating the odds. But y'all know as well as I do that typically, the first season under a new coach is a bad one, even when he inherits a program in great shape like ours is.

All I can say is, if next season goes south, it's not on the boys. They fought hard for the PN-G program both on and off the field last year. If 2022 goes down as a bad season for PN-G, it's on the adults who bungled this thing.

[AggiesAreWe]

Tweet from Ashly Elam:

Confirmed: Port Neches-Groves Athletic Director/Head Football Coach Brandon Faircloth is being recommended for the same position at Sulphur Springs tonight. Faircloth is PNG’s all-time winningest coach at (102-51), advancing to the playoffs 12 out of his 13 seasons.

[AggiesAreWe]

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[Cougar14.2]

1 hour ago, navydawg31 said:

I somewhat agree to this but that 5A Div 2 number is crazy high vs all the divisions. I mean from the smallest to the biggest is almost a 700 kid difference… with a 7A that number will obviously come down a lot and that’s when you will really see SETX benefit the most imo. 

FB Marshall is the only "tough" team in the entire Houston area left in 5A-D2. That benefits PNG right now. You're right that 7A will probably get schools like Texas High into 5A-D1 but eventually you just have to beat people. Ned probably shouldn't have been lining up with Foster and George Ranch but it was Marshall and their 1,400 kids that did y'all the worst. SOC just won 5A-D2 with 1,400 kids. The "benefit" for PNG right now comes from the quality of the programs they get to avoid, Crosby, Manvel, Foster, Angleton, etc. Not because they get to avoid Houston Madison who has 300+ more kids than them but PNG would probably hammer anyway.  

[navydawg31]

22 minutes ago, Cougar14.2 said:

FB Marshall is the only "tough" team in the entire Houston area left in 5A-D2. That benefits PNG right now. You're right that 7A will probably get schools like Texas High into 5A-D1 but eventually you just have to beat people. Ned probably shouldn't have been lining up with Foster and George Ranch but it was Marshall and their 1,400 kids that did y'all the worst. SOC just won 5A-D2 with 1,400 kids. The "benefit" for PNG right now comes from the quality of the programs they get to avoid, Crosby, Manvel, Foster, Angleton, etc. Not because they get to avoid Houston Madison who has 300+ more kids than them but PNG would probably hammer anyway.  

You are exactly right, you won’t get any argument from me when nederland got throttled by Marshall, but that Nederland team wasn’t doing much. Some of Nederland’s great teams that maybe could do it, we went deep into the playoffs and lost to the team that was moving up next year/ already had the big school numbers on the first year of alignment. Someone on here a few years ago (can’t remember who) compared PNG and Nederland playoff opponents losses during a stretch and most of the teams we lost too moved up the next alignment…. 7A would help out on the playing field. 

[navydawg31]

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Only thing left is for him to say yes…

[Reagan]

20 hours ago, MackLewis said:

Newton better count their blessings that they didn’t consult with Reagan in the late 70’s, through the 80’s and 90’s.

In 1974 Newton won state, only to have Coach Lyndee Thompson leave to go to another school.   So they promote the offensive coordinator for the 1975 season.   It took Newton 23 years to win another state championship.  So according to Reagan, Curtis Barbay, the 8th all-time winningest coach in the state of Texas woulda been canned in the mid-80’s for not delivering a state title.

 

Other schools like Hampshire-Fannett has done what you advocate.   HF had UIL hall-of-fame coach Les Koenning, who is one of the most respected coaches in the state of Texas, all time, as their head coach.  In 1974, HF was #1 in the state.   They lose to #2 Newton (see above) in the 1st round of the playoffs.

In 1975, HF was #1 again, only to lose in the 4th round, to the eventual state runner-ups.    So in 2 years Les Koenning went 23-2, and people in the community were up in arms, and he didn’t get renewed.   HF has never sniffed that success again.

 

Winning a state title is much harder than you make it out to be.   Sometimes perspective is hard to come by and keep.  
 

Ask Randy Allen at Highland Park… he didn’t win a title at Brownwood, following Gordon Wood.   He also didn’t win one at Abilene Cooper.   Turns out he knows how to coach despite not winning a title.

 

Same with Phil Danaher and countless others.

First of all, let me say Doug Ethridge spanked Les Koenning in the Astrodome during a playoff run.  Another fact!  

Now, With Newton and Barbay:  There are no guarantees.  True I would have missed that one.  But, that's like 1% of the total.  The point is:  Do you let a coach stay there 30 years with the "hope" that he may start winning a state title?  Again, not me.  I miss a few along the way.  But that percentage is small.  Why?  Because there are not that many state championship-type coaches out there. 

Now Phil Danaher is an interesting situation:   I'm pretty sure he ran a respectable program through the years.  But -- one has to wonder why he couldn't bring it to the next level.  My thought, he's not one of the 10% out there that could.  But if the taxpayers, fan base and administration was happy going a couple of rounds in the playoffs and then going home, well, more power to them!  Again, that's where they set the bar!

Now a little speculation and a fact:  Concerning Faircloth:  Does anyone think that if he took over at Carthage right now that within 7 years he could win a State Title and replicate what Surratt has done?  That's the speculation part.  Now the fact:  Before Surratt got there -- no one did!!  Was he just so lucky that the talent only showed up at Carthage when he did??!!  I don't think any one here can honestly believe that!!

[Reagan]

PNG has had an excellent opportunity handed to them.  My advise is to take their time.  No rush.  It should work out for them, unless agendas are involved.  Someone has already stated here that they have 2 in mind.  But no names were stated.  I would have to see who these are before I could make positive or negative comment.  Again -- nothing personal, just the facts!

[Stattrax]

Well, I can say It now. I told you so……. No need to argue on the next coach. The 2 finalists are names we all know. BF did his time, although I’ve never been a fan, I hate to see his kid not finish up along with 80% of the starters back. If anyone for one second thinks he is leaving because he wants to, your crazy. 80% of your team back, fresh off a 3rd round, with realignment in our favor…. Use common sense folks. Shout out to him for bringing in offense. Let’s see how this all unfolds now. If you want the results now, just read my old posts.