Tarkington Open

[Hupernikomen]

37 minutes ago, SherriffReesie said:

Tarkington is definitely not a prime location for move ins. There are like 15 rent houses that surround the school and no apartments at all. Everything else is pretty much a house with a couple acres of land. Not many options for people to move in randomly. 

I looked into buying some land in Tarkington and it was well out of my price range. They are very proud of their prairie land. I found cheaper elsewhere. 

Land is way too expensive here for sure.  Starting to see a lot of new built houses nonetheless.

[urgf]

Interim AD is Cliff Tooley as of now and HC/AD is not split. I know Toby Belt is on staff and would be a nice hire. 

[Reagan]

I have said "consistency" and "right'" coach is the key to building a program.  I looked at both East Chambers and Tarkington coaching histories since 2005.  

East Chambers:    Tony Valastro:  153 - 96    (6 years)           Russ Sutherland:  97 - 33    (11 years)

Tarkington:    Walter Fortune:   40 - 86    (4 years)

                         Robert Carr:    30 - 52    (1 year)

                         Brandon Carpenter:    21 - 53    (6 years)   

                         Stan Howard:    53 - 41    (3 years)

                         Zach Bass:    6 - 12    (2 years)

                         Eliseo Aguero    61 - 82    (1 year)

Now, I understand success keeps people around awhile.  But looking at Tarkington's list -- not a stellar bunch they had.  Tarkington also hired Mike Heckenthorn (85 - 148) 3 times and hired Walter Fortune 2 times.  You got to wonder if they went to same school of hiring coaches as the Beaumont ISD did?!    But, to be fair, at the time, these may have been the cream of the crop on their application list.  This is why I always like to see the list.  It's going to take someone dedicated for the long run in order to turn this around.  If possible -- Tarkington will have to do a better job at hiring coaches.  

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, urgf said:

Interim AD is Cliff Tooley as of now and HC/AD is not split. I know Toby Belt is on staff and would be a nice hire. 

Your opinion:  If you want to turn this program around, do you think it's a good idea to hire someone off of a losing staff?  

[SherriffReesie]

19 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Your opinion:  If you want to turn this program around, do you think it's a good idea to hire someone off of a losing staff?  

Toby Belt has only been on staff since after Christmas so he wasn't a part of said losing staff.

[PrairieMan]

18 hours ago, 89Falcon said:

For the folks who believe that "Tarkington has talent to win" and that "all they need is a good coach to win a State Title", please remember this prophesy 40 years from now: "Tarkington is/will be tragically slow and weak with no quantifiable football talent. They will never win a championship in football".  

Please send me the quote where anyone from or around the situation that said that Tarkington had the talent to win the state title in football? Won't be able to because nobody did. 

Just looking for a good man that can come in, get the kids excited about playing ALL sports because every ounce of talent is needed in all of them to be competitive. Then maybe that person can motivate them to use their spare time in the summer and such to put in the extra work. Try to grow some focus on preparing the younger kids for high school ball and for the ones that are already there, put in a system that gives them the best chance of winning some games. They have some athletic kids, just need to be pushed and taught the right way to go about their business. Nobody here is looking for state titles, we aren't mistaken, this isn't Argyle. We want to give our kids the ability to pursue sports in whatever capacity they want to, achieve as much as possible and then go out into the real world and be good people.  

You should maybe spend a little less time polishing your youth football trophy and a little more effort into learning how to have a real conversation.

[bullets13]

4 hours ago, BEARCPA said:

From what I understand this is also why Orangefield's population/enrollment numbers remain stagnant. Its a very desirable school district that people want to move to, and there is tons of acreage that could be developed into neighborhoods and businesses. The property owners just do not want to part ways with their land though, which is totally understandable.

I'll be honest, I'll take stagnant enrollment numbers out here at HF until the end of time versus having a bunch of subdivisions and neighborhoods built, no matter what effect the move-ins would have on the football program.  I pray that our property owners out here hold onto their land.  

[bullets13]

23 minutes ago, PrairieMan said:

Please send me the quote where anyone from or around the situation that said that Tarkington had the talent to win the state title in football? Won't be able to because nobody did. 

Just looking for a good man that can come in, get the kids excited about playing ALL sports because every ounce of talent is needed in all of them to be competitive. Then maybe that person can motivate them to use their spare time in the summer and such to put in the extra work. Try to grow some focus on preparing the younger kids for high school ball and for the ones that are already there, put in a system that gives them the best chance of winning some games. They have some athletic kids, just need to be pushed and taught the right way to go about their business. Nobody here is looking for state titles, we aren't mistaken, this isn't Argyle. We want to give our kids the ability to pursue sports in whatever capacity they want to, achieve as much as possible and then go out into the real world and be good people.  

You should maybe spend a little less time polishing your youth football trophy and a little more effort into learning how to have a real conversation.

this is 100% the right approach, and a great post.  that said, half of this thread is a certain poster stating that all Tarkington is away from being the next Argyle is hiring an elite coach and keeping him on staff for 7-10 years.  

[Reagan]

3 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

this is 100% the right approach, and a great post.  that said, half of this thread is a certain poster stating that all Tarkington is away from being the next Argyle is hiring an elite coach and keeping him on staff for 7-10 years.  

My friend, wrong again!  Never said Tarkington will hire an Elite coach.  I said staying the long term could EVENTUALLY  make this individual an Elite coach.  Just like Aldo made Buchanan an Elite coach and Carthage made Surratt an Elite coach.  Argyle was 1-9 when Rodgers took over.  He was NOT an Elite when he arrived.  He became an Elite because of his ability and staying the long term.

[BEARCPA]

41 minutes ago, PrairieMan said:

Please send me the quote where anyone from or around the situation that said that Tarkington had the talent to win the state title in football? Won't be able to because nobody did. 

Just looking for a good man that can come in, get the kids excited about playing ALL sports because every ounce of talent is needed in all of them to be competitive. Then maybe that person can motivate them to use their spare time in the summer and such to put in the extra work. Try to grow some focus on preparing the younger kids for high school ball and for the ones that are already there, put in a system that gives them the best chance of winning some games. They have some athletic kids, just need to be pushed and taught the right way to go about their business. Nobody here is looking for state titles, we aren't mistaken, this isn't Argyle. We want to give our kids the ability to pursue sports in whatever capacity they want to, achieve as much as possible and then go out into the real world and be good people.  

You should maybe spend a little less time polishing your youth football trophy and a little more effort into learning how to have a real conversation.

Good post - the highlighted part starts with the parents though. 

[89Falcon]

42 minutes ago, PrairieMan said:

Please send me the quote where anyone from or around the situation that said that Tarkington had the talent to win the state title in football? Won't be able to because nobody did. 

Just looking for a good man that can come in, get the kids excited about playing ALL sports because every ounce of talent is needed in all of them to be competitive. Then maybe that person can motivate them to use their spare time in the summer and such to put in the extra work. Try to grow some focus on preparing the younger kids for high school ball and for the ones that are already there, put in a system that gives them the best chance of winning some games. They have some athletic kids, just need to be pushed and taught the right way to go about their business. Nobody here is looking for state titles, we aren't mistaken, this isn't Argyle. We want to give our kids the ability to pursue sports in whatever capacity they want to, achieve as much as possible and then go out into the real world and be good people.  

You should maybe spend a little less time polishing your youth football trophy and a little more effort into learning how to have a real conversation.

The transcript is right there for you to read. The majority of this thread has been surrounding claims that that "Tarkington is just like Stephenville, Carthage, Liberty Hill, etc." and "the only difference between those schools is that Tarkington has not got the right coach". The overwhelming point is that "every coach that Tarkington has had was not a bad coach". There are more factors in play than coaching. In particular, Tarkington does not have similar talent to the schools mentioned.

[Reagan]

8 minutes ago, 89Falcon said:

The transcript is right there for you to read. The majority of this thread has been surrounding claims that that "Tarkington is just like Stephenville, Carthage, Liberty Hill, etc." and "the only difference between those schools is that Tarkington has not got the right coach". The overwhelming point is that "every coach that Tarkington has had was not a bad coach". There are more factors in play than coaching. In particular, Tarkington does not have similar talent to the schools mentioned.

Did you see the last 6 coaches Tarkington had and their overall records that I posted?!   Get back with me when you do!

[PrairieMan]

31 minutes ago, 89Falcon said:

The transcript is right there for you to read. The majority of this thread has been surrounding claims that that "Tarkington is just like Stephenville, Carthage, Liberty Hill, etc." and "the only difference between those schools is that Tarkington has not got the right coach". The overwhelming point is that "every coach that Tarkington has had was not a bad coach". There are more factors in play than coaching. In particular, Tarkington does not have similar talent to the schools mentioned.

Yeah but that came from a person who couldn't be further from Tarkington. Your post reads as if the community or other posters on here from the area think that. Which is the source of your constant thoughtless bashing of the kids. I will repeat, NOBODY from the area made this claim. 

I can guarantee you that most of the kids that are currently enrolled in Tarkington don't have parents that went there. So rationale should tell you that people have come and gone. Why haven't more "athletic" kids moved in is the question then, right? Well, we can all agree that the high school sports teams aren't bringing them in. So the people that are moving in to the area are coming in for a number of reasons, my guess is led by the fact they want their kids to have a yard or maybe a few acres to go outside, breathe fresh air and maybe raise a farm animal or two. So like I said previously, very few people here are looking for a football dynasty. They just want to see their kids become respectable adults and maybe a couple wins from whatever sports team their kid is on.

That's just the mentality of the majority and even for me who is a sports fanatic and been here most of my life, it drives me crazy that we aren't more competitive or that kids aren't willing to put extra time in to improve their chances of getting better on Friday night. But for the most part that frustration goes away on Saturday morning when I go to the store and see kids hold open the door for adults and say yes sir and no sir to me when I ask them questions. By no means am I saying those things can't go hand in hand but that's the trade off that most people here are willing to make. 

[PrairieMan]

11 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Did you see the last 6 coaches Tarkington had and their overall records that I posted?!   Get back with me when you do!

I don't know who you are but you are clueless if your basing their coaching abilities off of the records that for the most part you entered wrong by the way. (How does a coach play 84 games in 3 seasons???) 

Brandon Carpenter is currently the head football coach of Klein Oak 

Zach Bass is the current OC of BW

Don't forget the aforementioned Coach Snelson who is currently one of the top coaches in the state. 

As I mentioned in my other post, many other factors at play. Considering that both of them came into programs that were in total disarray due to the previous regimes. So what this proves more than anything is, good coaches that help turn around the program end up leaving for greener pastures and unfortunately they haven't done a good job of hiring the next guy which ends up turning the program up on it's head again and for a school like Tarkington, that can mean dark years before the next light can be seen. That's why this next hire is so important for a school like them. 

[89Falcon]

18 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Did you see the last 6 coaches Tarkington had and their overall records that I posted?!   Get back with me when you do!

Have you ever coached? No coach can win without talent. I have seen coaches win 10+ games one year and win 1 game the next. Do they become "bad coaches" in the span of 6 months? No, they had less talented players. I have seen coaches have multiple losing seasons and then have a special group where they win (example: Deweyville 2011-2012). Were they bad coaches before and miraculously learn how to coach all of a sudden? In the case of Tarkington, there are no good groups coming through the pipeline.  

[PrairieMan]

32 minutes ago, 89Falcon said:

Have you ever coached? No coach can win without talent. I have seen coaches win 10+ games one year and win 1 game the next. Do they become "bad coaches" in the span of 6 months? No, they had less talented players. I have seen coaches have multiple losing seasons and then have a special group where they win (example: Deweyville 2011-2012). Were they bad coaches before and miraculously learn how to coach all of a sudden? In the case of Tarkington, there are no good groups coming through the pipeline.  

You're relentless, I'll give you that!

Have you seen all school age groups recently play to make these statements? Just wondering what your basis is other than the obvious underlying hatred. Their 8th grade group from last year lost 2 games all year long in football and lost only one game in basketball. Those kids are now Freshmen in high school and some were forced into the spotlight onto varsity because of how many starting seniors graduated last year. Their graduating QB left to play baseball for West Point, a couple baseball players went to play college ball and they had one of the better basketball teams that's come through in a while led by 5 starting seniors who should have beat Dibol in the playoffs had their 6th man and maybe second best shooter not had been flagrantly fouled where he broke his arm. Oh by the way no foul was called because the ref said the kid hit the ball and turned into 2 points their direction.....but I digress.... haha

flashback to this year - They had a sophmore who started most of the games at QB, a Freshman WR and another WR that hadn't played football since he was in middle school. The starting middle linebacker who was a sophmore got hurt and thus pressed another freshman into the starting role. Starting freshman safety. The current 8th grade team had some decent skill position players but they were weak on the offensive line. Not trying to make claims about how unbelievably talented they are but there is SOME talent here.  

[Reagan]

32 minutes ago, 89Falcon said:

Have you ever coached? No coach can win without talent. I have seen coaches win 10+ games one year and win 1 game the next. Do they become "bad coaches" in the span of 6 months? No, they had less talented players. I have seen coaches have multiple losing seasons and then have a special group where they win (example: Deweyville 2011-2012). Were they bad coaches before and miraculously learn how to coach all of a sudden? In the case of Tarkington, there are no good groups coming through the pipeline.  

So, you give the coach a pass but blame the kids!   

[Reagan]

38 minutes ago, PrairieMan said:

I don't know who you are but you are clueless if your basing their coaching abilities off of the records that for the most part you entered wrong by the way. (How does a coach play 84 games in 3 seasons???) 

Brandon Carpenter is currently the head football coach of Klein Oak 

Zach Bass is the current OC of BW

Don't forget the aforementioned Coach Snelson who is currently one of the top coaches in the state. 

As I mentioned in my other post, many other factors at play. Considering that both of them came into programs that were in total disarray due to the previous regimes. So what this proves more than anything is, good coaches that help turn around the program end up leaving for greener pastures and unfortunately they haven't done a good job of hiring the next guy which ends up turning the program up on it's head again and for a school like Tarkington, that can mean dark years before the next light can be seen. That's why this next hire is so important for a school like them. 

What?  If you are talking about the list I provided, those records were their overall records as head coaches.  The number in parenthesis is the amount of time they spent at Tarkington.  Although I think I know what you are trying to say, I don't see an 84.

Carpenter is at Klein:  So?   He went 6-6!

Bass:  So?  Some make better assistants than head coaches.

Snelson:  Who mention this one?   I checked to see who you were talking about.  Not bad.  But one of the top coaches in the state?  I can see where you bar and expectations are set.   But, I see he only stayed at Tarkington for two years.  Again, not long enough to get anything going.

BTW -- what is your expertise in this field to call anyone clueless?!  

 

[Hupernikomen]

.

[Reagan]

37 minutes ago, Hupernikomen said:

.

I appreciate your input concerning Tarkington.  It's refreshing to hear from someone that "actually" knows something about the subject!  Keep the knowledge coming!

[89Falcon]

4 hours ago, Reagan said:

So, you give the coach a pass but blame the kids!   

Blame kids? It's not their fault. You should coach at a small school and report back on what happens when you have 20-25 players and "none" of them can run a 4-9 40 or weigh more than 220 pounds. Show everyone "how to win". Show everyone how to make those 5-0 40s catch a team full of 4-5 and 4-6s. Show everyone how to make a 200 OL with a 205 lb bench press move a 280 lb DL with a 300 lb bench press. You will be in high demand with your knowledge. 

[PrairieMan]

6 hours ago, Reagan said:

What?  If you are talking about the list I provided, those records were their overall records as head coaches.  The number in parenthesis is the amount of time they spent at Tarkington.  Although I think I know what you are trying to say, I don't see an 84.

Carpenter is at Klein:  So?   He went 6-6!

Bass:  So?  Some make better assistants than head coaches.

Snelson:  Who mention this one?   I checked to see who you were talking about.  Not bad.  But one of the top coaches in the state?  I can see where you bar and expectations are set.   But, I see he only stayed at Tarkington for two years.  Again, not long enough to get anything going.

BTW -- what is your expertise in this field to call anyone clueless?!  

 

All I'm saying is if you're only looking at record that's a pretty unfair way to judge a high school football coach coming up through the ranks. 

For instance, Carpenter was handed a mess of a program for his first head coaching gig at Tarkington. Not only was he fighting the normal talent issues but there was also a total lack of discipline and mindset from everyone involved. He cleaned house and there were some tough years. Once he got it back up on its feet, he then took a decently talented team, beat a bigger school, took them to playoffs, beat Mexia and lost in the second round. Then you want to mock his 6-6 record at KO. Did you even bother to look at the schedule? Did you happen to notice the ringer of schools that they ran through before district even started? It included the state champions who they scored more points on than anyone else did all year long. Also they played the only team that beat North Shore all year and they played a really good Spring team without their QB. I'm just saying, lets stop looking at everything as if it's in vacuum. Different situations for everyone. 

Coach Bass is young and will be the HC somewhere and will win football games, I guarantee you that much. His attitude and leadership here at Tarkington were very impressive. He was handed a similar mess with the previous regime running off some of the talent.

and finally if you don't respect Coach Snelson for the football coach that he is, then that's all I need to know about you. Ask any Texas football coach about the man that he is and the coach that he is. 

[idk]

15 hours ago, PrairieMan said:

You're relentless, I'll give you that!

Have you seen all school age groups recently play to make these statements? Just wondering what your basis is other than the obvious underlying hatred. Their 8th grade group from last year lost 2 games all year long in football and lost only one game in basketball. Those kids are now Freshmen in high school and some were forced into the spotlight onto varsity because of how many starting seniors graduated last year. Their graduating QB left to play baseball for West Point, a couple baseball players went to play college ball and they had one of the better basketball teams that's come through in a while led by 5 starting seniors who should have beat Dibol in the playoffs had their 6th man and maybe second best shooter not had been flagrantly fouled where he broke his arm. Oh by the way no foul was called because the ref said the kid hit the ball and turned into 2 points their direction.....but I digress.... haha

flashback to this year - They had a sophmore who started most of the games at QB, a Freshman WR and another WR that hadn't played football since he was in middle school. The starting middle linebacker who was a sophmore got hurt and thus pressed another freshman into the starting role. Starting freshman safety. The current 8th grade team had some decent skill position players but they were weak on the offensive line. Not trying to make claims about how unbelievably talented they are but there is SOME talent here.  

Your statement about the 8th grade team is what needs to change in Tarkington. Let me explain. I have seen a many of Tarkington's 7th & 8th grade teams that were pretty good in comparison to others they played in jr. high. Then high school comes along and those same kids that won a ton in jr. high can't seem to win at the high school level. Why is that? what changes, because most of the kids are the same on each team. Is it coaching, or is it the Parents not pushing the kids to put in the work? I am truly wanting to know the answer to this. A coach can push a kid as much as he wants but if that is not backed up and continued by the parents then it's not going to happen. Until Tarkington gets a coach that can get thru to the kids and have the backing of the parents to push them, then it will never change.

 

I watched when my son was in jr. high and Tarkington would beat them both years 7th & 8th. pretty bad, but when high school came around it was reversed. As good as Tarkington was in jr. high they should of been able to build on that and at least compete at the high school level, but they couldn't. So What gives?

[PrairieMan]

7 minutes ago, idk said:

Your statement about the 8th grade team is what needs to change in Tarkington. Let me explain. I have seen a many of Tarkington's 7th & 8th grade teams that were pretty good in comparison to others they played in jr. high. Then high school comes along and those same kids that won a ton in jr. high can't seem to win at the high school level. Why is that? what changes, because most of the kids are the same on each team. Is it coaching, or is it the Parents not pushing the kids to put in the work? I am truly wanting to know the answer to this. A coach can push a kid as much as he wants but if that is not backed up and continued by the parents then it's not going to happen. Until Tarkington gets a coach that can get thru to the kids and have the backing of the parents to push them, then it will never change.

 

I watched when my son was in jr. high and Tarkington would beat them both years 7th & 8th. pretty bad, but when high school came around it was reversed. As good as Tarkington was in jr. high they should of been able to build on that and at least compete at the high school level, but they couldn't. So What gives?

Couldn't agree with you more!

I think it's a combination of things. I think like we've talked about previously, other factors come into play. When those Jr High kids come up to high school, the most talented ones get pushed into varsity too quick on the football side of things. Football is by far the hardest sport to step in as a Freshman and make a difference in my opinion. But because talent is sparse like we've mentioned, the high school coach has a tendency to want to push those kids up thinking they are going to be difference makers and more often than not, it tends not to work out. Then the lower level teams, JV and Freshman get destroyed because those couple kids were two way starters with big impacts to that team. So the decent kids that need the time to develop and need to put in the extra work to get better decide they got better things to do than run out there and get beat by 30 every night just so one day they can play varsity. I'm not saying it's a good thing by any means. What you wish is those kids would want to put in the extra work since they did have some success together, but for whatever reason it tends not to happen.

That was one thing Carpenter did with those kids that did have the winning season and won in the playoffs. Most of those kids stayed together through all levels of football and when it came "their" time, they were ready and did well. 

[oldschool2]

16 hours ago, Reagan said:

So, you give the coach a pass but blame the kids!   

When a head coach goes 8-2 one year.. graduates 80% of the team but retains the exact same coaching staff.. then goes 2-8 the next year, is it the coach's fault?  Because that actually happens all the time.

If a coach goes 8-2 one year.. the team goes up in classification but retains the same coaching staff and most of the players.. then goes 2-8 the next year, is it the coach's fault?  Because that also happens all the time.

By the way.. if a coach has a team with limited talent but improves speed, strength, and work ethic of each player.. it still may have not been enough improvement to win more games.