Tarkington Open

[Reagan]

2 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

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Dang -- that looks awesome!  Thanks!

[oldschool2]

17 hours ago, Reagan said:

Oh, I forgot:  In his 1st year at Mount Vernon, Briles went to the playoffs with only having started the job 28 days before practice started.  THEN, the next year -- he brought them to heights the school had never seen before.  He brought them to one game away from the State Title.  There's a distinct possibility that the next year could have been another State Title for him.  But, we'll never know.   Heck, just replace the name Mount Vernon with Tarkington.  I'll admit that it would probably take more than a couple of years.   But no doubt in my mind, after he got his program started, like he did at Stephenville, 10 years would be enough.

Again.. I'll never take anything away from the knowledge of Art Briles or the success he's had in his career.  You do understand, though, that Mount Vernon had some pretty good seasons before Briles got there..  right? And.. Briles brought a coach with him that had a kid living with him that was a pretty good player.  If I remember correctly there was an issue with it for a while concerning the district committee.  Anyway.. point being that Briles stepping into an already successful Mount Vernon job is a far cry from someone stepping into a Tarkington team.  That's not personal.. it just is what it is.

[oldschool2]

17 hours ago, Reagan said:

Oh, I forgot:  In his 1st year at Mount Vernon, Briles went to the playoffs with only having started the job 28 days before practice started.  THEN, the next year -- he brought them to heights the school had never seen before.  He brought them to one game away from the State Title.  There's a distinct possibility that the next year could have been another State Title for him.  But, we'll never know.   Heck, just replace the name Mount Vernon with Tarkington.  I'll admit that it would probably take more than a couple of years.   But no doubt in my mind, after he got his program started, like he did at Stephenville, 10 years would be enough.

Again.. I'll never take anything away from the knowledge of Art Briles or the success he's had in his career.  You do understand, though, that Mount Vernon had some pretty good seasons before Briles got there..  right? And.. Briles brought a coach with him that had a kid living with him that was a pretty good player.  If I remember correctly there was an issue with it for a while concerning the district committee.  Anyway.. point being that Briles stepping into an already successful Mount Vernon job is a far cry from someone stepping into a Tarkington team.  That's not personal.. it just is what it is.

[oldschool2]

17 hours ago, Reagan said:

Oh, I forgot:  In his 1st year at Mount Vernon, Briles went to the playoffs with only having started the job 28 days before practice started.  THEN, the next year -- he brought them to heights the school had never seen before.  He brought them to one game away from the State Title.  There's a distinct possibility that the next year could have been another State Title for him.  But, we'll never know.   Heck, just replace the name Mount Vernon with Tarkington.  I'll admit that it would probably take more than a couple of years.   But no doubt in my mind, after he got his program started, like he did at Stephenville, 10 years would be enough.

Again.. I'll never take anything away from the knowledge of Art Briles or the success he's had in his career.  You do understand, though, that Mount Vernon had some pretty good seasons before Briles got there..  right? And.. Briles brought a coach with him that had a kid living with him that was a pretty good player.  If I remember correctly there was an issue with it for a while concerning the district committee.  Anyway.. point being that Briles stepping into an already successful Mount Vernon job is a far cry from someone stepping into a Tarkington team.  That's not personal.. it just is what it is.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

42 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Again.. I'll never take anything away from the knowledge of Art Briles or the success he's had in his career.  You do understand, though, that Mount Vernon had some pretty good seasons before Briles got there..  right? And.. Briles brought a coach with him that had a kid living with him that was a pretty good player.  If I remember correctly there was an issue with it for a while concerning the district committee.  Anyway.. point being that Briles stepping into an already successful Mount Vernon job is a far cry from someone stepping into a Tarkington team.  That's not personal.. it just is what it is.

Oh he knows, I've explained it to him more than once, so has another poster, I don't think he wants to accept it. The current HC there is doing a pretty good job at the moment, Finney laid that foundation for their turnaround. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, Mr. Buddy Garrity said:

Oh he knows, I've explained it to him more than once, so has another poster, I don't think he wants to accept it. The current HC there is doing a pretty good job at the moment, Finney laid that foundation for their turnaround. 🤷🏾‍♂️

Makes sense.  Speaking of Finney.. who is another excellent coach.. I believe he missed the playoffs this year despite his track record.  Just goes to show that it takes more than coaching.  Still gotta have horses in the stable. 

[Reagan]

32 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Makes sense.  Speaking of Finney.. who is another excellent coach.. I believe he missed the playoffs this year despite his track record.  Just goes to show that it takes more than coaching.  Still gotta have horses in the stable. 

At Winnsboro, he's actually gone downhill since he arrived.   So, let me understand something:  When Briles does something at Mount Vernon that no one has ever done, it's Finney that caused it.  But -- when at his new job, which has gotten worst since he arrived, it's NOT Finney's fault.  Let us think about that for awhile!

[oldschool2]

5 minutes ago, Reagan said:

At Winnsboro, he's actually has gone downhill since he arrived.   So, let me understand something:  When Briles does something at Mount Vernon that no one has ever done, it's Finney that caused it.  But -- when at his new job, which has gotten worst since he arrived, it's NOT Finney's fault.  Let us think about that for awhile!

Gotten worse?  I'm going to need an explanation.  If you're referring the 7-3 and 6-4 records.. you should look at the actual schedules.  There's a nifty little website called maxpreps.com where scores and schedules can be looked up with pretty consistent accuracy for any team and any year.  Losing two of the district games by 2 and 1 with a young, first year quarterback may not be considered "getting worse" to anyone with any football knowledge whatsoever.  Maybe just individuals that base everything on records alone.. like you I'm guessing.

Hey.. speaking of that.  Just inform the next Tarkington guy to schedule cupcakes in the preseason.  Maybe you're consider 5-5 as "turning the program around".  Oh but then he'll just leave after having mastered that feat.  Hmm... I don't know.  Quite the predicament y'all have over there. 

[Reagan]

40 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Gotten worse?  I'm going to need an explanation.  If you're referring the 7-3 and 6-4 records.. you should look at the actual schedules.  There's a nifty little website called maxpreps.com where scores and schedules can be looked up with pretty consistent accuracy for any team and any year.  Losing two of the district games by 2 and 1 with a young, first year quarterback may not be considered "getting worse" to anyone with any football knowledge whatsoever.  Maybe just individuals that base everything on records alone.. like you I'm guessing.

Hey.. speaking of that.  Just inform the next Tarkington guy to schedule cupcakes in the preseason.  Maybe you're consider 5-5 as "turning the program around".  Oh but then he'll just leave after having mastered that feat.  Hmm... I don't know.  Quite the predicament y'all have over there. 

Fact of the matter is, the record got worst.  I understand what you are trying to say.  But a championship-type coach doesn't matter who they play.  They'll find a way to win. So, with that being said, it appears that when Finney gets in the ring with the big dogs that he can't hang.  Or, would another excuse like, the natural gas boom hasn't reached Winnsboro yet?!  You think it mattered to Ethridge at PNG that he got Odessa Permian in finals?  Championship-Type coaches usually take care of business regardless the odds!  

Oh, BTW, records are FACTS.  Trying to rationalize why it happened, after the fact, is just personal opinions that can be changed on the spur of the moment.

[oldschool2]

7 minutes ago, Reagan said:

fact of the matter is, the record got worst.  I understand what you are trying to say.  But a championship-type coach doesn't care who they play.  They'll find a way to win. So, with that being said, it appears that when Finney gets in the ring with the big dogs that he can't hang.  Or, would another excuse like, the natural gas boom hasn't reached Winnsboro yet?!  You think Ethridge at PNG cared that he got Odessa Permian in finals?  Championship-Type coaches usually take care of business regardless the odds!  

Oh, BTW, records are FACTS.  Trying to rationalize why it happened, after the fact, is just personal opinions that can be changed on the spur of the moment.

Finney beat Briles.  That, too, is fact.

By the way, your rationale on the importance of record is a detriment to the quality of coaches.  It's really what's wrong with parents/fans.  Also... Odessa Permian isn't a great example to use in an argument that includes gas/oil booms.  

[BEARCPA]

28 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Finney beat Briles.  That, too, is fact.

By the way, your rationale on the importance of record is a detriment to the quality of coaches.  It's really what's wrong with parents/fans.  Also... Odessa Permian isn't a great example to use in an argument that includes gas/oil booms.  

Can't wait to see what kind of spin is put on this. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

5 minutes ago, BEARCPA said:

Can't wait to see what kind of spin is put on this. 

I'm sure it'll be a doozy to make you shake your head, always is. 😂

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

At Winnsboro, he's actually gone downhill since he arrived.   So, let me understand something:  When Briles does something at Mount Vernon that no one has ever done, it's Finney that caused it.  But -- when at his new job, which has gotten worst since he arrived, it's NOT Finney's fault.  Let us think about that for awhile!

Winnsboro was 4-6 and 2-8 in the two years before he arrived, then he went 9-5, 7-3, and 6-4.  Seems like he did a heck of a job, although he doesn't look close  to satisfying your mandatory state championship in 7 years requirement.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Gotta start treating Smitty's posts like how we used to do SNOOKS posts back in the day in this forum: straight up comedy level stuff, a great majority of the posts made absolutely no sense, but it was straight up comedy. 😂

[bullets13]

21 hours ago, Reagan said:

Oh, I forgot:  In his 1st year at Mount Vernon, Briles went to the playoffs with only having started the job 28 days before practice started.  THEN, the next year -- he brought them to heights the school had never seen before.  He brought them to one game away from the State Title.  There's a distinct possibility that the next year could have been another State Title for him.  But, we'll never know.   Heck, just replace the name Mount Vernon with Tarkington.  I'll admit that it would probably take more than a couple of years.   But no doubt in my mind, after he got his program started, like he did at Stephenville, 10 years would be enough.

Finney went 19-5 over two seasons at MV.  Briles took over (and brought a ringer player in with him) and went 20-6 over two seasons.  Thank God Briles was available to come in and rescue that program.  Then again, the guy after Briles went just as far with a 14-1 record in his first season.  So the coaches before and after Briles had better records?  Maybe he didn't have nearly the impact you're insinuating he did.  

[Reagan]

44 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Finney beat Briles.  That, too, is fact.

By the way, your rationale on the importance of record is a detriment to the quality of coaches.  It's really what's wrong with parents/fans.  Also... Odessa Permian isn't a great example to use in an argument that includes gas/oil booms.  

The first:  I think the natural gas boom disappeared that week.  JK.  I'll grant you this one.  

Unfortunately,  coaches are judged by their records.  Is there quality in a coach that goes 0-40?  With that being said, I think Finney is a decent coach.  Just not in the league, yet, with Briles.

Odessa and gas/oil boom:  Well, it didn't help them against PNG!   But maybe if they had concentrated on just the natural gas boom, you know, the one that was/is responsible for all of Surratt's State Titles,  then they would have beat PNG!  LOL!

[Reagan]

3 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

Finney went 19-5 over two seasons at MV.  Briles took over (and brought a ringer player in with him) and went 20-6 over two seasons.  Thank God Briles was available to come in and rescue that program.  

Briles brought MV to one game away from State.  No other coach has done that at Mount Vernon.  Again --  a fact!

[bullets13]

2 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Briles brought MV to one game away from State.  No other coach has done that at Mount Vernon.  Again --  a fact!

Brad Willard literally just took Mount Vernon to the same place in  his first season with MV, and with a much better record than Briles had.  They lost in OT to then 15-0 Brock in the state semis this season -----An actual fact.  

[Reagan]

Just now, bullets13 said:

Brad Willard literally just took Mount Vernon to the same place in  his first season with MV, and with a much better record than Briles had.  -----An actual fact.  

True!  But according to you and other's it was Briles that laid the foundation.  My friend, you can't have it both ways!  But , again, Briles did it first after many coaches tried.  Just like Briles was the first to win a Title at Stephenville.  It will be interesting to see what Willard does this year.  If he wins a Title then it was all him.  If he take a slide, then it was Brile's foundation.

[bullets13]

24 minutes ago, Reagan said:

True!  But according to you and other's it was Briles that laid the foundation.  My friend, you can't have it both ways!  But , again, Briles did it first after many coaches tried.  Just like Briles was the first to win a Title at Stephenville.  It will be interesting to see what Willard does this year.  If he wins a Title then it was all him.  If he take a slide, then it was Brile's foundation.

 I don't want it either way.  You're the one who wants it both ways.  Briles gets all the credit for taking a team that Finney built up and doing basically the same as Finney but having one good playoff run, but the next guy comes in and does better than Briles and goes just as far in the playoffs, and you're willing to attribute it to "Brile's foundation."  The truth of the matter is they both built off of Finney's foundation.   Only in Smitty-think is it possible to make the argument that a coach can take over a team with 6 wins in the  two previous seasons, go 19-5 in his two seasons there, be replaced by a guy who goes 20-6 in two seasons, who's then replaced by a guy who's 14-1 his first year, and give all of the credit to the guy in the middle.

[Socrates]

Tarkingto Open to the history of Art Briles...

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

The first:  I think the natural gas boom disappeared that week.  JK.  I'll grant you this one.  

Unfortunately,  coaches are judged by their records.  Is there quality in a coach that goes 0-40?  With that being said, I think Finney is a decent coach.  Just not in the league, yet, with Briles.

Odessa and gas/oil boom:  Well, it didn't help them against PNG!   But maybe if they had concentrated on just the natural gas boom, you know, the one that was/is responsible for all of Surratt's State Titles,  then they would have beat PNG!  LOL!

I actually like how much emphasis you’re placing on the gas/oil thing as if I said it was the only contributing factor.  Any intelligent person would know that natural resources-jobs-population-money contribute to successes within the community.  Including schools.  Any intelligent person also knows it takes more than that (Sabine Pass).  And that it takes more than numbers (Allen).  But go ahead.. I’m glad you’re enjoying yourself.

Relevant question: Is Phil Danaher “in the league” with Briles?  I’m trying to get your exact requirements.  Danaher has won more games than any Texas coach alive.. but not the last one.  Or is that what it takes? There’s a lot of coaches nobody has heard of that won it all but never got close again.  Even doing poorly afterwards.  They in the league?  Help me out so I know how to judge a good/bad coach.

[Reagan]

On 3/29/2022 at 4:05 PM, BEARCPA said:

So going by this logic I am going to assume that you have won a state championship as a head football coach, because you seem to be an expert on what it takes to win a state championship based on all your posts on here. 

No.  So, you believe that people can't have knowledge of anything out side their chosen field through study, observation and historical perceptive?  Like, for instance, that people can't understand the Bible because only a preacher can? One doesn't have to be an expert to connect the dots!

So, how many State Championships have you won, as a head football coach?

[BEARCPA]

24 minutes ago, Reagan said:

No.  So, you believe that people can't have knowledge of anything out side their chosen field through study, observation and historical perceptive?  Like, for instance, that people can't understand the Bible because only a preacher can? One doesn't have to be an expert to connect the dots!

So, how many State Championships have you won, as a head football coach?

No, I was simply taking your logic and applying it to your views on football coaches. "It's like we are having a topic debate/discussion on high school bands.  95-98% of this forum, including me, has no first hand knowledge of playing in the high school band.  So, for decent and somewhat expert opinions, I would defer to someone that has been involved in the band."

This logic tells me that your opinions on here are invalid because you've never won a state championship as a head football coach. So, for decent and somewhat expert opinions, I will defer to someone that has been involved in winning a state championship in football.

Like you, I have never been involved in winning a state championship. But unlike you, I don't have a meritless set of criteria that defines a coach's success that I try to shove down everyone's throats. 

[Reagan]

On 3/30/2022 at 8:52 AM, oldschool2 said:

Again.. I'll never take anything away from the knowledge of Art Briles or the success he's had in his career.  You do understand, though, that Mount Vernon had some pretty good seasons before Briles got there..  right? And.. Briles brought a coach with him that had a kid living with him that was a pretty good player.  If I remember correctly there was an issue with it for a while concerning the district committee.  Anyway.. point being that Briles stepping into an already successful Mount Vernon job is a far cry from someone stepping into a Tarkington team.  That's not personal.. it just is what it is.

I don't think anybody would reasonably doubt that Briles with everything he's accomplished would not need a mid-level coach to lay a foundation for him to be successful.  People would look at the two's resume and without flinching would point to Briles as the better coach.   Again -- Briles -- 4 State Championships     Finney -- 0

BTW -- nothing is ever personal!