Hardin-Jefferson 65 Hamshire-Fannett 50/FINAL

[5GallonBucket]

8 minutes ago, Cardinal 1 said:

Blonde head kid scored in the first half. Only two players to score in the 2nd was #5 and #23, both had and 1s. The only subs he made that was bad was taking his PG off the floor for most of the 3rd and his best shooter #3 for the majority of the 2nd half. The blonde head kid is a shooter as well and should have played more. Our liabilities are 2 players who consistently refuse to play team ball while on the floor and who cause turmoil in the locker room by blaming others. The rest of the team leaves it on the floor, win or lose. 3 of our starters were dominating the first half by moving the ball and exploiting mismatches. The 2nd half happened because we had a 4th starter who was unhappy with his point production and took upon himself to change that turning the ball over 4 straight times and killing the offensive flow we had. He literally was HJs best player/defender in the 2nd half 🤷🏾‍♂️🤣🤦🏾‍♂️. HJ has guys that believe in each other and sticks to the game plan. We a couple players who will throw fits and/or yell at their teammates and coach if they not playing well or scoring. It's crazy! 

That’s a simple fix that should ve been addressed pre district.  

[Cardinal 1]

48 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

That’s a simple fix that should ve been addressed pre district.  

I fully agree. As a varsity coach of 10 years myself when you have a player who gets a tech for cursing at the ref and then a flagrant foul that was intentional and almost started a fight all in the first half, he sits for the remainder of that half. Then comes out in the 3rd and has 4 straight turnovers because he doesn't want to pass the ball, he sits for the rest of the game and possibly loses his starting position. Especially when I find out he tried to start a fight with an HJ player after the game. He might be off my team period. Heck Coach Davis even talked to the kid right after buzzer to give him some encouragement and he comes out the locker room after getting dress and tries to fight HJs best player, cursing at him and yelling. 

[KF89]

34 minutes ago, Cardinal 1 said:

I fully agree. As a varsity coach of 10 years myself when you have a player who gets a tech for cursing at the ref and then a flagrant foul that was intentional and almost started a fight all in the first half, he sits for the remainder of that half. Then comes out in the 3rd and has 4 straight turnovers because he doesn't want to pass the ball, he sits for the rest of the game and possibly loses his starting position. Especially when I find out he tried to start a fight with an HJ player after the game. He might be off my team period. Heck Coach Davis even talked to the kid right after buzzer to give him some encouragement and he comes out the locker room after getting dress and tries to fight HJs best player, cursing at him and yelling. 

Send him to the track coach, IMO no more basketball if that is how he acted in a big game & after.

[no-look]

Has to be corrected but you have to wonder what goes on in kids homes and person life these days. 

[5GallonBucket]

7 minutes ago, no-look said:

Has to be corrected but you have to wonder what goes on in kids homes and person life these days. 

Yes times are a lil different with the pandemic and people losing jobs. But kids and home life has been going on for a long time.

has to have consequences in order to learn. I believe in 2nd chances maybe even 3 if a player has a bad home life and has no structure or father figure.  But if he keeps making same mistake over and over and hurts his team. He himself is not willing to make a change ….sorry buddy but your done.

 

[Jerry West]

HF just ran into the tradition of a great program and an always well coached HJ team.  @Cardinal 1 you are all over the place.  Earlier in the year you stated HJ only had 1 player and pretty much stated the rest were scrubs/rec ball players.  I saw last night two teams, one being HJ that has basketball players meaning they can make adjustments as the game goes on.  HF has hoopers who could not adjust when HJ switched from man to an extended zone.  That along with a mixture of a team put together through recruitment can't figure out how to play with each other.  At the end of the day HJ will be good at basketball next year as well and HF well they will be HF.      

[whsalum]

8 minutes ago, Jerry West said:

HF just ran into the tradition of a great program and an always well coached HJ team.  @Cardinal 1 you are all over the place.  Earlier in the year you stated HJ only had 1 player and pretty much stated the rest were scrubs/rec ball players.  I saw last night two teams, one being HJ that has basketball players meaning they can make adjustments as the game goes on.  HF has hoopers who could not adjust when HJ switched from man to an extended zone.  That along with a mixture of a team put together through recruitment can't figure out how to play with each other.  At the end of the day HJ will be good at basketball next year as well and HF well they will be HF.      

I made this analogy last summer during predictions and my basketball IQ was questioned😂😂

[whsalum]

2 hours ago, Cardinal 1 said:

Blonde head kid scored in the first half. Only two players to score in the 2nd was #5 and #23, both had and 1s. The only subs he made that was bad was taking his PG off the floor for most of the 3rd and his best shooter #3 for the majority of the 2nd half. The blonde head kid is a shooter as well and should have played more. Our liabilities are 2 players who consistently refuse to play team ball while on the floor and who cause turmoil in the locker room by blaming others. The rest of the team leaves it on the floor, win or lose. 3 of our starters were dominating the first half by moving the ball and exploiting mismatches. The 2nd half happened because we had a 4th starter who was unhappy with his point production and took upon himself to change that turning the ball over 4 straight times and killing the offensive flow we had. He literally was HJs best player/defender in the 2nd half 🤷🏾‍♂️🤣🤦🏾‍♂️. HJ has guys that believe in each other and sticks to the game plan. We a couple players who will throw fits and/or yell at their teammates and coach if they not playing well or scoring. It's crazy! 

As easy as it would be to blame this loss on one kid that’s just not the case.  HF has players that seem to consistently disappear in big games. Last night was a perfect example. 

[whsalum]

It seems like these game threads always turn into a discussion as to how HF figured out a way to lose. This one should be about how HJ found a way to win. The Davis’s turned the tide coming out of the locker room for the second half, Clay by making some big time adjustments on the defensive scheme and Clayton by filling it up from DEEP!! That was the spark the Hawks needed and the que for Sears and Melvo to take this game over. The Samaha kid as well as several others gave the Hawks some big time minutes off the bench. 

[bullets13]

14 hours ago, Cardinal 1 said:

If you were at this game, it was clear as day why we lost. It was a great game for about 2qts and then one player on our team decided that he needed to no longer play team ball and turn the ball over 4 straight trips. Then our coach decided it was a good idea to sit our all region PG and our best shooter for most of the 3rd qrt. Our two best scorers and barely touched the ball after dominating the first half because their ALL REGION PG WAS ON THE BENCH! Who by the way was cooking as well in the first half! They lost because of a selfish player (who by the way had a tech and a flagrant foul that resulted into 4pts in the first half, then tried to fight Sears after coming out the locker room when RJ came to shake his hand) and horrible subbing. Hats off to HJ and Coach Davis for a perfect game plan in the 2nd half forcing the ball into that player's hand and watching it perfectly unfold. His guys came out and smelled blood in the waters. Sears was amazing, Isaiah Malbrough was the game MVP for me. HJ played team ball in the second half, HF didn't. This lost was solely on our coach unable to control one of his players and not benching him, along with bad subbing

That explains the third quarter.  what about the 4th?    I'm sure there's a reason for these players being benched.  

[Cardinal 1]

36 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

That explains the third quarter.  what about the 4th?    As for the PG, there's no doubt he's a quality player, and he's not being benched because of his play.  I can only think of one other reason that he'd be on the bench.  I hope his dad isn't filling him with too much of the expertise that he spreads online, leading him to say some things he shouldn't, or making him feel like he's too good to be replaced or is smarter than his coach.  Coach Kenebrew is no dummy.  He's putting these players on the bench for a reason.  

He got in the 4th qtr, but unfortunately so did the one player who didn't want to follow the game plan. He and another player who doesn't start kept turning the ball over. You can't beat a defense by yourself so you have to pass the ball. Unfortunately when the ball got in the hands of a certain player, that's where it stayed for either a turnover or bad shot. We did get a couole good looks down the stretch for #23 and #5 but they were far and in between and not enough. He wasn't benched, he was subbed out at a bad time of the game and sat too long. HJ was making a run due to turnovers and instead of just subbing out the problem player, our pg came out as well. HJ then went on a run taking the lead. He sat the remainder of the 3rd. Then at the beginning of the 4th all but 1 starter was out of the game and HJ scored 6 straight points off turnovers. 3 starters were put back in, but one of them should have never touched the floor again.

[Cardinal 1]

3 hours ago, Jerry West said:

HF just ran into the tradition of a great program and an always well coached HJ team.  @Cardinal 1 you are all over the place.  Earlier in the year you stated HJ only had 1 player and pretty much stated the rest were scrubs/rec ball players.  I saw last night two teams, one being HJ that has basketball players meaning they can make adjustments as the game goes on.  HF has hoopers who could not adjust when HJ switched from man to an extended zone.  That along with a mixture of a team put together through recruitment can't figure out how to play with each other.  At the end of the day HJ will be good at basketball next year as well and HF well they will be HF.      

HJ came out from the jump in an extend zone and played man halfcourt the entire game, they didn't change anything. HF just imploded. You only saw one angle of the game, not what was going on in the locker room or bench at the half or the game. As hard as it may seem for fans, as a coach I can tell you one player can destroy your teams chemistry and kill their momentum. That's what happened. That one player refused to dump the ball down low to the post, set off the ball screens that got shooters open, and took the ball out of the PGs hands. All that was happening in the 1st half which is why HF was winning. HJs press was ineffective when the ball was moving properly. Matter of fact that one player is the only guard who got trapped by the press the entire game and turned the ball over. All others passed out of it. 

[Cardinal 1]

3 hours ago, whsalum said:

It seems like these game threads always turn into a discussion as to how HF figured out a way to lose. This one should be about how HJ found a way to win. The Davis’s turned the tide coming out of the locker room for the second half, Clay by making some big time adjustments on the defensive scheme and Clayton by filling it up from DEEP!! That was the spark the Hawks needed and the que for Sears and Melvo to take this game over. The Samaha kid as well as several others gave the Hawks some big time minutes off the bench. 

I believe I stated in my first comment about how HJ came out and executed a perfect game plan of making sure that particular player got the ball. They scored 4 straight times off him at the beginning of the 3rd 🤷🏾‍♂️. 

[whsalum]

18 minutes ago, Cardinal 1 said:

HJ came out from the jump in an extend zone and played man halfcourt the entire game, they didn't change anything. HF just imploded. You only saw one angle of the game, not what was going on in the locker room or bench at the half or the game. As hard as it may seem for fans, as a coach I can tell you one player can destroy your teams chemistry and kill their momentum. That's what happened. That one player refused to dump the ball down low to the post, set off the ball screens that got shooters open, and took the ball out of the PGs hands. All that was happening in the 1st half which is why HF was winning. HJs press was ineffective when the ball was moving properly. Matter of fact that one player is the only guard who got trapped by the press the entire game and turned the ball over. All others passed out of it. 

Once again you watched a different game. I’m not sure a stint at Tekoa makes you an expert although you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. The trap that was used in the 2nd half was a different look and worked on more than one occasion on different players. Give credit where it’s due . With both teams hitting on all cylinders HJ has the best club this year. I gotta think these conversations make things tough in the HF locker room. On a different note HF looks to have a really nice JV club. Some of those kids , if eligible, could play on the varsity. 

[Cardinal 1]

3 hours ago, Jerry West said:

HF just ran into the tradition of a great program and an always well coached HJ team.  @Cardinal 1 you are all over the place.  Earlier in the year you stated HJ only had 1 player and pretty much stated the rest were scrubs/rec ball players.  I saw last night two teams, one being HJ that has basketball players meaning they can make adjustments as the game goes on.  HF has hoopers who could not adjust when HJ switched from man to an extended zone.  That along with a mixture of a team put together through recruitment can't figure out how to play with each other.  At the end of the day HJ will be good at basketball next year as well and HF well they will be HF.      

First off you sound very ignorant and like a complete hater who has no clue how anything went. Every kid on HF has been there 3 years or more, including my kid who went HF elementary before attending the charter school I worked at grade 5th-10th and transferred back to the district for a better academic opportunity in scholarships. He's a 4.0 national honor society member who wanted to graduate with a larger class instead of one that only had 20 kids in. Graduating valedictorian out of 20 doesn't look as good as being among the top percentile of 130. That's why he moved BACK to HFISD. Which was the plan before any of the success started at HF. Funny how HJ JV got mauled by HFs but the school is recruiting right? Ok 

[bullets13]

6 minutes ago, Cardinal 1 said:

First off you sound very ignorant and like a complete hater who has no clue how anything went. Every kid on HF has been there 3 years or more, including my kid who went HF elementary before attending the charter school I worked at grade 5th-10th and transferred back to the district for a better academic opportunity in scholarships. He's a 4.0 national honor society member who wanted to graduate with a larger class instead of one that only had 20 kids in. Graduating valedictorian out of 20 doesn't look as good as being among the top percentile of 130. That's why he moved BACK to HFISD. Which was the plan before any of the success started at HF. Funny how HJ JV got mauled by HFs but the school is recruiting right? Ok 

I'm fairly confident this man has considerably more basketball and coaching experience than you.  Then again, he may not be who I think he is (but I'm fairly sure it's who I think it is).

[Cardinal 1]

15 minutes ago, whsalum said:

Once again you watched a different game. I’m not sure a stint at Tekoa makes you an expert although you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. The trap that was used in the 2nd half was a different look and worked on more than one occasion on different players. Give credit where it’s due . With both teams hitting on all cylinders HJ has the best club this year. I gotta think these conversations make things tough in the HF locker room. On a different note GF looks to have a really nice JV club. Some of those kids , if eligible, could play on the varsity. 

Nah I just have access to the game footage and look at live from a coaches perspective not a fan. And being that I've coached in 3 state title games at Tekoa, ran/coached an AAU organization that encompassed players from 3 different countries boys and girls, and have multiple players that have gotten free educational opportunities that I coached and trained gives me a pretty good idea of how to break down a game. Not to mentioned every main player on both sides have been in my car on our way to an AAU tournament, training, practice, or camp. Many of them since middle school. There's nothing I wouldn't do for any of those kids on both sides. Truth be told, my son spent more time in a HJ gym over the past 6 years training and practicing in the summer then any other 🤷🏾‍♂️. HF JV are mostly Fr and Soph. Their Fr. squad is pretty good as well. They have a few players that will make a lot of noise the next couple years.

[Cardinal 1]

3 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I'm fairly confident this man has considerably more basketball and coaching experience than you.  Then again, he may not be who I think he is (but I'm fairly sure it's who I think it is).

The statement you highlighted had nothing to do with basketball experience or knowledge, just simply someone repeating ignorant rumors about certain kids. 

[Jerry West]

@Cardinal 1 Your keen eye would have noticed in the second half HJ stayed in a zone.  They may have ran it as a matchup zone at times but still a zone.  More importantly as a Coach/Professional I am surprised that you continuously call kids out here on that.  All coaches know that's a no, no.  Even though you're not saying names numbers and the tech everyone knows who you're talking about.  Lastly competing with Tekoa at the State level is a lot different than UIL and is not even close.  AAU depending what Org a lot of those teams are daddy and mommy ball who coach with dadd/mommy eyes.  That does not mean there are not good Mom's and Dad's that coach but many never coach again after their sons or daughters move on.

[Cardinal 1]

21 minutes ago, Jerry West said:

@Cardinal 1 Your keen eye would have noticed in the second half HJ stayed in a zone.  They may have ran it as a matchup zone at times but still a zone.  More importantly as a Coach/Professional I am surprised that you continuously call kids out here on that.  All coaches know that's a no, no.  Even though you're not saying names numbers and the tech everyone knows who you're talking about.  Lastly competing with Tekoa at the State level is a lot different than UIL and is not even close.  AAU depending what Org a lot of those teams are daddy and mommy ball who coach with dadd/mommy eyes.  That does not mean there are not good Mom's and Dad's that coach but many never coach again after their sons or daughters move on.

Coaches call out players actions, attitudes, and play all the time. How else do you think players get assessed or recruited? Speaking on your own players openly is a no no my friend. I don't coach at HF and as far as HJ players, I believe I've given them their credit for a well played game and Coach Davis for executing a solid second half plan. Keep in mind, in 4 months for several of these players they will no longer be considered kids at all but young men. There's no protection from criticism, consequences of actions, or mulligans for mistakes. Certain emotional actions can cost you your life or your freedom. I don't coach just to win games and trophies, but to save lives. So yes I'm very critical when a kid allows their emotions to go to far because I know where that can lead as I personally have 3 former players serving a total of 100 years in prison behind their emotional responses. 

 

[Jerry West]

54 minutes ago, Cardinal 1 said:

Coaches call out players actions, attitudes, and play all the time. How else do you think players get assessed or recruited? Speaking on your own players openly is a no no my friend. I don't coach at HF and as far as HJ players, I believe I've given them their credit for a well played game and Coach Davis for executing a solid second half plan. Keep in mind, in 4 months for several of these players they will no longer be considered kids at all but young men. There's no protection from criticism, consequences of actions, or mulligans for mistakes. Certain emotional actions can cost you your life or your freedom. I don't coach just to win games and trophies, but to save lives. So yes I'm very critical when a kid allows their emotions to go to far because I know where that can lead as I personally have 3 former players serving a total of 100 years in prison behind their emotional responses. 

 

Coaches call out players all the time, at practice/locker-room/games.  The social media public forum is not the place for it IMO.  Yes there is more important things than basketball and getting these young men ready for the real world is the end state.  I don't have a dog in this fight but I have been in a lot of gyms over the years and I know athletes are not only influenced by the coach on the side line these days.  Many parents, AAU coaches, grandparents, etc can set the tone in a gym like it or not (Yes I do know where their head should be).

At this point I know the young men at HF do the playing on Tuesday and Friday nights but I would be curious how many of your post are used as locker room material for other teams as well as used in HF locker rooms to continue an obvious divide.  If I had a son on this team I would probably handle it differently than a forum that SETEX and surrounding areas look at often.  More importantly I know some college coaches that look at this forum as well.  I know they can put 2 + 2 together and I wonder how many of them want to deal with these social media post in their program for 4 years.  Good luck this season, I hope you guys get it back on track 

[whsalum]

3 hours ago, Cardinal 1 said:

Nah I just have access to the game footage and look at live from a coaches perspective not a fan. And being that I've coached in 3 state title games at Tekoa, ran/coached an AAU organization that encompassed players from 3 different countries boys and girls, and have multiple players that have gotten free educational opportunities that I coached and trained gives me a pretty good idea of how to break down a game. Not to mentioned every main player on both sides have been in my car on our way to an AAU tournament, training, practice, or camp. Many of them since middle school. There's nothing I wouldn't do for any of those kids on both sides. Truth be told, my son spent more time in a HJ gym over the past 6 years training and practicing in the summer then any other 🤷🏾‍♂️. HF JV are mostly Fr and Soph. Their Fr. squad is pretty good as well. They have a few players that will make a lot of noise the next couple years.

This response pretty much sums up my position. Carry on coach . 

[Cardinal 1]

3 hours ago, Jerry West said:

Coaches call out players all the time, at practice/locker-room/games.  The social media public forum is not the place for it IMO.  Yes there is more important things than basketball and getting these young men ready for the real world is the end state.  I don't have a dog in this fight but I have been in a lot of gyms over the years and I know athletes are not only influenced by the coach on the side line these days.  Many parents, AAU coaches, grandparents, etc can set the tone in a gym like it or not (Yes I do know where their head should be).

At this point I know the young men at HF do the playing on Tuesday and Friday nights but I would be curious how many of your post are used as locker room material for other teams as well as used in HF locker rooms to continue an obvious divide.  If I had a son on this team I would probably handle it differently than a forum that SETEX and surrounding areas look at often.  More importantly I know some college coaches that look at this forum as well.  I know they can put 2 + 2 together and I wonder how many of them want to deal with these social media post in their program for 4 years.  Good luck this season, I hope you guys get it back on track 

This is a sports page forum, not really social media but I get what you're trying say. I gave an observation based on facts of the game as did others. We disagreed on certain points which people do. Some where there to watch HJ win and focused on how HJ played, I focused on how HF performed and played. Two perspectives based on personal bias which brings good debate. Only betas get in their feelings about disagreements as real men know we not going to always agree especially in a rivalry games. I teach both my sons to set their own tone in all things. If you allow anyone's words to alter your state of mind then you have given power of your destiny over to them. I also teach them criticism of your worst is always valid and should be heard loud and clear in order to correct it. Your feelings mean absolutely nothing to the grind of this world as a man. But thank you for the talk. Blessing and peace unto you and yours 💯

[OVER THE HILL]

Cardinal 1 is not wrong.  You have different factions on the team going against each other.  When one is scoring the others get jealous and won't pass to them.  One of the kids who would be sitting the bench had his parents complain and all of a sudden he is playing more than kids who should be playing.  We went from an over controlling coach to a laid back coach who won't get rid of the problem kids or sit them down.  The coach this year is a good guy but he can't handle the problem children on the team. Those kids have caused the team to be in disarray and the season all but lost.   The team has talent but anyone on here can tell you that if you don't play like a team then you will get beat by good teams. This is not a team.  Last nights game proved it.  Talent can beat lesser teams but when they play teams that play together they can be beat.  Look at last years Huffman team, Silsbee or this years HJ team those kids play as a team consistently and their records each year show that.

[BEARCPA]

11 hours ago, OVER THE HILL said:

Cardinal 1 is not wrong.  You have different factions on the team going against each other.  When one is scoring the others get jealous and won't pass to them.  One of the kids who would be sitting the bench had his parents complain and all of a sudden he is playing more than kids who should be playing.  We went from an over controlling coach to a laid back coach who won't get rid of the problem kids or sit them down.  The coach this year is a good guy but he can't handle the problem children on the team. Those kids have caused the team to be in disarray and the season all but lost.   The team has talent but anyone on here can tell you that if you don't play like a team then you will get beat by good teams. This is not a team.  Last nights game proved it.  Talent can beat lesser teams but when they play teams that play together they can be beat.  Look at last years Huffman team, Silsbee or this years HJ team those kids play as a team consistently and their records each year show that.

Yeah this all comes back to the coach IMO. Any coach worth his salt would have these issues (both with his team and their parents) straightened out before district play in one way or another.