Roe versus Wade draft seems to overturn

[bullets13]

3 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

One day you’ll find out you’re wrong, hopefully sooner than later.

My mind won't be changed any more than yours will.   

[bullets13]

2 hours ago, 5GallonBucket said:

 

So if a baby is born and left alone can it still live?

If you're against abortion then why are you okay with birth control?  same thing, right?  

[SmashMouth]

Just now, bullets13 said:

If you're against abortion then why are you okay with birth control?  same thing, right?  

C'mon bullets. I read your posts. You're a smart guy. Birth control ("the pill", condoms) prevent the pregnancy from ever occurring. No life ever began in those instances. Gotta do better than that buddy...

[bullets13]

12 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

C'mon bullets. I read your posts. You're a smart guy. Birth control ("the pill", condoms) prevent the pregnancy from ever occurring. No life ever began in those instances. Gotta do better than that buddy...

I think you missed the point I was making there.  He compared the near instantaneous termination of a tiny fetus inside of the womb that has no chance of surviving on it's own to letting a fully formed baby that has actually been born starve to death by not taking care of it.  I was simply countering with an equally preposterous comparison.  

[SmashMouth]

5 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I think you missed the point I was making there.  He compared terminating a fetus inside of the womb that has no chance of surviving on it's own to letting a baby that has been born starve to death by not taking care of it.  I was simply countering with an equally preposterous comparison.  

I understand what you were doing, I just felt like your rebuttal did not hold any water. You actually make his point though. The "fetus", as you call it, or "life" as I call it (heart beats, takes in nourishment, reacts to outside stimulus) are in the same predicament. If either are neglected ("by not taking care of it") then both will die. The two only differ as a matter of geography. One's in the womb and one is out...that's it.

[Reagan]

‘My Life Has Value’: Pennsylvania Senate Candidate Kathy Barnette Talks Being Conceived in Rape.  From the article:  

"Barnette’s mother made an appearance in the video and described how aborting her daughter was never a choice for her.

“I thank God it wasn’t a choice for me,” Barnette’s mother said in the video."

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[bullets13]

10 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

I understand what you were doing, I just felt like your rebuttal did not hold any water. You actually make his point though. The "fetus", as you call it, or "life" as I call it (heart beats, takes in nourishment, reacts to outside stimulus) are in the same predicament. If either are neglected ("by not taking care of it") then both will die. The two only differ as a matter of geography. One's in the womb and one is out...that's it.

well, by your point, the fetus and the egg are in the same predicament as well, because a small dose of medicine renders both inert.  But there's still a much larger difference than "one is in the womb, and one is out".  while in the womb at an early stage, the fetus is still fully reliant on the mother, and will die without her, and not just without her, but without her body.  The baby outside of the womb (and even a fetus of 24 weeks or so) will die without care, but can be cared for by anyone.  That child no longer needs the mother's body to survive, and at that point (IMO) there is no argument to be made for "my body, my choice".  I get that many on here don't agree with me (this board is overwhelmingly old, male, white, and conservative, and that's by far the #1 anti-abortion demographic), and i honestly don't care.  but his comparison was as equally outlandish as my rebuttal.  

[SmashMouth]

13 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

well, by your point, the fetus and the egg are in the same predicament as well, because a small dose of medicine renders both inert.  But there's still a much larger difference than "one is in the womb, and one is out".  while in the womb at an early stage, the fetus is still fully reliant on the mother, and will die without her, and not just without her, but without her body.  The baby outside of the womb (and even a fetus of 24 weeks or so) will die without care, but can be cared for by anyone.  That child no longer needs the mother's body to survive, and at that point (IMO) there is no argument to be made for "my body, my choice".  I get that many on here don't agree with me (this board is overwhelmingly old, male, white, and conservative, and that's by far the #1 anti-abortion demographic), and i honestly don't care.  but his comparison was as equally outlandish as my rebuttal.  

Correct, they never made a life. There was never a heartbeat. There was never conception. There was never life!

[bullets13]

anywho, i'm done on this thread.  The same usual folks made the same tired arguments (myself included), nobody's mind was changed, and nothing was accomplished.  It's always kind of a waste of time when 90% of people in the conversation are coming from the same demographic, as it leads to an inflated belief of how representative your viewpoints are to the majority of the country.  That said, carry on, and we can find something else to agree on (Biden sucks)

[SmashMouth]

4 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

That said, carry on, and we can find something else to agree on (Biden sucks)

Agreed on that. 

[baddog]

If you drive drunk and kill a pregnant woman, you can be charged with the murder of her child. I have never heard of any court saying that it was just a fetus. Do they discuss what trimester she was in?….Nope

 There, that’s not very lame.

[CardinalBacker]

3 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Let’s see, do I want to be a member of the young hipster party that has no problem snuffing out the lives of unborn children for convenience or the party of old fuddy duddies that would love to save every one of them? 🤔 

You mean, the old fuddy duddies who aren't going to be around to raise them anyways?

[LumRaiderFan]

1 minute ago, CardinalBacker said:

You mean, the old fuddy duddies who aren't going to be around to raise them anyways?

Already raised all mine, currently investing heavily in raising others.  Still choosing party #2, I see you aren't.

[CardinalBacker]

44 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

anywho, i'm done on this thread.  The same usual folks made the same tired arguments (myself included), nobody's mind was changed, and nothing was accomplished.  It's always kind of a waste of time when 90% of people in the conversation are coming from the same demographic, as it leads to an inflated belief of how representative your viewpoints are to the majority of the country.  That said, carry on, and we can find something else to agree on (Biden sucks)

I agree.. glad the discourse has been cordial.  

I think that most of don't favor abortion on demand.... I think that what we should all probably focus on is a better way to express our views.  You know, share them in a matter that doesn't alienate pretty much everybody that doesn't pay tithes at the Westboro Baptist Church.  

There's nothing more offensive and counterproductive than some old white dude with a body count of 1 hollering "YOU'VE GOT BLOOD ON YOUR BABY-KILLING HANDS!!!! IT'S MURDER!!!!  YOU MADE YOUR BED, NOW LIE IN IT!!!!"  

Press your state rep to push for low/no cost adoptions here in Texas.  If we can afford to pay for legal defense for the indigent, we should be able to scratch up the funds for court appointed adoption attorneys.   Share a vision of hope instead of a hateful display.  Make the world a better place, not just yelling until you get your way and then leaving everybody else to worry about the unfortunate outcomes (poverty, crime, child abuse/neglect) that come when moms are forced to give birth to unwanted kids. 

[Bobcat1]

4 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I think that it's probably good to note what this anticipated ruling actually means, at least as I understand it.  With Roe and Casey overturned, the matter would be left up to the individual states to decide whether it's legal or not.  Texas recently enacted one of the most restrictive laws regarding abortion in the state.  I fully expect that law to be challenged, but I also expect a push here to enact another even more restrictive law, perhaps a total ban on abortions in Texas.  I also expect any number of laws nation wide to be challenged by pro-choice forces immediately.  I think at the end of the day all that we're doing is setting up an ongoing series of legal actions legalizing, then criminalizing abortion based on a one or two vote margin in the supreme court.  

The reversal really isn't going to do a whole lot other than cause more trouble.  And it'll cause even more damage to the republican cause because every day there are Pro-lifers dying off and pro choicers turning 18 and earning the right to vote, and they will likely not vote for the party of old dudes that want to force their beliefs on everybody else.

 

It will "stop" less than 10% of all abortions in the US. I posted a link to an article on the first page about it. 

[LumRaiderFan]

Anyone that wants to make a difference should volunteer time or give money to a pregnancy hope center.  Nothing saves the life of a baby more often when the mother is not sure about what to do than her seeing the baby on an ultrasound or hearing the heartbeat.

Not to be confused with planned parenthood which is nothing more than an abortion mill and parts harvester.

[baddog]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

I agree.. glad the discourse has been cordial.  

I think that most of don't favor abortion on demand.... I think that what we should all probably focus on is a better way to express our views.  You know, share them in a matter that doesn't alienate pretty much everybody that doesn't pay tithes at the Westboro Baptist Church.  

There's nothing more offensive and counterproductive than some old white dude with a body count of 1 hollering "YOU'VE GOT BLOOD ON YOUR BABY-KILLING HANDS!!!! IT'S MURDER!!!!  YOU MADE YOUR BED, NOW LIE IN IT!!!!"  

Press your state rep to push for low/no cost adoptions here in Texas.  If we can afford to pay for legal defense for the indigent, we should be able to scratch up the funds for court appointed adoption attorneys.   Share a vision of hope instead of a hateful display.  Make the world a better place, not just yelling until you get your way and then leaving everybody else to worry about the unfortunate outcomes (poverty, crime, child abuse/neglect) that come when moms are forced to give birth to unwanted kids. 

So, (I like starting a sentence with that word. Makes me feel like a lib who’s gonna mistranslate anything someone says) you make it sound as if all the anti-abortion crowd is a bunch of old white men. So, shouldn’t the opposite be true? Actually, there are lots of women in the anti crowd. Just easier to lump into a convenient group. So, why don’t I see minorities in the pro crowd? You should really stop grouping people. It loses any edge you are trying to get with your argument.

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Anyone that wants to make a difference should volunteer time or give money to a pregnancy hope center.  Nothing saves the life of a baby more often when the mother is not sure about what to do than her seeing the baby on an ultrasound or hearing the heartbeat.

Not to be confused with planned parenthood which is nothing more than an abortion mill and parts harvester.

I support this wholeheartedly (and this really is my last post on the thread).  A big part of the exception I take with the pro-life crowd is how seldom most of them put their money and time where their mouth is.  Even being pro-choice, I want abortions to be cheap, safe, and most importantly, rare.  Anything states can do to improve the situations and mindset of pregnant women in bad spots is a win in my book.

[LumRaiderFan]

11 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I support this wholeheartedly (and this really is my last post on the thread).  A big part of the exception I take with the pro-life crowd is how seldom most of them put their money and time where their mouth is.  Even being pro-choice, I want abortions to be cheap, safe, and most importantly, rare.  Anything states can do to improve the situations and mindset of pregnant women in bad spots is a win in my book.

The pro life crowd spends much more private money for their cause than the pro abortion crowd…not even close.

[Crawford]

4 hours ago, baddog said:

If you drive drunk and kill a pregnant woman, you can be charged with the murder of her child. I have never heard of any court saying that it was just a fetus. Do they discuss what trimester she was in?….Nope

 There, that’s not very lame.

I wondered about that when Scott Peterson killed his pregnant wife Laci Peterson. The media kept saying he killed his wife and his unborn child. I'm like, oh, now they want to acknowledge that it is considered murdering a unborn child. Found out later that they could say that because it was a wanted pregnancy by Laci Peterson. It's sad when a unborn child is only considered human life only if the mother says it is.

[baddog]

I don’t have to adopt a kid to be pro life. Whose rule is that? Trying for higher ground with that sentiment is ridiculous. No one on here knows how abortion has personally affected me. My reasons for being pro-life are my own.

[Unwoke]

Who cares anymore that liberals are upset about the SCOTUS ruling on Roe vs Wade. These lunatics want to groom your kids in public schools, and have drag queens read books to them in public libraries. They want to cheat in every public election to stay in power, and force you to apologize for being a racist to keep your job - there’s no living in peace with these people. Stop pretending you can negotiate with these cultural terrorist.

[Unwoke]

Democrats want 9 unelected judges deciding the abortion issue and not the American citizens through the states.
 

As United States citizens we have a 100% right to have a say so on an issue as important as life.

The Supreme Court ruling should be 9-0

[Separation Scientist]

On 5/4/2022 at 2:19 PM, CardinalBacker said:

 

One thing I have always wondered about, the Hollywood elites who are the most obnoxious, loud mouthed pro abortion people on the planet, INSIST on gushing over whatever celebrity happens to have a "baby bump" on the red carpet.    

What? a BABY bump? How can that be?

Blazin' hypocrites. 

[Unwoke]

Don’t give these people a millimeter!