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Tarkington Open

cat001

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oldschool2
oldschool2

Now we're going to discuss the differences between debating and arguing?  Unbelievable..  By the way, I can assure you that I'm not taking anything personal.  I'm not the one using exclamation po

oldschool2
oldschool2

Again.. I'll never take anything away from the knowledge of Art Briles or the success he's had in his career.  You do understand, though, that Mount Vernon had some pretty good seasons before Briles g

oldschool2
oldschool2

300 unathletic kids can't beat 15 good athletes.  Not on the football field.

Reagan

Reagan

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, BEARCPA said:

A quick search of 247's recruiting database will tell you that at least 50 players went D-1 while Westerberg was at Allen, but shows only one guy going D-1 while he was at BH. Real shame he forgot how to develop talent when he moved to Mont Belvieu. 

Again, thanks for the info.  Would you mind posting the link to this info so we can see who these people were?  And I'm sure we would like to also look at other past recruits at different schools.  Thanks!

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Reagan

Reagan

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

You're actually proving my point... that because of fluctuating talent in every opponent (even one's own school), due to graduations, injuries, etc.  can and will impact the results of a season.  How many coaches out there could have had a state championship if not for losing kids for whatever reason and/or reclassification?  Or visa versa.  Tell the guy I'm arguing with that there are other factors at play.. other than who the coach is.

A quick note:  My friend, no one is "arguing" here.  We are having a debate pitting your opinions against my opinions as with the rest of us here.  As I've said before, it's nothing personal.  

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SherriffReesie

SherriffReesie

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, RidinTheRange said:

Is this about Tarkington? Does anyone know where they are at in the process?

 

The job just got posted earlier this week so the process is just in the beginning. The posting is for AD and HFC but in the posting it says that they reserve the right to hire those positions separately. 

So they are very early in the process and don't know if they wanna separate it or not. The new sup just started so I imagine she will have somebody she will want to bring but she is from the Dallas area and not sure anybody will want to follow her down here. 

That is about all I know.  

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oldschool2

oldschool2

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Reagan said:

A quick note:  My friend, no one is "arguing" here.  We are having a debate pitting your opinions against my opinions as with the rest of us here.  As I've said before, it's nothing personal.  

Now we're going to discuss the differences between debating and arguing?  Unbelievable.. 

By the way, I can assure you that I'm not taking anything personal.  I'm not the one using exclamation points in my posts.. as if your emotion will make your point stronger.  It won't.

You should be happy.. I've long since become bored with this debate/argument (whatever you wanna call it).  You think that a coach is only elite because of championships.  I don't.  You think an elite coach (according to your definition) can win anywhere and with anyone.  I don't.

Signing out of this circus.

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pedrocerrano

pedrocerrano

Posted
Posted
On 4/4/2022 at 11:44 AM, Reagan said:

Well, I went back to every page to see if you posted something concerning this subject.  Guess what?  No postings.  So, got to wonder why all of a sudden you are concerned about it.  Anyway, if you had been paying attention, there is a correlation about Briles and Tarkington.  It may take a few side roads but so what?  Point started off being that Stephenville was very much in the same boat as Tarkington.  I even posted Stephenville's records before Briles got there.  Point being -- it took the right coach to come in and right the ship.  I believe it took him 6 years to implement his program which resulted in 4 State Titles.  And BTW -- during those Title runs he was 63-1.  Impressive in anyone's book.  Tarkington will need someone dedicated to staying there and implementing a program that reaches all the way down to the junior high level.  And just as Brownwood was the big dog in Stephenville's district, that eventually fell to Stephenville, it appears that East Chambers is the big dog here.  This would be the goal to topple East Chambers.  But, can just any coach do it?  No.  But, as with any hire -- you never know if you got the "right" coach or not!  

holy smokes man, i was just commenting on the length of the discussion, not the actual topic

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Matthew328

Matthew328

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, BEARCPA said:

This is the hidden content, please

Here's what I could research for Allen on their 2012-2014 rosters during the 3-peat...as you can see a TON of talent

 

 

Allen Class of 2013

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Allen Class of 2014

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Allen Class of 2015

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Allen Class of 2016

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Allen Class of 2017

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Separation Scientist

Separation Scientist

Posted
Posted
On 4/6/2022 at 8:28 AM, mrtomcat said:

careful what you say here.  sutherland (in tarkington) will still convince about 3 families from beaumont to move to tarkington !!!

lets not pretend all the talent thats came thru EC in the past 20 years has been home grown winnie boys.

i'm not knocking it for a second. sutherland is the greatest recruiter / coach in the history of east chambers and will continue to win until he retires

but lets stop dreaming.  tarkington will never be EC and will never be able to lure in a coach with credentials like RS.

Thats spot on. Everyone (my Tark friend included) says EC collects Beaumont kids who play the skill positions, and I know Tark never gets anything. Take away the Beaumont imports and EC does not win their district. In fact, they didn't win last year, I think Woodville did. EC was 8-4, 2nd place, and went out after the first round. Thats hardly anything to brag about especially coming from one of the weakest districts in the state. With 4A playoff team Orangefield dropping down, Anahuac growing, and Woodville apparently strong (for this area), there is no need to "topple" EC. EC could end up the 3rd place team in a weak district. 

 

  

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JSnipes

JSnipes

Posted
Posted

I contacted five state championship coaches one year when volleyball season and asked if I could meet with. I told them I would come to them and pay them for their time, but I just wanted to talk about the game and see what they were doing different than our area. One coach had just won her third in a row. The first thing she said to me was, “Coach…you are only as good as your athletes.”

During our conversation the name Ryan Mitchell came up and how good of a job he was doing. She told me he was her assistant and would talk about how terrible some coaches her. She would tell him, “Ryan…that coach could be really good but you are only as good as your players.” He took a job a school and left after two or three years because he was getting his butt kicked. Humbled, he went back to being her assistant for a year or two. He then left and started the volleyball program at Lucas Lovejoy…he won five straight state championships, including moving from 4A to 5A during that five year span. 
 

Just an example how most coaches think…we are only as good as our athletes, but it is our job to maximize their talents to the best of their abilities. I also think this debate is probably as pointless as trying to change a Democratic to Republican or Republican to Democrat. You aren’t going to change anyone’s mind on how they feel. 

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Reagan

Reagan

Posted
Posted
On 4/7/2022 at 7:31 PM, Matthew328 said:

Westerberg took over at Allen at the perfect time.....they were growing at an incredible rate and talent was arriving by the boatload as Allen became the largest school in the country...he's a very good coach and he had a very good staff with multiple head coaches on there.....but like I said very good coaches still cant win with mediocre talent (ie Barbers Hill)

G.A. (GARY AUTRY) MOORE, JR.
44 years; 426-92-9; 27-19-8
1962  Bryson   (6-Man)
1963  Pilot Point                6-3-0
1964  Pilot Point                7-3-0
1965  Pilot Point                8-1-2*
1966  Pilot Point                5-5-0
1967  Pilot Point                5-4-1
1968  Pilot Point              10-1-0*
1969  Pilot Point                8-2-0
1970  Pilot Point                7-3-0
1971  —ministry—
1972  Celina                      8-1-1
1973  Celina                      9-1-0
1974  Celina                    13-1-1*
1975  Celina                    13-1-0*
1976  Celina                      9-1-0
1977  Pilot Point                7-3-0
1978  Pilot Point                9-1-0
1979  Pilot Point              11-1-0*
1980  Pilot Point              14-0-1*
1981  Pilot Point              15-0-0*
1982  Pilot Point              12-1-0*
1983  Pilot Point              11-1-1*
1984  Pilot Point              10-1-0*
1985  Pilot Point              13-1-0*
1986  Sherman                 6-4-0
1987  Sherman                 6-4-0
1988  Celina                    13-2-0*
1989  Celina                      8-3-0 R
1990  Celina                      9-1-1*
1991  Celina                      8-2-0
1992  Celina                      8-3-0 R
1993  Celina                      7-3-0
1994  Celina                    11-1-0*
1995  Celina                    15-1-0 R
1996  Celina                    11-1-0*
1997  Celina                    11-3-0*
1998  Celina                    14-2-0 R
1999  Celina                    16-0-0*
2000  Celina                    16-0-0*
2001  Celina                    16-0-0*
2002  Pilot Point                7-4-0 T
2003  Pilot Point                7-5-0 T
2004  Pilot Point                8-3-0 R

I know we like to talk about Westerburg, but how about us talking about what G.A. Moore did?  Won a title at Celina, went to Pilot point won 2 in a row, then went back to Celina.  There he won one, then two years later won 4 in a row.  Did the talent just happen to show up at every school he showed up at?  Or was it his coaching ability that made this possible?  As I've said before, nothing's in a straight line.  There are no guarantees.  But, I think what could be somewhere at, or over, 90% of the time, an Elite coach (2 or more Titles) can/will win Titles at different schools.  Again, my opinion.

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Matthew328

Matthew328

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Reagan said:

G.A. (GARY AUTRY) MOORE, JR.
44 years; 426-92-9; 27-19-8
1962  Bryson   (6-Man)
1963  Pilot Point                6-3-0
1964  Pilot Point                7-3-0
1965  Pilot Point                8-1-2*
1966  Pilot Point                5-5-0
1967  Pilot Point                5-4-1
1968  Pilot Point              10-1-0*
1969  Pilot Point                8-2-0
1970  Pilot Point                7-3-0
1971  —ministry—
1972  Celina                      8-1-1
1973  Celina                      9-1-0
1974  Celina                    13-1-1*
1975  Celina                    13-1-0*
1976  Celina                      9-1-0
1977  Pilot Point                7-3-0
1978  Pilot Point                9-1-0
1979  Pilot Point              11-1-0*
1980  Pilot Point              14-0-1*
1981  Pilot Point              15-0-0*
1982  Pilot Point              12-1-0*
1983  Pilot Point              11-1-1*
1984  Pilot Point              10-1-0*
1985  Pilot Point              13-1-0*
1986  Sherman                 6-4-0
1987  Sherman                 6-4-0
1988  Celina                    13-2-0*
1989  Celina                      8-3-0 R
1990  Celina                      9-1-1*
1991  Celina                      8-2-0
1992  Celina                      8-3-0 R
1993  Celina                      7-3-0
1994  Celina                    11-1-0*
1995  Celina                    15-1-0 R
1996  Celina                    11-1-0*
1997  Celina                    11-3-0*
1998  Celina                    14-2-0 R
1999  Celina                    16-0-0*
2000  Celina                    16-0-0*
2001  Celina                    16-0-0*
2002  Pilot Point                7-4-0 T
2003  Pilot Point                7-5-0 T
2004  Pilot Point                8-3-0 R

I know we like to talk about Westerburg, but how about us talking about what G.A. Moore did?  Won a title at Celina, went to Pilot point won 2 in a row, then went back to Celina.  There he won one, then two years later won 4 in a row.  Did the talent just happen to show up at every school he showed up at?  Or was it his coaching ability that made this possible?  As I've said before, nothing's in a straight line.  There are no guarantees.  But, I think what could be somewhere at, or over, 90% of the time, an Elite coach (2 or more Titles) can/will win Titles at different schools.  Again, my opinion.

Pilot Point and Celina are literally next door to each other...there were always rumors of kids bouncing from one town to the next to play wherever Moore was...although when Moore was at Celina, Pilot Point was still good and when Moore was at Pilot Point, Celina was still really good...

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RidinTheRange

RidinTheRange

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 10:35 PM, Reagan said:

G.A. (GARY AUTRY) MOORE, JR.
44 years; 426-92-9; 27-19-8
1962  Bryson   (6-Man)
1963  Pilot Point                6-3-0
1964  Pilot Point                7-3-0
1965  Pilot Point                8-1-2*
1966  Pilot Point                5-5-0
1967  Pilot Point                5-4-1
1968  Pilot Point              10-1-0*
1969  Pilot Point                8-2-0
1970  Pilot Point                7-3-0
1971  —ministry—
1972  Celina                      8-1-1
1973  Celina                      9-1-0
1974  Celina                    13-1-1*
1975  Celina                    13-1-0*
1976  Celina                      9-1-0
1977  Pilot Point                7-3-0
1978  Pilot Point                9-1-0
1979  Pilot Point              11-1-0*
1980  Pilot Point              14-0-1*
1981  Pilot Point              15-0-0*
1982  Pilot Point              12-1-0*
1983  Pilot Point              11-1-1*
1984  Pilot Point              10-1-0*
1985  Pilot Point              13-1-0*
1986  Sherman                 6-4-0
1987  Sherman                 6-4-0
1988  Celina                    13-2-0*
1989  Celina                      8-3-0 R
1990  Celina                      9-1-1*
1991  Celina                      8-2-0
1992  Celina                      8-3-0 R
1993  Celina                      7-3-0
1994  Celina                    11-1-0*
1995  Celina                    15-1-0 R
1996  Celina                    11-1-0*
1997  Celina                    11-3-0*
1998  Celina                    14-2-0 R
1999  Celina                    16-0-0*
2000  Celina                    16-0-0*
2001  Celina                    16-0-0*
2002  Pilot Point                7-4-0 T
2003  Pilot Point                7-5-0 T
2004  Pilot Point                8-3-0 R

I know we like to talk about Westerburg, but how about us talking about what G.A. Moore did?  Won a title at Celina, went to Pilot point won 2 in a row, then went back to Celina.  There he won one, then two years later won 4 in a row.  Did the talent just happen to show up at every school he showed up at?  Or was it his coaching ability that made this possible?  As I've said before, nothing's in a straight line.  There are no guarantees.  But, I think what could be somewhere at, or over, 90% of the time, an Elite coach (2 or more Titles) can/will win Titles at different schools.  Again, my opinion.

Celina folks only go the 4th qtr of the football game, because that's when the Celina kids get to play.

Heard that back in the 90s, when G.A. was the coach.

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Uncle Pig

Uncle Pig

Posted
Posted
On 4/12/2022 at 10:01 AM, RidinTheRange said:

Celina folks only go the 4th qtr of the football game, because that's when the Celina kids get to play.

Heard that back in the 90s, when G.A. was the coach.

Make no mistake Moore was a cheating fool; obviously a ton of games though. If you aren’t cheating you aren’t trying right?

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