PNG News

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Indian tribe approves resolution to remove Native American mascots from PN-G & all schools.

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 

[Reagan]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Buddy Garrity said:

Indian tribe approves resolution to remove Native American mascots from PN-G & all schools.

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 

Well, it's a good thing they have no say-so in the matter!  I'd ask:  why not worry about all the drugs crossing the border that are killing our people?  Priorities!!

[tvc184]

Oh!!! Another Indian tribe jumps on the bandwagon. 

Same song, different verse….

[CardinalBacker]

They've come a long ways from the lean warriors that ruled the plains.  A modern depiction would be overweight, undereducated, unemployed, living on government handouts but mad about school mascots. 

PNG WILL end up changing their mascot.  It's inevitable.  

[tvc184]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

They've come a long ways from the lean warriors that ruled the plains.  A modern depiction would be overweight, undereducated, unemployed, living on government handouts but mad about school mascots. 

PNG WILL end up changing their mascot.  It's inevitable.  

In what time frame? 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

In what time frame? 

My guess is within 10 years... maybe more.  But I expect to see it during my lifetime.  I don't see it coming from PNG, but I could definitely see it coming from the state, but most likely the feds.  All they have to do is threaten to withhold funding and it'll happen.  

The outcries are just too loud and too common.  I don't agree with it, but I think it's inevitable. 

[bullets13]

19 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

My guess is within 10 years... maybe more.  But I expect to see it during my lifetime.  I don't see it coming from PNG, but I could definitely see it coming from the state, but most likely the feds.  All they have to do is threaten to withhold funding and it'll happen.  

The outcries are just too loud and too common.  I don't agree with it, but I think it's inevitable. 

This is probably accurate.  It's already happening at a national level.  Even though our area is still fairly conservative there are plenty of outspoken advocates who will work to push for this.  10 years seems like a good guess to me.  

[thetragichippy]

Maybe those Indian Chiefs could provide the funds it would take to change everything to something else, starting with the turf and signage at the stadium. 

[tvc184]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

My guess is within 10 years... maybe more.  But I expect to see it during my lifetime.  I don't see it coming from PNG, but I could definitely see it coming from the state, but most likely the feds.  All they have to do is threaten to withhold funding and it'll happen.  

The outcries are just too loud and too common.  I don't agree with it, but I think it's inevitable. 

Not arguing but a serious question.

Under what constitutional authority could the US government be involved?

Will the 1st, 10th and 14th Amendments come into play, especially the 10th and 14th?

 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

Not arguing but a serious question.

Under what constitutional authority could the US government be involved?

Will the 1st, 10th and 14th Amendments come into play, especially the 10th and 14th?

 

Schools have no constitutional rights. Generally speaking, of course. 
 

Louisiana wanted to keep their drinking age down at 18… the feds wanted 21. It got changed to 21 when the feds threatened to withhold all highway funding. I can absolutely see them doing something similar with “offensive” mascots and school funds. 
 

The problem is this.. when someone is “offended” and we cave in to pacify them, they just come back around for more of your freedoms. I’m a proud Southerner who lost ancestors in the Civil War. I should have raised hell when people started vilifying the flag 20 or so years ago. Now I no longer have the ability to express any pride in my heritage. It’s scornful. I was watching an old episode of Hogan’s heroes the other night… comedy or not, there were schwastikas on some of the German lapels. How long until some kid gets upset and hogans heroes is unwatchable, just like Dukes of Hazzard? The whole situation is just dumb. I watched some clown on tv the other night celebrating as they tore down a confederate monument. “Traitors!” they all yell. I guess they never realized that THEY would have been the traitors in the 1860s if they wouldn’t have stood alongside their southern neighbors to fight for their land, huh? 
 

We should have all raised hell when “they” made Ole Miss stop playing Dixie at home games.  What better story is there than that of a racist institution (like Ole Miss in those old days of segregation) being dragged kicking and screaming into a diversified existence today? That story is just as much of a triumph as any other progress made in areas of racial equality. Celebrate the first black man to take the field, but also appreciate the progress made by the other side, too… but no, they’d rather have “social justice” than equality and harmony. And it comes from all sides these days  

 

[longball24]

If everyone would get on the same page they can put a stop to the wokeness  that has brought our country into the 3rd world. Boycott the casinos get on board and petition the state to shut down all gambling in the state of Texas. We must stop spending our hard earned money on people that do not share our values. We are allowing this to happen. I do not watch pro football and I now will not visit my local Casino or do any business at their store. Before I spend my hard earned money I do my homework. It only takes a second.

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

Schools have no constitutional rights. Generally speaking, of course. 
 

 

 

Buildings don’t have rights.

 The people working and going to class inside of them certainly do. 

[CardinalBacker]

11 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

Buildings don’t have rights.

 The people working and going to class inside of them certainly do. 

That’s the best analogy that I’ve got… all the department of education would have to do is withhold funding and the schools would have no choice to buy to bend to their will. 
 

My right to travel about the country wasn’t being infringed by the feds shutting off Louisiana’s highway funding. But it got the state to bend to the federal will. 
 

It’s doubtful that the UIL would prohibit anybody from participating… that might invoke some constitutional issues. The purse strings are where it’s at. 

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

Louisiana wanted to keep their drinking age down at 18… the feds wanted 21. It got changed to 21 when the feds threatened to withhold all highway funding. I can absolutely see them doing something similar with “offensive” mascots and school funds. 
 

 

I believe you will find that the reasoning is flawed by SCOTUS rulings.

 In the case you mentioned, it was SD which brought suit that went to SCOTUS (South Dakota v. Dole 1987)

 In that case that led to the withholding of highway funds, SCOTUS listed five requirements to make it lawful. 
1.  The spending must promote the “general” welfare” (highway deaths).
2.  It must not be ambiguous.
3.  The condition should relate "to the federal interest in particular national projects or programs." 
4.  The condition imposed on thec state (citizens) must not be in itself unconstitutional (1st Amendment). 
5.  The condition must not be “coercive” (gee, no coercion there).

I think a school name is clearly coercive, it clearly violates the First Amendment, it’s ambiguous and if you’re certainly not in the furtherance of a specific federal program. Drinking was.

Then in 1992 in NY v. US, SCOTUS in a 6-3 decision ruled that the federal government again used the Commerce Clause and it to away states’ rights under the 10th Amendment.

Looking at those Supreme Court rulings, there is a huge difference between drinking age and highway fatalities under the authority of the commerce clause and a national highway safety program and a school name and the First Amendment.

[tvc184]

14 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

That’s the best analogy that I’ve got… all the department of education would have to do is withhold funding and the schools would have no choice to buy to bend to their will. 
 

My right to travel about the country wasn’t being infringed by the feds shutting off Louisiana’s highway funding. But it got the state to bend to the federal will. 
 

It’s doubtful that the UIL would prohibit anybody from participating… that might invoke some constitutional issues. The purse strings are where it’s at. 

I think you were making kind of an apples versus oranges argument.

 SCOTUS decisions aren’t that simple…. as I noted in the previous comment. 

[LumRaiderFan]

29 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

That’s the best analogy that I’ve got… all the department of education would have to do is withhold funding and the schools would have no choice to buy to bend to their will. 
 

My right to travel about the country wasn’t being infringed by the feds shutting off Louisiana’s highway funding. But it got the state to bend to the federal will. 
 

It’s doubtful that the UIL would prohibit anybody from participating… that might invoke some constitutional issues. The purse strings are where it’s at. 

Federal funding for school districts is 6-8%.  No small amount but not enough to  strong arm a school district to bend to their will if they choose not to.

[CardinalBacker]

So what y’all are saying is that there’s no way that the federal government could ever force local schools to do anything like desegregate or implement Title IX? 
 

I guess y’all have it figured out and I’m wrong.  

[LumRaiderFan]

6 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

So what y’all are saying is that there’s no way that the federal government could ever force local schools to do anything like desegregate or implement Title IX? 
 

I guess y’all have it figured out and I’m wrong.  

Those were actually righting wrongs, this is not…nothing wrong with the Indian mascot.

Amazes me that folks are so nonchalant about an overreaching federal government.

 

[PN-G bamatex]

8 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

My guess is within 10 years... maybe more.  But I expect to see it during my lifetime.  I don't see it coming from PNG, but I could definitely see it coming from the state, but most likely the feds.  All they have to do is threaten to withhold funding and it'll happen.  

The outcries are just too loud and too common.  I don't agree with it, but I think it's inevitable. 

It will never come from the state.

Both the Obama- and Clinton-era civil rights offices at the US Department of Education expressly stated that American Indian-themed mascots are not themselves forms of race-based discrimination cognizable to federal anti-discrimination laws like Title VI. Even American Indian activists with legal backgrounds quietly admit they’re not optimistic about that changing. I don’t think the existing legal landscape is favorable to it, either.

The only possibility left after that is a new federal legislative effort. I don’t think there’s much chance that bill’s even filed, much less that it passes. Keep in mind that it wouldn’t just affect PN-G, it would affect hundreds of high schools across the country, including in blue states, and some reservation schools. It would also affect major universities like Florida State. All that makes it politically untenable.

I’m not going to tell you it’s impossible, but I’m a lawyer and I work in politics for a living. A ten year timeline is not realistic. And that has nothing to do with my personal opinion that the opposition to the mascot is ridiculous, as a Cherokee descendant whose great grandfather lived on the reservation in Oklahoma until he died and whose grandfather grew up there.

[CardinalBacker]

1 minute ago, PN-G bamatex said:

It will never come from the state.

Both the Obama- and Clinton-era civil rights offices at the US Department of Education expressly stated that American Indian-themed mascots are not themselves forms of race-based discrimination cognizable to federal anti-discrimination laws like Title VII. Even American Indian activists with legal backgrounds quietly admit they’re not optimistic about that changing. I don’t think the existing legal landscape is favorable to it, either.

The only possibility left after that is a new federal legislative effort. I don’t think there’s much chance that bill’s even filed, much less that it passes. Keep in mind that it wouldn’t just affect PN-G, it would affect hundreds of high schools across the country, including in blue states and some reservation schools. It would also affect major universities like Florida State. All that makes it politically untenable.

I’m not going to tell you it’s impossible, but I’m lawyer and work in politics for a living. A ten year timeline is not realistic.

Heck, they signed an executive order and totally jacked up school lunches during the Obama administration.  How did they force schools to feed kids “healthy” foods against everybody’s wishes? It took a couple of weeks to implement, too. 

[PN-G bamatex]

14 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Heck, they signed an executive order and totally jacked up school lunches during the Obama administration.  How did they force schools to feed kids “healthy” foods against everybody’s wishes? It took a couple of weeks to implement, too. 

I’m not familiar with the executive order you’re referring to, so I can’t speak to that, specifically. Generally speaking, all federal executive orders must proceed from some statutory authority. Here, the only statutory authority that’s even remotely relevant is Title VI, and implementing that policy via executive order using Title VI would be tantamount to rewriting the statute by executive fiat.

Setting aside the likelihood of litigation successfully overturning the EO, the political blowback alone is enough to render it highly unlikely.

[PN-G bamatex]

On a related note, submitted without comment:

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

[tvc184]

46 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

So what y’all are saying is that there’s no way that the federal government could ever force local schools to do anything like desegregate or implement Title IX? 
 

I guess y’all have it figured out and I’m wrong.  

Yes, that is absolutely what I am saying.

Time will tell but looking at prior SCOTUS cases, I don’t see that the federal government has a dog in the hunt.

 They certainly can’t claim Indian is offensive unless they change many of their own laws. The feds will have a tough sell when their main US Government advocate/organization for Indians is the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

[tvc184]

17 minutes ago, PN-G bamatex said:

On a related note, submitted without comment:

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

Is there anything there other than slot machines? I think the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Texas law which bans poker, roulette, blackjack, etc. 

[PN-G bamatex]

5 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

Yes, that is absolutely what I am saying.

Time will tell but looking at prior SCOTUS cases, I don’t see that the federal government has a dog in the hunt.

 They certainly can’t claim Indian is offensive unless they change many of their own laws. The feds will have a tough sell when their main US Government advocate/organization for Indians is the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

And this is why I keep going back to the reservation schools. You have Indian reservations in this country with schools charted by the tribal governments - including one such school run by a certain Cherokee chief in Oklahoma - that have adopted the Indian mascot. There’s one out west that adopted the team name “Savages.”

The PC babies can scream “cultural appropriation” all they want, but guess what? That’s not against the law. Racial discrimination is against the law. The federal government can’t stretch Title VI to prohibit the PN-G Indians without also prohibiting the Sequoyah High School Indians in Tahlequah, otherwise they arguably run afoul of Title VI itself, not to mention the Fourteenth Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause. Regardless of what OCR’s actually committed to writing, I think the powers that be know that, and aren’t interested in dividing tribal voters on the issue. Or permanently ceding Florida to Republicans, for that matter.