Tarkington Open

[Mr. Thornton Melon]

19 hours ago, Reagan said:

I see what you are trying to say.  Let's look at a few things;

2001, Jerry Vance shows up.  1913 to 2000, Tarkington type-ish record.  In other words no State Titles.  In 6 years, Vance has a State Title.  Has another one the next year.  OK, you talk about population growth causing this.  Through the previous 87 years before Vance got there, don't you think maybe sometime towards the latter part of those 87 years, that there was population growth going on?  I would think so.  Hummm, but no State Titles.  OK, Vance shows up with 2 State Titles.  Later on, 2017 shows a new coach.  The next 4 years -- still no State Titles.  Let me ask you this:  With everything you think that brings a State Title, what -- did all of this just stop after Vance was no longer the coach?!  And if it was population, or whatever you think it was, then WHY was no other coach, except Vance, able to take advantage of this and win a State Title?

Liberty Hill running the Slot-T when it was still a rarity contributed a lot to their sudden success. The new coach didn't have the same element of surprise as Vance. Just saying

[89Falcon]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Thornton Melon said:

Liberty Hill running the Slot-T when it was still a rarity contributed a lot to their sudden success. The new coach didn't have the same element of surprise as Vance. Just saying

Also, the new coach has done just as well as Vance. Vance did not win the title every year he was at LH. 

[bullets13]

3 hours ago, PrairieMan said:

idk,

I would say your question is a very fair one. I think it's situational dependent but I will give you my take it on it. 

First of all, I don't know the actual numbers but from the outside looking in Tarkington, doesn't have the money or isn't willing to pay well compared to other schools. Handcuff that with either the inability or unwillingness to invest in athletic facilities and that's a start as to why coaches who have any success would not want to stay long. I mean just the mention of spending money on just a fieldhouse to upgrade the dilapidated one that's probably been there since my father was in school there, certainly was there when i was there and that's been a while, and people lose their minds. 

I mean 30-45 miles down the road, assistants are making close to or more than the AD/HC of the entire program. Considering just the normal headaches and additional responsibilities that comes with, who would want to deal with that for long unless you have some sort of ties to the area, school, etc???

The other scenario is you finally get a guy from the area to coach. Whether he does well or not, there is situational issues that have to be dealt with. People that you know well have kids in your program and you have to look those friends in the eye and tell them their kids don't deserve to start or worse don't belong on the team. People that you know don't like the play you picked or whatever and are now hollering from the stands, calling for your head because you didn't make the "right" decisions in their mind. I mean that's happening no matter where you go or who you are but it's likely a different feel when it's people you go to church with on Sunday or were at their house a couple weeks ago sharing your favorite beverages. Now you're getting paid less money, fighting the issues of less talent as a whole and having to look these people in the face day to day. 

Finally, the last and worst situation which doesn't typically include any success is you hire a guy from somewhere else who comes in with a big stick that's going to shake things up. Comes in and wants to clean things up but starts rubbing everyone the wrong way and nobody knows who you are you. You start running kids off because their attitude isn't right or they aren't putting forth the effort. One or two of those kids have some talent but because of the small town, they've always been catered to and they aren't used to somebody holding them accountable so they leave. Then the program in general can't compete so you lose a few other good players and now everyone is calling for your head because nobody knows you and you "ruined" their kids senior or junior year.

Nobody wants to go through a rebuilding year or two or three in high school. 99% of these kids will never play a down after high school so no parents of or kids that are seniors want to be a part of decimation of a program even if it does benefit the future of the program. They can't look past the fact their high school kids career was a total waste. I mean what can we say we can't all be superstars like everyone on these forums. From all the high and mighty comments on this page, I'm sure everyone here played college or pro ball. Most were probably the best players to ever come through their program, just ask them........so I'm sure it's hard to relate to these issues.  

I thought this was a great post until you poured all this salt on it.  

[bullets13]

18 hours ago, Separation Scientist said:

Well you know how it goes, some communities can be bashed, others cannot. Barbers Hill has had so much garbage spewed at it, its ridiculous. Haters gonna hate. 

In a similar vein, coaches are not supposed to be bashed here, per the site rules, but Art Briles is routinely beaten to a bloody pulp and no intervention happens. 

See, IT ALL DEPENDS.  

 

For what it's worth, the rules about bashing coaches and players only apply to local high school coaches and players.  Nobody cares if you want to talk crap about college or pro coaches and players.  

[scat_trap]

2 hours ago, 89Falcon said:

Also, the new coach has done just as well as Vance. Vance did not win the title every year he was at LH. 

The casual fan doesn't see that though.  Their focus is on how coaching can fix things because that's the easiest thing to be replaced.

[bullets13]

21 hours ago, Bronco/Cat Fan said:

Prairie Man and Texan007 commented on how some are making disparaging comments about kids playing sports and the community as a whole in areas such as Tarkington, WH, HD, and Hardin. I have seen comments about missing teeth, inbreeding, genetic disfunction, and communities needing a new gene pool regarding these communities before their sports programs can be successful and the moderators must have not seen these and called them out on it. I realize there are a lot of topics and comments made on SETX and can understand how they can be overlooked. I have enjoyed this Website for years and hope it continues. The posters that jump at every opportunity to downgrade these kids and communities must certainly do so from a very high perch and air of superiority over the little people from these communities. 

I just read this whole thread, and there was literally one comment on the very first page like the ones you're describing that was completely out of line, and that poster had already received a warning from another moderator.  The problem with threads like this is that some people can't handle any negativity about their communities and programs.  This thread contains a lot of truths surrounding the shortcomings ofTarkington football (which would also hold true to several other struggling programs in the area, including my alma mater), and some folks get defensive and don't want to hear it.  Apart from the one comment about inbreeding, for which the poster had already received a warning (I went back and just deleted the post), there's very little on here that criticizes the community or the school beyond issues pertaining to the football field.  I couldn't find a single post about an individual player or coach that was out of line, and just the one about the community as a whole that crossed the line.  Tarkington has averaged about 2 wins a year for the last decade.  Honest talk about the program, and what they've done (and haven't done) to improve that is not "downgrading the kids and community".  

[Reagan]

3 hours ago, 89Falcon said:

Also, the new coach has done just as well as Vance. Vance did not win the title every year he was at LH. 

Nothing is in a straight line.  BUT -- the fact that can't be ignored is he's the ONLY COACH to win a State Title, make that 2 State Titles, in Liberty Hill's history.   And, AGAIN -- everything that you and others' think goes into building a State Title type program, was going on before Vance and after Vance.  And, again, no Titles before Vance and after Vance.  Are are you trying to tell me that the population growth only happened when Vance was there?!

[Reagan]

On 3/22/2022 at 12:29 PM, oldschool2 said:

300 unathletic kids can't beat 15 good athletes.  Not on the football field.

You ever see a less athletic team win a football game?

[PrairieMan]

1 hour ago, bullets13 said:

I just read this whole thread, and there was literally one comment on the very first page like the ones you're describing that was completely out of line, and that poster had already received a warning from another moderator.  The problem with threads like this is that some people can't handle any negativity about their communities and programs.  This thread contains a lot of truths surrounding the shortcomings ofTarkington football (which would also hold true to several other struggling programs in the area, including my alma mater), and some folks get defensive and don't want to hear it.  Apart from the one comment about inbreeding, for which the poster had already received a warning (I went back and just deleted the post), there's very little on here that criticizes the community or the school beyond issues pertaining to the football field.  I couldn't find a single post about an individual player or coach that was out of line, and just the one about the community as a whole that crossed the line.  Tarkington has averaged about 2 wins a year for the last decade.  Honest talk about the program, and what they've done (and haven't done) to improve that is not "downgrading the kids and community".  

bullets13,

Calling Tarkington's kids or the people that live there names doesn't bother me. I'm not a part of the "offended" crowd. What gets me is the people on here that think or run their mouths like they truly know anything about the team or community. People that think that a certain coach was "run off" when they don't have a clue. I love how the group consensus is that ALL of Tarkington thinks their kids are D1 kids or that Tarkington parents are running coaches off in general. First off, every school and I mean EVERY from Chester to Duncanville has that one parent or set of parents that think the coach there is doing a horrible job. They could have won state last year, but wouldn't have lost that 1 game during the season if their kid would have played more downs, minutes, innings, etc. 

Even the guy that supposedly worked with Snelson in the 90's using him as the rarest example possible to prove that Tarkington parents from then didn't have a clue. I was around then and if there was anybody there that said that, I never heard it. The one thing I can tell you is I believe that was one of his early gigs and although I haven't had the chance to talk to him in forever, I promise you that the 2022 parents and kids could not handle a 90's Coach Snelson. He's a great man and I have nothing but respect for him, but I guarantee you even back then he rubbed somebody the wrong way and they were popping off at the mouth. 

If you guys want to have a discussion about things that are wrong at Tarkington, no problem, I'm in line to air my grievances as I've already done. But doesn't mean I going to sit idly by and watch some dude run his mouth about how they will never win and that they better schedule whatever school to ever get a victory just so he can get his jab in, then you are mistaken. I'm going to defend it EVERY time when it comes to that kind of thoughtless chatter (post). 

[bullets13]

42 minutes ago, PrairieMan said:

bullets13,

Calling Tarkington's kids or the people that live there names doesn't bother me. I'm not a part of the "offended" crowd. What gets me is the people on here that think or run their mouths like they truly know anything about the team or community. People that think that a certain coach was "run off" when they don't have a clue. I love how the group consensus is that ALL of Tarkington thinks their kids are D1 kids or that Tarkington parents are running coaches off in general. First off, every school and I mean EVERY from Chester to Duncanville has that one parent or set of parents that think the coach there is doing a horrible job. They could have won state last year, but wouldn't have lost that 1 game during the season if their kid would have played more downs, minutes, innings, etc. 

Even the guy that supposedly worked with Snelson in the 90's using him as the rarest example possible to prove that Tarkington parents from then didn't have a clue. I was around then and if there was anybody there that said that, I never heard it. The one thing I can tell you is I believe that was one of his early gigs and although I haven't had the chance to talk to him in forever, I promise you that the 2022 parents and kids could not handle a 90's Coach Snelson. He's a great man and I have nothing but respect for him, but I guarantee you even back then he rubbed somebody the wrong way and they were popping off at the mouth. 

If you guys want to have a discussion about things that are wrong at Tarkington, no problem, I'm in line to air my grievances as I've already done. But doesn't mean I going to sit idly by and watch some dude run his mouth about how they will never win and that they better schedule whatever school to ever get a victory just so he can get his jab in, then you are mistaken. I'm going to defend it EVERY time when it comes to that kind of thoughtless chatter (post). 

It’s all good.  You’re free to express your feelings (within the rules), just as they are.

[89Falcon]

4 hours ago, Reagan said:

Nothing is in a straight line.  BUT -- the fact that can't be ignored is he's the ONLY COACH to win a State Title, make that 2 State Titles, in Liberty Hill's history.   And, AGAIN -- everything that you and others' think goes into building a State Title type program, was going on before Vance and after Vance.  And, again, no Titles before Vance and after Vance.  Are are you trying to tell me that the population growth only happened when Vance was there?!

Ok, how many years has it been since Vance left? How many years was Vance in LH? How has the program done without Vance? Were they in the State Championship this year? Without Vance?  

[Bronco/Cat Fan]

6 hours ago, bullets13 said:

I just read this whole thread, and there was literally one comment on the very first page like the ones you're describing that was completely out of line, and that poster had already received a warning from another moderator.  The problem with threads like this is that some people can't handle any negativity about their communities and programs.  This thread contains a lot of truths surrounding the shortcomings ofTarkington football (which would also hold true to several other struggling programs in the area, including my alma mater), and some folks get defensive and don't want to hear it.  Apart from the one comment about inbreeding, for which the poster had already received a warning (I went back and just deleted the post), there's very little on here that criticizes the community or the school beyond issues pertaining to the football field.  I couldn't find a single post about an individual player or coach that was out of line, and just the one about the community as a whole that crossed the line.  Tarkington has averaged about 2 wins a year for the last decade.  Honest talk about the program, and what they've done (and haven't done) to improve that is not "downgrading the kids and community".  

Negativity about communities and their sports programs are one thing, but all three terms inbreeding, need a new gene pool, and genetic disfunction were all on the first page of this thread and totally inappropriate. Genetic disfunction post is the ninth post on the first page. The other terms were deleted. I made no mention in my post about any comments about a single player or coach that was out of line, nor did I comment on or was offended by any of that discussion. I think you were referring to a post by someone else. The missing teeth term referred to past posts about the same communities mentioned. Thank you for responding to my post. 

[Go-rilla]

Snelson in the 90’s was our football, basketball,track, and powerlifting coach. He was tough on his players, BUT he cared about his players. BTW a lot of those parents now played for him then. I hope that whoever they get cares for those kids the way Snelson did/ still does.

[PrairieMan]

56 minutes ago, Go-rilla said:

Snelson in the 90’s was our football, basketball,track, and powerlifting coach. He was tough on his players, BUT he cared about his players. BTW a lot of those parents now played for him then. I hope that whoever they get cares for those kids the way Snelson did/ still does.

Amen to that!!! One of the best coaches I’ve ever had. But you have to admit, todays kids couldn’t handle that Snelson.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

The same Snelson that's at Dickinson currently??

[PrairieMan]

7 hours ago, Mr. Buddy Garrity said:

The same Snelson that's at Dickinson currently??

Yes sir. One of the best high school coaches in the state!

[Guest mrtomcat]

Tarkington needs Walter Fortune.  He will get it turned around in a hurry.

[oldschool2]

On 3/25/2022 at 2:16 PM, Reagan said:

You ever see a less athletic team win a football game?

Of course.  Every year there’s a school (or multiple) that wins the title that wasn’t the most talented.  But.. doesn’t mean they were without talent.  Tarkington has a long way to go before becoming a consistently successful (relatively) football program.  A new hire isn’t going to change that overnight.. or even over the next however many years.  A lot of variables are needed. 

[scat_trap]

So this Tarkington thing is still going? 

There were 2 things I always heard from coaches.  Never take coach by a town by water because it's typically infested with river feeders or the retirement crew.  The 2nd thing I've heard from coaches is don't take a job when the school has a lot of online chatter.

[Reagan]

6 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

Of course.  Every year there’s a school (or multiple) that wins the title that wasn’t the most talented.  But.. doesn’t mean they were without talent.  Tarkington has a long way to go before becoming a consistently successful (relatively) football program.  A new hire isn’t going to change that overnight.. or even over the next however many years.  A lot of variables are needed. 

This is 100% correct.  It's a process that takes time.  Depending on how bad it is.  I used Liberty Hill as an example.  They were horrible before Vance got there.  Since things were so bad, it took him 6 years to win a Title.  But, the right coach would have to be dedicated to Tarkington.  If not, then all bets are off.  Tarkington, like Liberty Hill, Carthage, and Aledo at one time, will not attract an elite-type coach.  Schools in this losing situation "create" championship-style coaches.  

[oldschool2]

7 hours ago, Reagan said:

This is 100% correct.  It's a process that takes time.  Depending on how bad it is.  I used Liberty Hill as an example.  They were horrible before Vance got there.  Since things were so bad, it took him 6 years to win a Title.  But, the right coach would have to be dedicated to Tarkington.  If not, then all bets are off.  Tarkington, like Liberty Hill, Carthage, and Aledo at one time, will not attract an elite-type coach.  Schools in this losing situation "create" championship-style coaches.  

They were also horrible before a major population shift to the area.  Carthage and Aledo are in the same boat as far as a major influence of population growth, new business, and new money.  Just as schools can go from dominant to irrelevant.. so can the opposite happen.  In fact.. it absolutely happens.  Carthage and Aledo have some of the nicest facilities in the state coupled with communities willing to pour as much money as possible into the athletics program.  Is Tarkington willing to do that? 

[Guest mrtomcat]

24 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

They were also horrible before a major population shift to the area.  Carthage and Aledo are in the same boat as far as a major influence of population growth, new business, and new money.  Just as schools can go from dominant to irrelevant.. so can the opposite happen.  In fact.. it absolutely happens.  Carthage and Aledo have some of the nicest facilities in the state coupled with communities willing to pour as much money as possible into the athletics program.  Is Tarkington willing to do that? 

carthage population has been roughly 6000-6700 for the last 35 years.

[oldschool2]

14 minutes ago, mrtomcat said:

carthage population has been roughly 6000-6700 for the last 35 years.

Read the rest of the comment.  New natural gas discoveries in certain parts of central and east Texas have resulted in great things for a lot of school districts.  Carthage's indoor practice facility, turf stadium, state of the art weight room, jumbotron, etc.. just appeared out of nowhere?  Those types of perks available to athletes and students bring/keep great players and great coaches. 

[Reagan]

56 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

They were also horrible before a major population shift to the area.  Carthage and Aledo are in the same boat as far as a major influence of population growth, new business, and new money.  Just as schools can go from dominant to irrelevant.. so can the opposite happen.  In fact.. it absolutely happens.  Carthage and Aledo have some of the nicest facilities in the state coupled with communities willing to pour as much money as possible into the athletics program.  Is Tarkington willing to do that? 

Curious;  Did these happen before Surratt and Buchanan got there?  Also curious how many schools have nice facilities and can't/haven't won State Titles?

Plus, again, no State Titles before Surratt and Buchanan.  These guys must be the luckiest people in the world to show up at just the right time!

How about Stephenville?  Was that not all Briles?

[Guest mrtomcat]

9 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Read the rest of the comment.  New natural gas discoveries in certain parts of central and east Texas have resulted in great things for a lot of school districts.  Carthage's indoor practice facility, turf stadium, state of the art weight room, jumbotron, etc.. just appeared out of nowhere?  Those types of perks available to athletes and students bring/keep great players and great coaches. 

I assume the old oilfield businesses in carthage texas that have been around for 60+ years decided to finally invest into the ISD.  very few new pipeline, oilfield drilling, or startup companies new to carthage.  Perhaps a few of them had children, decided to hunker down in carthage and invest in their childrens future