Tarkington Open

[SherriffReesie]

47 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

They were also horrible before a major population shift to the area.  Carthage and Aledo are in the same boat as far as a major influence of population growth, new business, and new money.  Just as schools can go from dominant to irrelevant.. so can the opposite happen.  In fact.. it absolutely happens.  Carthage and Aledo have some of the nicest facilities in the state coupled with communities willing to pour as much money as possible into the athletics program.  Is Tarkington willing to do that? 

I can tell you that they are not willing to pour anything into athletics. The weight room and fieldhouse are some of the absolute worst facilities in the area. The visiting team uses the middle school locker room that is even older than the high school locker room.

A buddy of mine used to work there and they tell a story of a family of rats that fell out of the roof in the locker room one day. Unless they are willing to actually make those improvements to those then nothing will change. They have been saying they were going to build a new fieldhouse/weight room for almost 10 years now and it still hasn't happened. Having that poor of facilities makes those "on the fence" kids not want to participate. Give them something they can take pride in and that is how you will get participation up. 

I was told that before Covid hit, they actually had some blueprints from a contractor of a new field house but once Covid came, those plans disappeared. You have to have something the kids can take pride in to make them want to be in athletics and want to go to the weight room. The weight room is the old bus barn and the floor is 2 different heights. 

[Guest mrtomcat]

16 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Read the rest of the comment.  New natural gas discoveries in certain parts of central and east Texas have resulted in great things for a lot of school districts.  Carthage's indoor practice facility, turf stadium, state of the art weight room, jumbotron, etc.. just appeared out of nowhere?  Those types of perks available to athletes and students bring/keep great players and great coaches. 

by the way.  i work in oil and gas and i spent 10 years working in panola county. 

[oldschool2]

5 minutes ago, mrtomcat said:

I assume the old oilfield businesses in carthage texas that have been around for 60+ years decided to finally invest into the ISD.  very few new pipeline, oilfield drilling, or startup companies new to carthage.  Perhaps a few of them had children, decided to hunker down in carthage and invest in their childrens future

I wasn't there when the facilities were built.. but I'm pretty sure they're more recent than 60 years.

[oldschool2]

9 minutes ago, SherriffReesie said:

I can tell you that they are not willing to pour anything into athletics. The weight room and fieldhouse are some of the absolute worst facilities in the area. The visiting team uses the middle school locker room that is even older than the high school locker room.

A buddy of mine used to work there and they tell a story of a family of rats that fell out of the roof in the locker room one day. Unless they are willing to actually make those improvements to those then nothing will change. They have been saying they were going to build a new fieldhouse/weight room for almost 10 years now and it still hasn't happened. Having that poor of facilities makes those "on the fence" kids not want to participate. Give them something they can take pride in and that is how you will get participation up. 

I was told that before Covid hit, they actually had some blueprints from a contractor of a new field house but once Covid came, those plans disappeared. You have to have something the kids can take pride in to make them want to be in athletics and want to go to the weight room. The weight room is the old bus barn and the floor is 2 different heights. 

Scratch the weight room.. I'm thinking of Tatum.  Carthage still has a first class playing field and practice facility.  Last time I checked those were part of the facilities. 

[Guest mrtomcat]

22 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Scratch the weight room.. I'm thinking of Tatum.  Carthage still has a first class playing field and practice facility.  Last time I checked those were part of the facilities. 

carthage facilities are nice but not new or state of the art by comparison.  the one thing that separates carthage from most is the indoor facility in my opinion but overall, the football field, weight room, baseball/softball complex are just "okay"

[oldschool2]

8 minutes ago, mrtomcat said:

carthage facilities are nice but not new or state of the art by comparison.  the one thing that separates carthage from most is the indoor facility in my opinion but overall, the football field, weight room, baseball/softball complex are just "okay"

The indoor practice facility is something that most of the state doesn't have.  And their turf field is equipped with a $100K+ screen.. if that's ok, then a vast majority of the state would aspire to meet your definition of ok. 

[Guest mrtomcat]

7 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

The indoor practice facility is something that most of the state doesn't have.  And their turf field is equipped with a $100K+ screen.. if that's ok, then a vast majority of the state would aspire to meet your definition of ok. 

come on man.  you lost me at "carthage population growing like aledo"

yes the jumbotron is state of the art and the indoor facility is superb

i'm talking about the overall facilities itself, not being in the top 20 in 4a alone.

do you know when these upgrades were made ?  let me give you a hint, around the time surratt showed up

 

[oldschool2]

4 minutes ago, mrtomcat said:

come on man.  you lost me at "carthage population growing like aledo"

yes the jumbotron is state of the art and the indoor facility is superb

i'm talking about the overall facilities itself, not being in the top 20 in 4a alone.

do you know when these upgrades were made ?  let me give you a hint, around the time surratt showed up

 

I didn't say their population was growing like Aledo. I said "as far as a major influence of population growth, new business, and new money".  Three separate entities but obviously not all three playing a factor in the case of Carthage.  However, the upgrades were definitely made and this level of winning happened pretty close to that.  Did it not?  Even still.. one of multiple variables playing into Carthage's unheard of dominance in high school football over the last decade+.

The reasons why Carthage has done what they did can be argued until blue in the face, doesn't negate the fact that schools will try to replicate it but fail.  There's still a common factor with Carthage, Aledo, Tarkington,.. some of the schools I just listed have had / will have skill kids go on to play big time D1 football.  Tarkington does not at the moment.  There are steps needed to be taken in order for schools such as Tarkington to get on the track of consistent success.  Even in doing so, it will take time.  Will the patience of parents/community allow for the growing pains that inevitably happen during this required time?  We'll see.  Just know this.. Surratt and Buchanan will be listed with the greatest coaches to have ever worn a whistle in Texas High School Football, but they couldn't go to most schools in the state for a decade and replicate what has been done in Carthage and Aledo.  Even if they went together.  

[89Falcon]

7 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

I didn't say their population was growing like Aledo. I said "as far as a major influence of population growth, new business, and new money".  Three separate entities but obviously not all three playing a factor in the case of Carthage.  However, the upgrades were definitely made and this level of winning happened pretty close to that.  Did it not?  Even still.. one of multiple variables playing into Carthage's unheard of dominance in high school football over the last decade+.

The reasons why Carthage has done what they did can be argued until blue in the face, doesn't negate the fact that schools will try to replicate it but fail.  There's still a common factor with Carthage, Aledo, Tarkington,.. some of the schools I just listed have had / will have skill kids go on to play big time D1 football.  Tarkington does not at the moment.  There are steps needed to be taken in order for schools such as Tarkington to get on the track of consistent success.  Even in doing so, it will take time.  Will the patience of parents/community allow for the growing pains that inevitably happen during this required time?  We'll see.  Just know this.. Surratt and Buchanan will be listed with the greatest coaches to have ever worn a whistle in Texas High School Football, but they couldn't go to most schools in the state for a decade and replicate what has been done in Carthage and Aledo.  Even if they went together.  

The "patience" of Job would be insufficient for Tarkington to develop into a winning program.  

[oldschool2]

1 minute ago, 89Falcon said:

Job lacked enough "patience" for Tarkington to develop into a winning program.  

A consistent coaching staff is a fraction of a fraction of what's necessary.  

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, mrtomcat said:

by the way.  i work in oil and gas and i spent 10 years working in panola county. 

Thanks for the info.  It's always good when something is brought up that we have input from someone that's actually been involved in it.  Let me give an analogy:  It's like we are having a topic debate/discussion on high school bands.  95-98% of this forum, including me, has no first hand knowledge of playing in the high school band.  So, for decent and somewhat expert opinions, I would defer to someone that has been involved in the band.  Because otherwise, any other opinions are from those that only knows about the band,  is what they've seen as a stand dweller.   Again, thanks!

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, 89Falcon said:

The "patience" of Job would be insufficient for Tarkington to develop into a winning program.  

So, I'll give it 10 years.  Within this time frame, and they stay there that long, you don't think Surratt, Buchanan, or Briles could bring a State Title.  Remember now, Briles did it with a bad situation at Stephenville.  I read where it said, " Briles... took over a program down on luck and numbers."  In 3 years he went 13-2.  And in 6 years he won his first of 4 State Titles.   I guess it could have been the facilities.  Or the artificial turf.  Or the natural gas boom.  Or something new.  NOT!  None of these things happened.  But we know what it was!   So, how is this any different?

[89Falcon]

32 minutes ago, Reagan said:

So, I'll give it 10 years.  Within this time frame, and they stay there that long, you don't think Surratt, Buchanan, or Briles could bring a State Title.  Remember now, Briles did it with a bad situation at Stephenville.  I read where it said, " Briles... took over a program down on luck and numbers."  In 3 years he went 13-2.  And in 6 years he won his first of 4 State Titles.   I guess it could have been the facilities.  Or the artificial turf.  Or the natural gas boom.  Or something new.  NOT!  None of these things happened.  But we know what it was!   So, how is this any different?

Was Kendall Bryles the QB? If so, that is better than anything that has/will ever go through Tarkington. 

[Reagan]

3 minutes ago, 89Falcon said:

Was Kendall Bryles the QB? If so, that is better than anything that has/will ever go through Tarkington. 

Just 1 year, my friend.  They had 3 other ones.  If Briles would have been at Tarkington during this time, then Kendall would have been at Tarkington.  Just think about it!

[oldschool2]

59 minutes ago, Reagan said:

So, I'll give it 10 years.  Within this time frame, and they stay there that long, you don't think Surratt, Buchanan, or Briles could bring a State Title.  Remember now, Briles did it with a bad situation at Stephenville.  I read where it said, " Briles... took over a program down on luck and numbers."  In 3 years he went 13-2.  And in 6 years he won his first of 4 State Titles.   I guess it could have been the facilities.  Or the artificial turf.  Or the natural gas boom.  Or something new.  NOT!  None of these things happened.  But we know what it was!   So, how is this any different?

I have no doubt that Art Briles has forgotten more about football X's and O's then most of us will ever know.. but.. Briles coached 6 different quarterbacks that went on to play D1.  Including his own son (UT and UH).  Unless he's bringing that kind of talent to Tarkington.. No.. he's not replicating the success early on. 

[89Falcon]

26 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Just 1 year, my friend.  They had 3 other ones.  If Briles would have been at Tarkington during this time, then Kendall would have been at Tarkington.  Just think about it!

Agreed, If Cam Newton's dad was to coach Tarkington. They could have a winning season.

[PrairieMan]

59 minutes ago, 89Falcon said:

Was Kendall Bryles the QB? If so, that is better than anything that has/will ever go through Tarkington. 

Man you got some bitterness going on with the Prairie. Did some ole country boy whoop your ***  or did some cowboy from there steal "your" girl? You never even have anything of value to say, just some random broad stroke dis that I'm assuming you have dialed up for all of your "most hated" areas. 

Feel free to put some thought into your comments from time to time, assuming you actually know how to. 

[89Falcon]

7 minutes ago, PrairieMan said:

Man you got some bitterness going on with the Prairie. Did some ole country boy whoop your ***  or did some cowboy from there steal "your" girl? You never even have anything of value to say, just some random broad stroke dis that I'm assuming you have dialed up for all of your "most hated" areas. 

Feel free to put some thought into your comments from time to time, assuming you actually know how to. 

Cry me a river. 

[PrairieMan]

Just now, 89Falcon said:

Cry me a river. 

hahaha!!!! Thank you for reiterating my point. 

reiterating - say something again or a number of times, typically for emphasis or clarity

Based on your comments, I figured I would save you some time..... 

[bullets13]

2 hours ago, Reagan said:

So, I'll give it 10 years.  Within this time frame, and they stay there that long, you don't think Surratt, Buchanan, or Briles could bring a State Title.  Remember now, Briles did it with a bad situation at Stephenville.  I read where it said, " Briles... took over a program down on luck and numbers."  In 3 years he went 13-2.  And in 6 years he won his first of 4 State Titles.   I guess it could have been the facilities.  Or the artificial turf.  Or the natural gas boom.  Or something new.  NOT!  None of these things happened.  But we know what it was!   So, how is this any different?

No.  Still no.  Just like with PNG, and every other time you've asked this same question on all of the different threads you've asked it.  None of those coaches, or even those coaches working together could bring Tarkington a state championship in ten years.  Would the team's record improve?  Yes.  Would they make the playoffs, and maybe even win a playoff game or two?  Yeah, that would happen.  But no, they're not going to take a team with almost no talent pool and turn them into a powerhouse.  The ONLY way that one of these coaches could turn a school with few athletes and minimal community support into a powerhouse would be if they took a job in Houston or Dallas ISD, and could actively recruit players from other schools in the city (and get away with it).  Likewise, any example you bring up from 10-15 (or more) years ago where a coach came in and turned things around are now a null and void argument, because those teams didn't have to face these dallas and houston all-star teams, and kids were still held to the requirement of playing for the schools they're supposed to be zoned to.  

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, bullets13 said:

No.  Still no.  Just like with PNG, and every other time you've asked this same question on all of the different threads you've asked it.  None of those coaches, or even those coaches working together could bring Tarkington a state championship in ten years.  Would the team's record improve?  Yes.  Would they make the playoffs, and maybe even win a playoff game or two?  Yeah, that would happen.  But no, they're not going to take a team with almost no talent pool and turn them into a powerhouse.  The ONLY way that one of these coaches could turn a school with few athletes and minimal community support into a powerhouse would be if they took a job in Houston or Dallas ISD, and could actively recruit players from other schools in the city (and get away with it).  Likewise, any example you bring up from 10-15 (or more) years ago where a coach came in and turned things around are now a null and void argument, because those teams didn't have to face these dallas and houston all-star teams, and kids were still held to the requirement of playing for the schools they're supposed to be zoned to.  

Oh, I forgot:  In his 1st year at Mount Vernon, Briles went to the playoffs with only having started the job 28 days before practice started.  THEN, the next year -- he brought them to heights the school had never seen before.  He brought them to one game away from the State Title.  There's a distinct possibility that the next year could have been another State Title for him.  But, we'll never know.   Heck, just replace the name Mount Vernon with Tarkington.  I'll admit that it would probably take more than a couple of years.   But no doubt in my mind, after he got his program started, like he did at Stephenville, 10 years would be enough.

[Reagan]

4 hours ago, Reagan said:

Thanks for the info.  It's always good when something is brought up that we have input from someone that's actually been involved in it.  Let me give an analogy:  It's like we are having a topic debate/discussion on high school bands.  95-98% of this forum, including me, has no first hand knowledge of playing in the high school band.  So, for decent and somewhat expert opinions, I would defer to someone that has been involved in the band.  Because otherwise, any other opinions are from those that only knows about the band,  is what they've seen as a stand dweller.   Again, thanks!

ttt

[BEARCPA]

4 hours ago, Reagan said:

Thanks for the info.  It's always good when something is brought up that we have input from someone that's actually been involved in it.  Let me give an analogy:  It's like we are having a topic debate/discussion on high school bands.  95-98% of this forum, including me, has no first hand knowledge of playing in the high school band.  So, for decent and somewhat expert opinions, I would defer to someone that has been involved in the band.  Because otherwise, any other opinions are from those that only knows about the band,  is what they've seen as a stand dweller.   Again, thanks!

So going by this logic I am going to assume that you have won a state championship as a head football coach, because you seem to be an expert on what it takes to win a state championship based on all your posts on here. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

39 minutes ago, BEARCPA said:

So going by this logic I am going to assume that you have won a state championship as a head football coach, because you seem to be an expert on what it takes to win a state championship based on all your posts on here. 

Reagan wants Barrow's job. 

[WOSdrummer99]

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