West Orange Stark at Silsbee

[XX Man]

10 hours ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Pretty sure Hickman has been at WO-S for 6 +years. Coach T hired him.

He did coach at WO, but had left and was DC at Silsbee. 

[DP#1FAN]

It will be a great game to watch. Both teams will be looking to make a statement. Is Shaw going to be 100%? He is a factor in the game. If he's 100% I'll take the Stangs and if not playing the door is open for the Tigers. 

[WOSdrummer99]

39 minutes ago, XX Man said:

He did coach at WO, but had left and was DC at Silsbee. 

It was the other way around.

Hiawatha Hickman (Hired)
West Orange-Stark, Defensive Line Coach (6 seasons)
Silsbee, Defensive Coordinator (10 seasons)

[gogo1734]

Silsbee by 14+

[dj]

15 hours ago, MackLewis said:

WOS will still win a whole bunch of games.  They will still play several rounds deep in the playoffs.   They still have quality athletes.   Hell, the way the district has been bleeding students the last 2 decades, they could be 3A-D2 one day.   They will always be competitive.

 

But…. I don’t feel they will ever be the WOS they use to be.   Not unless better decisions, and better hires are made.   The further we get away from the DRH and CT era’s, and the impact they had on the program, the more they will decline.

 

How to kill a program?  Get rid of any and everyone that had to do with past success, and change the philosophies and schemes that created the success.    Coach T was a tough, hard nosed, old school disciplinarian.  He was the S&T coordinator.   Take that away, and replace him with anyone, and it’s a downgrade.    I don’t care what kind of college experience the guy comes from.

I agree with u 1000 percent!!

[Who That]

2 hours ago, DP#1FAN said:

It will be a great game to watch. Both teams will be looking to make a statement. Is Shaw going to be 100%? He is a factor in the game. If he's 100% I'll take the Stangs and if not playing the door is open for the Tigers. 

SHAW is not playing he has a boot on his foot. He could be out a few games. 

[AggiesAreWe]

2 hours ago, XX Man said:

He did coach at WO, but had left and was DC at Silsbee. 

Wrong. Hickman started at Silsbee as an assistant, then became Defensive Co. After McGallion retired he put in for head coaching job at Silsbee but did not get it (Randy Smith got the job, still there). Then he was hired by Cornel to be an assistant at WO-S. Hickman has been at WO-S for over 6 years now.

[Gasilla]

13 hours ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Pretty sure Hickman has been at WO-S for 6 +years. Coach T hired him.

He has. Makes it even more curious about the switch.

[JaspD55]

2 minutes ago, Gasilla said:

He has. Makes it even more curious about the switch.

I think u have a situation where , you have to hire a new DC and def assistants. They want to coach a Defense they are familiar and comfortable with. Just happens that the current players are struggling with playing it, and if things continue to slide down hill, the kids will start to not buy in to the change. Regardless of this weeks outcome, things will probably get better as they play the weaker teams in the district. But if and a big (if) they loose to Silsbee, and HF, gonna be a tough go? Any other school it would work out in time, but the expectations at WOS are so high, that the stress level on all involved may be too much? But, dont be shocked if all this gloom and doom talk is nought, WOS wins out in district , and goes sev rounds in the playoffs. I would consider that a successful first year for Hickman . JMO

[Gasilla]

12 hours ago, Tigers94 said:

Shouldn't a coach at least be given a full year or two before everyone wants him gone?

As for Silsbee, I do worry a little about them towards the end of the game still. If this game is close late, the Mustangs might can take it.

Tiger, the way the hiring process went down combined with the changes he's made has made many WOS faithful on edge. He could not control the hiring process, but he did know the culture at WOS. Again, with everything else going on, changing what made WOS, WOS was not the best idea IMO. By that, he's put himself in a precarious situation.

I'll say this, too. I've stated my opinion about the changes, but in that I'm not saying I want him gone. I'm hoping he's big enough to recognize when he's made a mistake and adjust. Cornel did it with his offense after he took the helm in 2011. There's nothing wrong with trying something different. But keeping it just because it's what you want is when it becomes a problem.

The measure of a true leader is not about getting it right every time. It's being able to admit when you are wrong and making the necessary adjustments to correct that mistake. Understanding that the program comes first and bigger than you are.

This is a defining moment for him.

[AggiesAreWe]

15 minutes ago, Gasilla said:

He has. Makes it even more curious about the switch.

You and I have spoke privately and I agree with you. Is a bit of a head scratcher.

But, like I said it's still too early to call.
 

[Gasilla]

5 minutes ago, JaspD55 said:

I think u have a situation where , you have to hire a new DC and def assistants. They want to coach a Defense they are familiar and comfortable with. Just happens that the current players are struggling with playing it, and if things continue to slide down hill, the kids will start to not buy in to the change. Regardless of this weeks outcome, things will probably get better as they play the weaker teams in the district. But if and a big (if) they loose to Silsbee, and HF, gonna be a tough go? Any other school it would work out in time, but the expectations at WOS are so high, that the stress level on all involved may be too much? But, dont be shocked if all this gloom and doom talk is nought, WOS wins out in district , and goes sev rounds in the playoffs. I would consider that a successful first year for Hickman . JMO

I agree with this. They've got into a couple of alignments that look like an attempt at the 50. Makes me wonder if they just don't know how to coach it, but Hick has been there for 6 years as a defensive coach. How could he not know it?

[JaspD55]

4 minutes ago, Gasilla said:

Tiger, the way the hiring process went down combined with the changes he's made has made many WOS faithful on edge. He could not control the hiring process, but he did know the culture at WOS. Again, with everything else going on, changing what made WOS, WOS was not the best idea IMO. By that, he's put himself in a precarious situation.

I'll say this, too. I've stated my opinion about the changes, but in that I'm not saying I want him gone. I'm hoping he's big enough to recognize when he's made a mistake and adjust. Cornel did it with his offense after he took the helm in 2011. There's nothing wrong with trying something different. But keeping it just because it's what you want is when it becomes a problem.

The measure of a true leader is not about getting it right every time. It's being able to admit when you are wrong and making the necessary adjustments to correct that mistake. Understanding that the program comes first and bigger than you are.

This is a defining moment for him.

The WOS def under CT, was a unique one, and the architects of it are gone. If he wants to change back, that would have to be done after the season, and have current def coaches meet with some of the old guys , and learn how to coach it. If it was easy, then every highschool in SET would be running that Defense.

[Gasilla]

Just now, JaspD55 said:

The WOS def under CT, was a unique one, and the architects of it are gone. If he wants to change back, that would have to be done after the season, and have current def coaches meet with some of the old guys , and learn how to coach it. If it was easy, then every highschool in SET would be running that Defense.

That's a fair perspective. 

Again, he was there 6 years previous and had a load of players coming back. Wouldn't it be prudent to learn before the master left?

[WOSdrummer99]

11 minutes ago, Gasilla said:

He has. Makes it even more curious about the switch.

I'm curious about when the change was made. Could it have been the day after the board decision? T was still around for a lil bit. Were the kids working and learning the new system during the spring? Did it help them in 7 on 7 during the summer? Or was this started first day of 2 a days? 

So many questions...

Why not start the new system in the off season when the staff has fully evaluated the upcoming talent?

[AggiesAreWe]

6 minutes ago, Gasilla said:

I agree with this. They've got into a couple of alignments that look like an attempt at the 50. Makes me wonder if they just don't know how to coach it, but Hick has been there for 6 years as a defensive coach. How could he not know it?

Silsbee ran the 50 while Hickman was there. Hickman played in the 50 at Silsbee. He knows it.

[Gasilla]

2 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

I'm curious about when the change was made. Could it have been the day after the board decision? T was still around for a lil bit. Were the kids working and learning the new system during the spring? Did it help them in 7 on 7 during the summer? Or was this started first day of 2 a days? 

So many questions...

Why not start the new system in the off season when the staff has fully evaluated the upcoming talent?

My guess is that the decision was made after the hire and the alignment went in during athletic periods. The problem with that is, our kids are so flippin athletic that everything looks good when you're running it against wind. You don't really know how it's going work until you line up against a good opponent. 

[Gasilla]

4 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Silsbee ran the 50 while Hickman was there. Hickman played in the 50 at Silsbee. He knows it.

Ok, I thought so but didn't want to say that and be wrong.

[JaspD55]

Just now, Gasilla said:

Ok, I thought so. 

I'm just saying, theres things CT did with his Defense that no one else did. Ive talked to enough Offensive coaches that have game planned for it, and they hated it. I'm sure Hickman felt he had good enough athletes to run any kind of defense, and he would go with a Defense his new coaches wanted to run. And I'm guessing he has so much on his plate as a new AD/HC, that he is not as involved with the Defensive coaching as you might think.  To make my point compare WOS def stats under CT to any other team in America running the 50 defense, or the years Hickman ran it at Silsbee.

[WOSdrummer99]

5 minutes ago, JaspD55 said:

or the years Hickman ran it at Silsbee

These years?

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[Gasilla]

4 minutes ago, JaspD55 said:

I'm just saying, theres things CT did with his Defense that no one else did. Ive talked to enough Offensive coaches that have game planned for it, and they hated it. I'm sure Hickman felt he had good enough athletes to run any kind of defense, and he would go with a Defense his new coaches wanted to run. And I'm guessing he has so much on his plate as a new AD/HC, that he is not as involved with the Defensive coaching as you might think.  To make my point compare WOS def stats under CT to any other team in America running the 50 defense, or the years Hickman ran it at Silsbee.

I understand and I appreciate the insight.

And yes I fully agree T had "nuances" that were a little abnormal. (Try teaching his DE/Rover responsibilities to a 7th grader). He was a defensive master mind.

So, he is too busy to institute T's 50 mid season? What's the answer? It's not to sacrifice a season and get back to it. I happen to know the talent pool will drop after this season for a year or two, so if you give up on this season your going to lose 2 and I don't know that they'll give him that long. 

[Gasilla]

59 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

You and I have spoke privately and I agree with you. Is a bit of a head scratcher.

But, like I said it's still too early to call.
 

Yes sir we have and I appreciate your willingness to admit this is a strange move. 

As a Mustang fan and knowing how other Mustang fans think, time is up. We don't lose to Silsbee (yes, I know we have, but that's the mentality). I'm saying that "tongue and cheek", but really... We DONT lose to Silsbee. 

I'll also say I appreciate your willingness to be objective about the situation since you're both Silsbee natives and not jumping to his defense (which I know is hard). Heck, I'm pulling for him. He needs to make adjustments so let's see what happens. But, it's kind of like my kids, sometimes. I'm always on their side, but sometimes they sure make things harder than they need to be. 

[XX Man]

I got it wrong then. I thought Hickman had gone back to Silsbee a couple years ago. Sorry about that. I look for Silsbee to get the win, and WOS will struggle against Lumberton and H-F. The others are wins. I don't see them going more than 2 deepin the playoffs IF they get into post season play. 

 

[Gasilla]

6 minutes ago, XX Man said:

I got it wrong then. I thought Hickman had gone back to Silsbee a couple years ago. Sorry about that. I look for Silsbee to get the win, and WOS will struggle against Lumberton and H-F. The others are wins. I don't see them going more than 2 deepin the playoffs IF they get into post season play. 

 

Lumberton?

We can't play bad enough to not make the playoffs in this district. That being said, if we don't beat Silsbee then you might as well come in 4th place. That's the good side of the R3 bracket and would give us the best chance at getting another shot at Silsbee in the 3rd round (if we improve enough to get there).

[AggiesAreWe]

21 minutes ago, XX Man said:

I got it wrong then. I thought Hickman had gone back to Silsbee a couple years ago. Sorry about that. I look for Silsbee to get the win, and WOS will struggle against Lumberton and H-F. The others are wins. I don't see them going more than 2 deepin the playoffs IF they get into post season play. 

 

WO-S doesn't play Lumberton. Don't forget about Jasper.

You sure you know WO-S football?