Port Neches Officers Shoot, Kill Man

[SmashMouth]

15 hours ago, tvc184 said:

Tikka Masala and Butter Chicken are about 95% the same flavor. TK has a good bit of onion where BC doesn’t have onions. I usually see more heavy cream in BC and most but not all BC recipes use pureed cashews. TM and BC are almost different versions of the same dish.

I love spicy food including spicy curry. Some curry dishes obviously have a very strong taste (but awesome in my opinion) but some like BC or coconut fish curry are pretty mild. I make the coconut milk and fish curry once in a while. 

Yep, I’m a huge fan. 

[5GallonBucket]

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It could’ve easily been avoided if he complied

very simple people

[bullets13]

57 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

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It could’ve easily been avoided if he complied

very simple people

It always bothers me when I see stories like this.  Out of one side of her mouth she says she wants the truth, then out of the other side of her mouth she says it could’ve been avoided, and that the officers had other options.  If you don’t yet know the truth then how can you possibly say that the officers didn’t do the right thing? If the criminal rammed a cop car with a stolen vehicle and then jumped out with a handgun, this is about as justified as it gets.  I saw an interview with one of this guy’s friends when it first happened and his buddy put all of the blame on him and his bad decisions.  I was pleasantly surprised.

[tvc184]

4 hours ago, bullets13 said:

It always bothers me when I see stories like this.  Out of one side of her mouth she says she wants the truth, then out of the other side of her mouth she says it could’ve been avoided, and that the officers had other options.  If you don’t yet know the truth then how can you possibly say that the officers didn’t do the right thing? If the criminal rammed a cop car with a stolen vehicle and then jumped out with a handgun, this is about as justified as it gets.  I saw an interview with one of this guy’s friends when it first happened and his buddy put all of the blame on him and his bad decisions.  I was pleasantly surprised.

I don’t have any idea what happened but I know the police are guilty.

[1989NDN]

tvc184, I read where the matter has been referred to a Jefferson County grand jury.  Please explain the next steps in the process.  Do you think there is enough evidence for a Jefferson County grand jury to return any type of indictment?  In the grand jury phase, will the officers or counsel for the officers get an opportunity to raise any type of defense or justification?  Thanks.

Go Indians!  Peace.

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, 1989NDN said:

tvc184, I read where the matter has been referred to a Jefferson County grand jury.  Please explain the next steps in the process.  Do you think there is enough evidence for a Jefferson County grand jury to return any type of indictment?  In the grand jury phase, will the officers or counsel for the officers get an opportunity to raise any type of defense or justification?  Thanks.

Go Indians!  Peace.

The GJ just No Billed the officers. Case closed.

There will almost always be the lawsuit so the family can get as much money as they can no matter how justified. 

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, 1989NDN said:

tvc184, I read where the matter has been referred to a Jefferson County grand jury.  Please explain the next steps in the process.  Do you think there is enough evidence for a Jefferson County grand jury to return any type of indictment?  In the grand jury phase, will the officers or counsel for the officers get an opportunity to raise any type of defense or justification?  Thanks.

Go Indians!  Peace.

All of this goes to the 10th Amendment of the Constitution.

Unless it is specifically mentioned in the Constitution, a state can do it it wishes. I think about half the states have the grand jury process for a felony. That means that a grand jury has to return an indictment for there to be a felony charge. In some states they don’t have a grand jury or they only refer to them in maybe controversial cases. In those states the District Attorney can bring somebody up on felony charges just on his opinion. Of course probable cause is needed. I believe Florida is such a state. The George Zimmerman case I believe is a good example because the special prosecutor indicted him just on her signature. It is my opinion that she did not bring it to a grandjujury because she knows they would have no build the case and the case would  have been closed. 

Texas is a mandatory GJ state. It also serves a somewhat political purpose in cases like this  because a DA can say, I did not make the decision.

The police do not bring charges on anyone. That is done through the DA. The police are just in investigative body. They take pictures, fingerprints, interview witnesses and so on. In the years I was in investigations, I would do all of that and then when I thought I had done what I could, I would present the case to the DA if I thought there was sufficient evidence to prove a case. There were three options for the district attorney after a detective submitted a case. One would be to refuse the case out right for any reason including they just don’t wish to tie up the court, they could accept the charges or they can send the case back to the detective requesting more information. Depending on that additional information, they would again either except or reject the case. 

If it was a misdemeanor, an assistant DA intake attorney would review the case and decide if they wish to go ahead with the charges. If the DA accepted the case from the detective and it was a felony, that means they would go forward but like mentioned, Texas is a mandatory GJ state so the DA has to accept what  he believes is a good case and then present it to the GJ. 

[tvc184]

When the police make an arrest, with or without a warrant, they are not filing charges. They are making what is an accusation arrest. I used to hear the news media say something like, the suspect got out of jail on an accusation or accusation bond. I don’t recall them using that phrase anymore.

For example a person commits a robbery and is caught by the police. The suspect is brought to jail and booked by the officer describing the probable cause  as to why the officer thinks the suspect committed the crime. A judge will be in probably the next morning, read the person his rights, review the probable cause affidavit and then set bail.

At that time, the DA has not reviewed the case or if a felony like a robbery, the grand jury has not heard the case. It is probably believed by many people that once the police make an arrest, charges have been filed. That is not correct.

Then the investigation begins as I described above with the case being submitted to the DA for review. Sometimes a detective after gathering information about the reported crime, might submit the case to the DA recommending that no charges be filed because there is not enough evidence to prove the crime. In that case the charges are simply dropped.

[tvc184]

As to this specific case, Texas law on self-defense does not say you have to prove self-defense. If a claim of self-defense is made, Texas law requires the DA to prove that self-defense did not exist beyond a reasonable doubt. That is for a police officers and civilians equally.

A No Bill by the GJ simply means that they do not believe there’s at least probable cause to prove the accusation. A True Bill is returning an indictment.

In a case such as this, if an indictment was returned the DA would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the police officers were not reasonably trying to stop deadly force against themselves. It does not matter if there were other options. It only matters that a reasonable officer faced with the same circumstances would believe that deadly force was reasonable to protect themselves.

One of the officers involved I trained both in the police academy and on the streets when he was a rookie. The other officer involved, I trained him in the academy and  was his supervisor but in a different  agency. I have spoken with some of the officers that were familiar with the case and/or were there and work in Mid-County (who I also trained) and I believe what was reported on the news, is what happened. The police were chasing a stolen car and the car rammed the police car either intentionally or unintentionally. The deceased jumped out with a gun in his hand. I have seen all kinds of silly Facebook comments about, what was his intent by having the gun in hand or whatever. It basically does not matter. What would a reasonable officer believe faced with those circumstance where they were chasing a felon and after he is forced to stop, gets out with a gun in hand?

[tvc184]

2 hours ago, 1989NDN said:

tvc184, I read where the matter has been referred to a Jefferson County grand jury.  Please explain the next steps in the process.  Do you think there is enough evidence for a Jefferson County grand jury to return any type of indictment?  In the grand jury phase, will the officers or counsel for the officers get an opportunity to raise any type of defense or justification?  Thanks.

Go Indians!  Peace.

And no, the officer does not get to go in front of the grand jury to plead his case. If indicted, that is for a trial court. Other officers involved may testify in front of the grand jury as long as they are not facing the accusation. A few years ago my partner shot and killed the guy about 10 feet in front of me. A couple of other officers were on scene in addition to the officer that fired the shot. I was the first person to testify in front of the grand jury and eventually, the other officers and witnesses also.  That also was a very clear cut case of self-defense and the officer was No Billed.