hardin open

[oldschool2]

3 minutes ago, Cats01 said:

Ummm. 12 year olds play football, bro. 

I'm aware.. bro.. but what are you basing their level of talent on?  12 year old kids don't play football against other 12 year old kids that they'll play against in high school.  Not at all, actually.  So.. who are the 12 year old football players from Hardin playing football against that you can say they're talented? 12 year olds from East Chambers? From Woodville? Anahuac?

And the number of kids that move, fail, quit, stop growing, etc. between the ages of 12 and 18 makes your comment a little useless.  

[Cats01]

34 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

I'm aware.. bro.. but what are you basing their level of talent on?  12 year old kids don't play football against other 12 year old kids that they'll play against in high school.  Not at all, actually.  So.. who are the 12 year old football players from Hardin playing football against that you can say they're talented? 12 year olds from East Chambers? From Woodville? Anahuac?

And the number of kids that move, fail, quit, stop growing, etc. between the ages of 12 and 18 makes your comment a little useless.  

Hardin 12 year olds play against 12 year olds from the following:

EC

Cleveland

Splendora

Tarkington

Anahuac

Liberty

I retract my “bro” comment from earlier. You clearly don’t like being called “bro”. I have no interest in arguing with you, buddy. Have a good one. 

[KF89]

Most area Youth football Leagues dating back to the early 2000's are made up of teams ages 6 to 12 yrs old from towns that will play each other from jr high thru high school. So yes it is a good way to judge which groups will be talented, Imo.   

[oldschool2]

5 minutes ago, Cats01 said:

Hardin 12 year olds play against 12 year olds from the following:

EC

Cleveland

Splendora

Tarkington

Anahuac

Liberty

I retract my “bro” comment from earlier. You clearly don’t like being called “bro”. I have no interest in arguing with you, buddy. Have a good one. 

I have no problem being called bro.. I'm probably a little old to be called that or call someone that. But, whatever.  And it's not an argument.  You are actually helping prove the point.  Half of the schools you listed will never play Hardin in football.  As if it matters anyway.. because I guarantee that a vast majority of the kids that play little league football in those schools won't represent the actual varsity players when those 12 year olds get to high school.

And even the relative same sized schools isn't a good representative either.  Saying that Hardin is talented as 6th graders because their 6th graders beat whoever's 6th graders is similar to claiming a kid will go pro because they pitched a no-hitter in the local little league.

Assume those 12 year old kids possess some ability.  They won't EVER play against only the kids in their same grade once they get to high school.  When they're 9th graders, they get to play everybody's 9-12 graders.  That's a huge difference.  Especially considering the other schools will likely have more coaches, better facilities, and more transfers.  I'm sorry, but predicting the future success based on what is seen in 6/7/8 grade simply won't do anything.  I won a spelling competition in my 3rd grade class one time.. does that mean I should have been a national spelling bee champion?  Not hardly. 

[navydawg31]

1 minute ago, KF89 said:

Most area Youth football Leagues dating back to the early 2000's are made up of teams ages 6 to 12 yrs old from towns that will play each other from jr high thru high school. So yes it is a good way to judge which groups will be talented, Imo.   

I used to say that until about 7 years ago…. Lot of kids first year of football are now middle school. To many kids choosing select baseball over football in youth leagues. If someone says 7th or 8th grade group is dominate then I will listen, youth football is not what it used to be

[oldschool2]

4 minutes ago, KF89 said:

Most area Youth football Leagues dating back to the early 2000's are made up of teams ages 6 to 12 yrs old from towns that will play each other from jr high thru high school. So yes it is a good way to judge which groups will be talented, Imo.   

This is not the first time I've seen/heard of youth or junior high football teams in Hardin having some ability.  I've never one time seen it translate to varsity success. 

[KF89]

8 minutes ago, navydawg31 said:

I used to say that until about 7 years ago…. Lot of kids first year of football are now middle school. To many kids choosing select baseball over football in youth leagues. If someone says 7th or 8th grade group is dominate then I will listen, youth football is not what it used to be

It's just a simple general way to judge if an age group has a majority of kids that are good at that level with the possibility of it translating thru jr. high & high school each year they stay together & play. One example is the WOS groups that went to the State Championship game 4 years in a row. Anyone that watched those groups play from 8yr old thru 12 yr old football knew they were a very talented group. I'm sure most stayed playing football, which translated into the great success they had in high school. I have no idea about talent levels from Hardin, but if the man says these groups now are more talented then he usually has seen then that's cool, they will get that chance to prove it.  

[navydawg31]

11 minutes ago, KF89 said:

It's just a simple general way to judge if an age group has a majority of kids that are good at that level with the possibility of it translating thru jr. high & high school each year they stay together & play. One example is the WOS groups that went to the State Championship game 4 years in a row. Anyone that watched those groups play from 8yr old thru 12 yr old football knew they were a very talented group. I'm sure most stayed playing football, which translated into the great success they had in high school. I have no idea about talent levels from Hardin, but if the man says these groups now are more talented then he usually has seen then that's cool, they will get that chance to prove it.  

Oh yeah agreed. The old saying goes if you are talking about middle school and 12 year old age group this far out… you are in for a long road of some bad seasons coming up..

[CardinalBacker]

4 hours ago, KF89 said:

It's just a simple general way to judge if an age group has a majority of kids that are good at that level with the possibility of it translating thru jr. high & high school each year they stay together & play. One example is the WOS groups that went to the State Championship game 4 years in a row. Anyone that watched those groups play from 8yr old thru 12 yr old football knew they were a very talented group. I'm sure most stayed playing football, which translated into the great success they had in high school. I have no idea about talent levels from Hardin, but if the man says these groups now are more talented then he usually has seen then that's cool, they will get that chance to prove it.  

Yeah... which makes it so much more frustrating that BC wore them out in STJFL, 7th grade, and lost a close one in 8th grade. 

But it also goes to show that you really can't pick a future top performer based on youth football or even JH football. 

[KF89]

26 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Yeah... which makes it so much more frustrating that BC wore them out in STJFL, 7th grade, and lost a close one in 8th grade. 

But it also goes to show that you really can't pick a future top performer based on youth football or even JH football. 

I thought baseball & high school coaches at b.c.  had alot to do with the demise of that infamous great group of cardinal football players from stjfl?

[CardinalBacker]

1 minute ago, KF89 said:

I thought baseball & high school coaches at b.c.  had alot to do with the demise of that infamous great group of cardinal football players from stjfl?

honestly, we had a really good STJFL staff but the staff at the JH and high school were not very good for about four years there.  I can remember watching the kids from WOS warm up before the 8th grade game and they were all practicing techniques and drills.  Ours were doing backbends and stuff... just playing around and I thought then that it didn't look good.  Coach Stump and his staff had that group from 7th grade until Coach Dubois arrived in the spring of their sophomore year and salvaged a third round appearance their senior year (2016).  They just wasted too much developmental time those four long years.  I'm not saying that our kids would have developed into a powerhouse like WOS had those years... that was a very, very special bunch among all of TX high school football.  But our kids could have done better than they did if not for wasted time, in my biased opinion. 

It's also important to note that the freshman group from BC in 2016 went undefeated in district and were heralded as the next big thing.  I think they won one or two games as seniors, total.  You really can't judge what a group will do based on performance at lower levels. 

[KF89]

1 minute ago, CardinalBacker said:

honestly, we had a really good STJFL staff but the staff at the JH and high school were not very good for about four years there.  I can remember watching the kids from WOS warm up before the 8th grade game and they were all practicing techniques and drills.  Ours were doing backbends and stuff... just playing around and I thought then that it didn't look good.  Coach Stump and his staff had that group from 7th grade until Coach Dubois arrived in the spring of their sophomore year and salvaged a third round appearance their senior year (2016).  They just wasted too much developmental time those four long years.  I'm not saying that our kids would have developed into a powerhouse like WOS had those years... that was a very, very special bunch among all of TX high school football.  But our kids could have done better than they did if not for wasted time, in my biased opinion. 

It's also important to note that the freshman group from BC in 2016 went undefeated in district and were heralded as the next big thing.  I think they won one or two games as seniors, total.  You really can't judge what a group will do based on performance at lower levels. 

I agree the b.c. youth coaches at that time were very good. Not sure how the high school coaches messed that up? Most of the groups i seen that had winning success starting in youth continued winning in high school, yes there were some that under achieved & yes there were some that were more hyped up by parents  that were not actually that good.

[CardinalBacker]

7 minutes ago, KF89 said:

I agree the b.c. youth coaches at that time were very good. Not sure how the high school coaches messed that up? Most of the groups i seen that had winning success starting in youth continued winning in high school, yes there were some that under achieved & yes there were some that were more hyped up by parents  that were not actually that good.

WOS has (had) a much better program once the kids got into JH ball... it doesn't hurt when the program is implemented by a hall-of-famer.  I'll be the first to claim that our kids didn't develop even a little between being 6th graders in the STJFL and playing varsity ball.  That class won a game or possibly two as sophomores, then made a first round exit in 2015, then went undefeated in District and three rounds in 16.  If a coach can come in and install the Slot T before their junior year (an offense to which they'd never been exposed) and have that kind of success, it tells you that the coaching was an issue right up until Coach Dubois arrived.  

[oldschool2]

16 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

honestly, we had a really good STJFL staff but the staff at the JH and high school were not very good for about four years there.  I can remember watching the kids from WOS warm up before the 8th grade game and they were all practicing techniques and drills.  Ours were doing backbends and stuff... just playing around and I thought then that it didn't look good.  Coach Stump and his staff had that group from 7th grade until Coach Dubois arrived in the spring of their sophomore year and salvaged a third round appearance their senior year (2016).  They just wasted too much developmental time those four long years.  I'm not saying that our kids would have developed into a powerhouse like WOS had those years... that was a very, very special bunch among all of TX high school football.  But our kids could have done better than they did if not for wasted time, in my biased opinion. 

It's also important to note that the freshman group from BC in 2016 went undefeated in district and were heralded as the next big thing.  I think they won one or two games as seniors, total.  You really can't judge what a group will do based on performance at lower levels. 

Only point I was trying to make. 

[oldschool2]

1 minute ago, sooner said:

I get your point, but for myself, along with the many others I have personally interviewed and had coutnless hours of discussion with, a coach always asks admin/community/other coaches "what do we have at the lower levels" when they get ready to take on that new position.  

 There has to be potential down there, no question.  But nothing that happens at lower levels guarantees anything in the future. 

[rolltide3315]

Tons of Applicantions Recieved, Narrowing Down potential candidates over the next few days to start the  Interviewing process next week, I’m sure they plan on having a HC named by Mid June! 

[purpleeagle]

On 5/24/2022 at 10:09 AM, KF89 said:

Most area Youth football Leagues dating back to the early 2000's are made up of teams ages 6 to 12 yrs old from towns that will play each other from jr high thru high school. So yes it is a good way to judge which groups will be talented, Imo.   

They need to order their state championship rings now because the price will be much higher in a few years. 

[KF89]

36 minutes ago, purpleeagle said:

They need to order their state championship rings now because the price will be much higher in a few years. 

I agree 100%. Liberalism & Inflation aint no joke on the bank account.$$$

[The Icon]

Toby 

[oldschool2]

I’m sure Art Briles would bring a championship by the time these JH kids graduate.

Sorry.. I couldn’t even finish typing without laughing.

[buffington33]

On 5/24/2022 at 4:13 PM, sooner said:

How many coaches does Hardin currently have on the boys side (Football) coaches that is ?  And will they look to hire from within ?

1 HS Coach & 2 Junior High Coaches Is All That Is Left

[2wedge]

On 5/30/2022 at 6:19 AM, buffington33 said:

1 HS Coach & 2 Junior High Coaches Is All That Is Left

If this is true, its really bad. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Would Hardin and Hull-Daisetta ever consider consolidating?? They're fairly close to each other as far as area. 

[2wedge]

18 hours ago, Mr. Buddy Garrity said:

Would Hardin and Hull-Daisetta ever consider consolidating?? They're fairly close to each other as far as area. 

It's been rumored for years, but I do not think it will ever happen. Hardin is a pretty desirable district for people in the area and lots of kids actually zoned to HD choose to go there. Athletically, consolidating with HD can only hurt Hardin because it would ensure they would never drop the classification really needed for Hardin to become competitive. I think they missed 2Ad1 by about 6 ish kids this past year. As discussed on other threads, Hardin volleyball is a great program and will continue to be that way as long as the Snell's are in town. All of those things equal a slim to none probability that a consolidation of the HD and Hardin district ever happens.

Based on what we are hearing here, I think Hardin's football program is probably about to drop to a level of obscurity that no one even thought existed. As we speak, one high school football coach is trying (maybe) to keep interest in the program up, maintain summer conditioning for all athletes, and try to figure out who he is going to work for/with next season. This is BAD. Add to that the fact that admin just signaled their unwillingness to support the things needed to build the football program by denying the request to add additional staff in the upcoming year, and you have a recipe for chaos. This actually might be the final nail in a coffin that has been closed for many many years.

If I had a kid in that district, and he had any interest in pursuing football in high school at all, I would do anything I could to get him somewhere else. Hell, even Liberty is at least decent shape and has renewed hope and excitement around the new coach. It's really a shame. 

[purpleeagle]

Two bad programs does not equal a good program. Would not that increase in students put you in a higher class.