West Orange Stark at Silsbee

[Dirty_but_Dazzling]

42 minutes ago, Dirty_but_Dazzling said:

outsider question here.

Hickman as we know has been there, what he take over and then get rid of the guys he had been working with? 

alright then........

[MackLewis]

2 hours ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

Hard to see the big picture from 100 miles away. Most of those folks drive in, and most of us drive out. The new plant about to be built. Money yes, population growth no. I actually think it's gonna be worse for us. If people move in to work they're gonna buy in BC, OF, or LCM. Not to mention our stadium is gonna stink like some others I've been to that are close to refineries.

One thing that does keep people here is the program. Now there's another option. Peevey knew what was coming his way. Smartest move I've seen in a long time.

And the "in or OUT" comment? I've always been IN. Even when we weren't winning state every year. So have others here on this site who have the rings to prove it. They're not happy with the situation either. There's also another prominent citizen, and former player, that WE see on TV representing US in various ways. I haven't seen him at a game yet either.

So when I walked out early in the 3rd against PNG, it hurt to know that they had let us all down. They as in those in charge of making the decisions. Either the coach who proclaimed to keep the tradition the same. Or the DC that didn't know our system. Or the Super that wouldn't take any recommendations from the committee. Or those elected officials who know what's best, and don't care about the voices of the constituents.

 

Anyway back to this game... is Shaw gonna be back? Heard he was injured with his ankle wrapped after the Newton game.

Great post!

[WOSdrummer99]

44 minutes ago, mat said:

If I recall, the community just voiced their opinion during the last election. 

Yes and that was with the assumption the tradition would continue.

Similar to all the expert predictions that went to dirt a couple weeks ago by getting beat by a school 2 divisions up. One loss wasn't enough to knock us out of the rankings. But what those guys saw that dropped us out was not what anyone expected of a program handing over the job to current staff member. This is not how it usually goes at all.

I heard the HOFer Craig Way talking about not throwing dirt on a team like Brock that's currently 0-4. We aren't completely out of it either. I seriously hope they right the ship. 

[WOSdrummer99]

46 minutes ago, ladybug33 said:

One thing I want coach H. to do better beside having the team ready to win is to...  get into the shoes of the refs, make them feel his raft if he feels that they made a bad call against his team LOL.  

I've seen that happen more than once. I loved that he dug into the zebras after a horrible call during the lcm game. But was it worth loosing a TO to do so. Especially when the next play failed to convert on 3rd and long. Which is actually more of the problem. But I've also seen other staff react more while he stands there speechless. Reminds me of coach samples after the hail Mary to lose the championship a while back.

[MackLewis]

WOS will still win a whole bunch of games.  They will still play several rounds deep in the playoffs.   They still have quality athletes.   Hell, the way the district has been bleeding students the last 2 decades, they could be 3A-D2 one day.   They will always be competitive.

 

But…. I don’t feel they will ever be the WOS they use to be.   Not unless better decisions, and better hires are made.   The further we get away from the DRH and CT era’s, and the impact they had on the program, the more they will decline.

 

How to kill a program?  Get rid of any and everyone that had to do with past success, and change the philosophies and schemes that created the success.    Coach T was a tough, hard nosed, old school disciplinarian.  He was the S&T coordinator.   Take that away, and replace him with anyone, and it’s a downgrade.    I don’t care what kind of college experience the guy comes from.

[Unwoke]

6 minutes ago, MackLewis said:

WOS will still win a whole bunch of games.  They will still play several rounds deep in the playoffs.   They still have quality athletes.   Hell, the way the district has been bleeding students the last 2 decades, they could be 3A-D2 one day.   They will always be competitive.

 

But…. I don’t feel they will ever be the WOS they use to be.   Not unless better decisions, and better hires are made.   The further we get away from the DRH and CT era’s, and the impact they had on the program, the more they will decline.

 

How to kill a program?  Get rid of any and everyone that had to do with past success, and change the philosophies and schemes that created the success.    Coach T was a tough, hard nosed, old school disciplinarian.  He was the S&T coordinator.   Take that away, and replace him with anyone, and it’s a downgrade.    I don’t care what kind of college experience the guy comes from.

It’ll be a gradual decline into mediocrity imo. 

[WOSdrummer99]

7 minutes ago, MackLewis said:

How to kill a program?  Get rid of any and everyone that had to do with past success, and change the philosophies and schemes that created the success.    Coach T was a tough, hard nosed, old school disciplinarian.  He was the S&T coordinator.   Take that away, and replace him with anyone, and it’s a downgrade.    I don’t care what kind of college experience the guy comes from.

I count 7 former players/coaches currently on staff. That's one of the main things I can't understand. It's not a completely new staff and perhaps that has more to do with it. These grown men have never worked together as a team. One advantage to the guy they could've brought in. He would've brought his staff and kept the some of the old too.

[MackLewis]

6 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

I count 7 former players/coaches currently on staff. That's one of the main things I can't understand. It's not a completely new staff and perhaps that has more to do with it. These grown men have never worked together as a team. One advantage to the guy they could've brought in. He would've brought his staff and kept the some of the old too.

Didn’t realize there were that many former Mustangs on staff.   What is their combined years of experience, and knowledge versus Pierce, Dyer, Ramsay, and others that were ran out of town?

 

I mentioned it before, but there’s nothing wrong with a change in scheme.   Not sure why anyone would want to move on from the 50 at WOS, but not unheard of.

 

But how good of coaches are the guys that replaced some of these legends and mainstays?   How well can they teach these changes?   How well they game plan and prepare the kids?

[Rez]

4 hours ago, lcm93 said:

That's all there is is chemical plants and few to none options!!

That’s all there has ever been. People don’t live in southeast Texas for the weather and tech startups. Those chemical plants are $$$$$

[WOSdrummer99]

2 minutes ago, MackLewis said:

Didn’t realize there were that many former Mustangs on staff.   What is their combined years of experience, and knowledge versus Pierce, Dyer, Ramsay, and others that were ran out of town?

 

I mentioned it before, but there’s nothing wrong with a change in scheme.   Not sure why anyone would want to move on from the 50 at WOS, but not unheard of.

 

But how good of coaches are the guys that replaced some of these legends and mainstays?   How well can they teach these changes?   How well they game plan and prepare the kids?

Nowhere close to the years of experience. Those old guys coached, and/or taught how to coach, most of the new ones. The DC and his brother, the Co-DC have never been in our system. We're seeing the affects of their teaching, planning, and preparing every week. It has to get better.

How good was the WB defense when they ran it over there? I know they were playing teams like NS. But just an honest opinion from a WB fan? What u say?

[lcm93]

1 minute ago, Rez Ipsa said:

That’s all there has ever been. People don’t live in southeast Texas for the weather and tech startups. Those chemical plants are $$$$$

There is nothing here for the kids to do I remember back in the day we had a putt putt a movie theater a bowling alley now there is nothing 

[Gasilla]

1 hour ago, ladybug33 said:

You know Gasilla, I can't put my finger on why we are not playing better.  Is it all because of the 50 defense, or is it the attitudes of the fans and the players are feeling their reactions. One thing I want coach H. to do better beside having the team ready to win is to...  get into the shoes of the refs, make them feel his raft if he feels that they made a bad call against his team LOL.  

Bug, I think it's many things that begin with changing from the 50. I think the present coach is a great person, but, I think it's a poor decision to come in and the first thing you do is change the first thing you said you wouldn't change. That also happens to be the foundation the program was built on. You know, it's kind of one of those deals, if your going to come in and change the foundation of the program, you sure as heck better be successful at it. 

I agree with DJ in that we don't have the personnel to run the 40. There's a reason we ran the 50 all these years. The lineman you need at the 3 techniques we don't have every year. The 50 plays into what we have in abundance, quickness.

That, and we don't tackle like Mustangs anymore and I can only wonder if we still hit and tackle in practice (we may, that's just speculation). 

I've seen the people on FB blaming it on a young team and an overall lack of talent from years past. I coached these kids and the 10 classes before them. This class has as much talent, experience and ability as the last 2 or 3.

All in all, I hope they get this thing rolling. But, when you make changes to something that didn't need changes, you put yourself on a much shorter leash than you would had you truly attempted to "continue the tradition".

[WOSdrummer99]

9 minutes ago, lcm93 said:

There is nothing here for the kids to do I remember back in the day we had a putt putt a movie theater a bowling alley now there is nothing 

Good times at the cinema!

[MackLewis]

7 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

Nowhere close to the years of experience. Those old guys coached, and/or taught how to coach, most of the new ones. The DC and his brother, the Co-DC have never been in our system. We're seeing the affects of their teaching, planning, and preparing every week. It has to get better.

How good was the WB defense when they ran it over there? I know they were playing teams like NS. But just an honest opinion from a WB fan? What u say?

I agree with you.   Was very perplexed by the decision in the first place.   Westbrook has struggled on defense for a long time.    They weren’t great when they played for the state title.    I watched them play, and they were constantly misaligned, out flanked, and poorly coached.   Just my opinion, anyways. 
 

I’d be most concerned about the discipline of the kids and the structure of the program moving forward as well.   WOS will always have talent, and tough kids.   That’s not a question.  

[WOSdrummer99]

6 minutes ago, Gasilla said:

I've seen the people on FB blaming it on a young team and an overall lack of talent from years past. I coached these kids and the 10 classes before them. This class has as much talent, experience and ability as the last 2 or 3.

I agree... it's Not the kids. This is a team that returns alot of experience. That just lost to the eventual state champion in the region finals. And were expected to have the talent to make it to Dallas in December.

Edited September 18, 2022 by WOSdrummer99

[Unwoke]

“I’d be most concerned about the discipline of the kids and the structure of the program moving forward as well”

The lack of Discipline is the beginning of the End. So Very Important Mack.

Your spot on.

[mat]

1 hour ago, Dirty_but_Dazzling said:

maybe it's via the same government program  building several apartment complexes and new homes for people as "affordable housing" here in Jasper.

$300,000 +/- homes

[lcm93]

11 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

Good times at the cinema!

I remember the old drive in where home depot is

[Gasilla]

28 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

I agree... it's Not the kids. This is a team that returns alot of experience. That just lost to the eventual state champion in the region finals. And were expected to have the talent to make it to Dallas in December.

We would, for sure, be thinking December. 

I guess another problem I see and many others have voiced; it's fine that you don't have previous experience. But, knowing that, you make changes? I mean, why? It wreaks of, "I'm going to do things the way I want to do them and show you all" aka- pride. 

Many who've poured blood sweat and tears into the building of those traditions feel that way. That's why you have ex-players making rants on FB.

[ladybug33]

51 minutes ago, Gasilla said:

Bug, I think it's many things that begin with changing from the 50. I think the present coach is a great person, but, I think it's a poor decision to come in and the first thing you do is change the first thing you said you wouldn't change. That also happens to be the foundation the program was built on. You know, it's kind of one of those deals, if your going to come in and change the foundation of the program, you sure as heck better be successful at it. 

I agree with DJ in that we don't have the personnel to run the 40. There's a reason we ran the 50 all these years. The lineman you need at the 3 techniques we don't have every year. The 50 plays into what we have in abundance, quickness.

That, and we don't tackle like Mustangs anymore and I can only wonder if we still hit and tackle in practice (we may, that's just speculation). 

I've seen the people on FB blaming it on a young team and an overall lack of talent from years past. I coached these kids and the 10 classes before them. This class has as much talent, experience and ability as the last 2 or 3.

All in all, I hope they get this thing rolling. But, when you make changes to something that didn't need changes, you put yourself on a much shorter leash than you would had you truly attempted to "continue the tradition".

He always knows what needs to be done. I respect him and his opinion. It's the 3 or so band wagon WOS fans who always bring the community in this forum, and politics into everything about our football team; when it's not even about that. I hope we go back to the "50" defense so that we can see what's really going on.

[AggiesAreWe]

6 hours ago, XX Man said:

You are right about the population moving away from Orange, even if they work here. They do not want their kids in WO schools. There is no diversity in the school, the athletics, the school board or the administration. West Orange has turned into another Wallace. First thing needs to happen is at least half the school board has to go. The superintendent has to go, and his lackey he brought in from Silsbee has to go. People need to show up on elections to the school board, to begin with. Let's get this done. Bring diversity back to West Orange and the whole community will profit. 

Pretty sure Hickman has been at WO-S for 6 +years. Coach T hired him.

[BADSANTA]

We talking about the game problems on Orange?? Geez!!! 

[Tigers94]

Shouldn't a coach at least be given a full year or two before everyone wants him gone?

As for Silsbee, I do worry a little about them towards the end of the game still. If this game is close late, the Mustangs might can take it.

[WOSdrummer99]

6 hours ago, Tigers94 said:

Shouldn't a coach at least be given a full year or two before everyone wants him gone?

As for Silsbee, I do worry a little about them towards the end of the game still. If this game is close late, the Mustangs might can take it.

Typically yes. But we are not the typical HS FB program. Our success has made us demand excellence. And no, not everyone wants him gone. I wasn't happy with the hiring process. Not just that it wasn't my guy. Then I jumped on the bandwagon after I got a feel for his character, and heard his comments regarding the future of WOS FB. After reading the preview back in August, I noticed there would be some changes that weren't mentioned before.

Consider this, if Silsbee basketball coach left their very dominant program in the hands of an assistant coach who had never been in the position before. Would you expect a completely new style on the hardwood?

[XX Man]

8 hours ago, Tigers94 said:

Shouldn't a coach at least be given a full year or two before everyone wants him gone?

As for Silsbee, I do worry a little about them towards the end of the game still. If this game is close late, the Mustangs might can take it.

The deal is, he came into a program that had been going for almost 40 years and compiled the winningest record in Texas, and changed it, and is giving up more points than ever. Why would anyone change a program that has been so successful?