Anahuac vs Hardin? Give me your thoughts!

[highsky]

28 minutes ago, oldman said:

Where did Barrier end up?

Assistant at Anahuac.

[forREALtho]

1 hour ago, JimAdler said:

Be careful now, 2wedge is related to the Barriers.

I’m not sure I agree with that. 

[highsky]

1 hour ago, JimAdler said:

Be careful now, 2wedge is related to the Barriers.

I'm not trying to stir anything up but some of the info is just not correct.  For example, it's true that he was just the HFC and not HFC/AD.  Before Barrier came, the AD position was given to someone else who has been associated with the school and within the athletic program for over 20 years and this was done to create some consistency with the athletic programs as the HFCs tend to only last 3-4 years, if that, at Hardin.   That said, the salary was very good for Hardin for just being HFC.  It wasn't the "needed more assistants" that was a problem...it was the impossibility of hiring more, due to a lack of candidates that met the criteria.  This is not a problem with just Hardin, but everywhere else too.  I think I read somewhere that at the THSCA coaching school that there were a ton of job postings but not enough candidates to fill those jobs. 

Hardin tried to keep Barrier.  People may not believe it, but it's true. 

[oldschool2]

7 minutes ago, highsky said:

I'm not trying to stir anything up but some of the info is just not correct.  For example, it's true that he was just the HFC and not HFC/AD.  Before Barrier came, the AD position was given to someone else who has been associated with the school and within the athletic program for over 20 years and this was done to create some consistency with the athletic programs as the HFCs tend to only last 3-4 years, if that, at Hardin.   That said, the salary was very good for Hardin for just being HFC.  It wasn't the "needed more assistants" that was a problem...it was the impossibility of hiring more, due to a lack of candidates that met the criteria.  This is not a problem with just Hardin, but everywhere else too.  I think I read somewhere that at the THSCA coaching school that there were a ton of job postings but not enough candidates to fill those jobs. 

Hardin tried to keep Barrier.  People may not believe it, but it's true. 

Just out of curiosity.. what criteria are you talking about?  Or do you know?

[highsky]

11 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Just out of curiosity.. what criteria are you talking about?  Or do you know?

The ordinary stuff like teaching fields, etc. 

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, highsky said:

The ordinary stuff like teaching fields, etc. 

That’s of less and less importance than people think.  There are ways around that.. or there would be more jobs than there are.  Schools will hire a teacher that may not fit a field before leaving it open.  

[highsky]

4 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

That’s of less and less importance than people think.  There are ways around that.. or there would be more jobs than there are.  Schools will hire a teacher that may not fit a field before leaving it open.  

Yes, I agree with you to a point. This is true for elective classes. Not so much when it’s a core class like math (not just everyone can teach math) or a specific field like special education. There were only so many teaching field available for a coach. 

[forREALtho]

15 hours ago, highsky said:

I'm not trying to stir anything up but some of the info is just not correct.  For example, it's true that he was just the HFC and not HFC/AD.  Before Barrier came, the AD position was given to someone else who has been associated with the school and within the athletic program for over 20 years and this was done to create some consistency with the athletic programs as the HFCs tend to only last 3-4 years, if that, at Hardin.   That said, the salary was very good for Hardin for just being HFC.  It wasn't the "needed more assistants" that was a problem...it was the impossibility of hiring more, due to a lack of candidates that met the criteria.  This is not a problem with just Hardin, but everywhere else too.  I think I read somewhere that at the THSCA coaching school that there were a ton of job postings but not enough candidates to fill those jobs. 

Hardin tried to keep Barrier.  People may not believe it, but it's true. 

All of that is true.  But it wasn’t the impossibility of hiring coaches.  They could of, and decided not to.  And so he left.  Like I said before they didn’t try keep him in my opinion 

[oldschool2]

10 hours ago, highsky said:

Yes, I agree with you to a point. This is true for elective classes. Not so much when it’s a core class like math (not just everyone can teach math) or a specific field like special education. There were only so many teaching field available for a coach. 

Are you aware of the term District of Innovation?  I read that most schools in the state took on that role which includes certain perks such as schedule flexibility and allowing certified teachers to teach in fields they aren't certified in.  I bet that Hardin has those flexibilities.  I also know that in certain circumstances smaller schools hire uncertified (yet degreed) people to teach while they are completing or even working on a certification. 

There is no set rules as to what exactly a coach HAS to teach.. and just because a coach is teaching something one year doesn't mean the teaching field can't change the next. Even for that exact coach.  It sounds to me that Hardin either lacked creativity or refused to be creative... because I have friends/family in the coaching profession and was told that Barrier wanted to hire specific people to coach yet was told he couldn't.  I'm not usually one to go off of just the word of a few but the coaching world usually holds pretty true to what I hear.  In my experience anyway. So if that is evenly partially true.. he did the exact right thing by abandoning ship.  

[highsky]

45 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Are you aware of the term District of Innovation?  I read that most schools in the state took on that role which includes certain perks such as schedule flexibility and allowing certified teachers to teach in fields they aren't certified in.  I bet that Hardin has those flexibilities.  I also know that in certain circumstances smaller schools hire uncertified (yet degreed) people to teach while they are completing or even working on a certification. 

There is no set rules as to what exactly a coach HAS to teach.. and just because a coach is teaching something one year doesn't mean the teaching field can't change the next. Even for that exact coach.  It sounds to me that Hardin either lacked creativity or refused to be creative... because I have friends/family in the coaching profession and was told that Barrier wanted to hire specific people to coach yet was told he couldn't.  I'm not usually one to go off of just the word of a few but the coaching world usually holds pretty true to what I hear.  In my experience anyway. So if that is evenly partially true.. he did the exact right thing by abandoning ship.  

I'm very aware of all what you just stated.  However, in a lot of cases, a teacher that is not certified to teach a specific field can only teach one class in that field because it can cause problems to the district if the uncertified teacher was to teach more than that one class. 

There's more reasons here than what I am willing to say, but while it is true that usually the whispers on the coaching grapevine are true, it's also true that not all the information is out there to be shared. So the story can be partially true but a lot is left out.  

[2wedge]

19 hours ago, JimAdler said:

Be careful now, 2wedge is related to the Barriers.

Negative hammer. There was a guy on here once saying he was a cousin, but he ain't me and I ain't him. Just a guy repeating what he was told by one of Hardin's finest supporters and sellers of Ford vehicles. Not sure where that guy roams these days, but I assure he is lurking. 

[2wedge]

17 minutes ago, highsky said:

I'm very aware of all what you just stated.  However, in a lot of cases, a teacher that is not certified to teach a specific field can only teach one class in that field because it can cause problems to the district if the uncertified teacher was to teach more than that one class. 

There's more reasons here than what I am willing to say, but while it is true that usually the whispers on the coaching grapevine are true, it's also true that not all the information is out there to be shared. So the story can be partially true but a lot is left out.  

However you want to frame it, he asked for certain assistants and was told no. Whether it was no because they didn't want to hire, or whether they said no because those he was trying to bring in weren't "math" teachers or whatever. Bottom line, if Hardin was committed to building the football program, they'd do whatever they had to do to keep quality coaches and players in the program, and they don't/didn't.

As far as the AD being someone who has been around there for a while and he carries the title for stability, if the issue was the AD changing every 3-4  years because the football coach would leave, now you can bet on losing a football coach every 1-2 years without that AD title to make him want to stay around. And for the record, Hardin would be able to keep an AD/HFC more than 3-4 years if they'd leave him alone and let him do his job. Give him what he needs, support the program, and tell your board members to stay out his personnel decisions, and they might actually keep one for a while. 

[highsky]

38 minutes ago, 2wedge said:

However you want to frame it, he asked for certain assistants and was told no. Whether it was no because they didn't want to hire, or whether they said no because those he was trying to bring in weren't "math" teachers or whatever. Bottom line, if Hardin was committed to building the football program, they'd do whatever they had to do to keep quality coaches and players in the program, and they don't/didn't.

As far as the AD being someone who has been around there for a while and he carries the title for stability, if the issue was the AD changing every 3-4  years because the football coach would leave, now you can bet on losing a football coach every 1-2 years without that AD title to make him want to stay around. And for the record, Hardin would be able to keep an AD/HFC more than 3-4 years if they'd leave him alone and let him do his job. Give him what he needs, support the program, and tell your board members to stay out his personnel decisions, and they might actually keep one for a while. 

Sure, but in case you haven't noticed, schools these days are gravitating away from the HFC/AD combination and separating it between two people.  The days of HFC/AD are quickly fading into the past. I know Kountze's AD is not the HFC so Hardin is not alone in the area when it comes to that. 

Like I said, there's a bit more to the story.  

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, highsky said:

I'm very aware of all what you just stated.  However, in a lot of cases, a teacher that is not certified to teach a specific field can only teach one class in that field because it can cause problems to the district if the uncertified teacher was to teach more than that one class. 

There's more reasons here than what I am willing to say, but while it is true that usually the whispers on the coaching grapevine are true, it's also true that not all the information is out there to be shared. So the story can be partially true but a lot is left out.  

I have no doubt that details are being left out.  However, the one detail that rings true was mentioned.  HE LEFT.. and it could've been prevented.  Or, at least.. further steps could've been tried to prevent it.  Money, support, assistants, whatever.. he left for a reason and while that reason may not be known by everyone.. there's still a reason that he left a 3A school as a head football coach to go to a 3A school in the same district. His son was going to be the starting quarterback regardless.  I know that Anahuac has a better supporting team but there's gotta be something else.  Didn't I read that his son led their 8th grade team to the district championship?  I know a lot changes between JH and Varsity but he still won.  

 

30 minutes ago, highsky said:

Sure, but in case you haven't noticed, schools these days are gravitating away from the HFC/AD combination and separating it between two people.  The days of HFC/AD are quickly fading into the past. I know Kountze's AD is not the HFC so Hardin is not alone in the area when it comes to that. 

Like I said, there's a bit more to the story.  

You are really going to use two of the worst football programs in all of SeTx as the examples of "schools gravitating away from the HFC/AD combination"?  Other than these two football powerhouses, would you mind giving me some examples of some schools 4A and down that are practicing this?  I already know there aren't any others is SeTx.. let's go statewide.

[forREALtho]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

I have no doubt that details are being left out.  However, the one detail that rings true was mentioned.  HE LEFT.. and it could've been prevented.  Or, at least.. further steps could've been tried to prevent it.  Money, support, assistants, whatever.. he left for a reason and while that reason may not be known by everyone.. there's still a reason that he left a 3A school as a head football coach to go to a 3A school in the same district. His son was going to be the starting quarterback regardless.  I know that Anahuac has a better supporting team but there's gotta be something else.  Didn't I read that his son led their 8th grade team to the district championship?  I know a lot changes between JH and Varsity but he still won.  

 

You are really going to use two of the worst football programs in all of SeTx as the examples of "schools gravitating away from the HFC/AD combination"?  Other than these two football powerhouses, would you mind giving me some examples of some schools 4A and down that are practicing this?  I already know there aren't any others is SeTx.. let's go statewide.

This is all true. And they were champs in jr high.  But from what I know, being AD was not an issue.   It actually was a plus. He had coaches he wanted hired and they didn’t. And it wasn’t the AD. Super and the school board didn’t make it happen. So he left.  It’s that simple. 

[oldschool2]

3 minutes ago, forREALtho said:

This is all true. And they were champs in jr high.  But from what I know, being AD was not an issue.   It actually was a plus. He had coaches he wanted hired and they didn’t. And it wasn’t the AD. Super and the school board didn’t make it happen. So he left.  It’s that simple. 

Sounds about like what I heard too.  Either way.. I would have left as well. 

[highsky]

3 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

I have no doubt that details are being left out.  However, the one detail that rings true was mentioned.  HE LEFT.. and it could've been prevented.  Or, at least.. further steps could've been tried to prevent it.  Money, support, assistants, whatever.. he left for a reason and while that reason may not be known by everyone.. there's still a reason that he left a 3A school as a head football coach to go to a 3A school in the same district. His son was going to be the starting quarterback regardless.  I know that Anahuac has a better supporting team but there's gotta be something else.  Didn't I read that his son led their 8th grade team to the district championship?  I know a lot changes between JH and Varsity but he still won.  

 

You are really going to use two of the worst football programs in all of SeTx as the examples of "schools gravitating away from the HFC/AD combination"?  Other than these two football powerhouses, would you mind giving me some examples of some schools 4A and down that are practicing this?  I already know there aren't any others is SeTx.. let's go statewide.

I don't know about statewide but in SETX, Splendora has a separate AD and HFC.  They are 4A.  

I should have stated that it's more common in the larger districts (5A/6A) but the idea is trickling down to the lower ranks.  

[oldschool2]

5 minutes ago, highsky said:

I don't know about statewide but in SETX, Splendora has a separate AD and HFC.  They are 4A.  

I should have stated that it's more common in the larger districts (5A/6A) but the idea is trickling down to the lower ranks.  

But it's not starting to trickle down.  It almost seems like you're trying to justify the fact that Hardin/Kountze are doing this.  Just in case any experienced football coach isn't interested due to their horrendous football tradition.. you guys are scaring the rest away with not allowing for the AD title.  Well done... DESPITE all that, they end up with a good coach with a talented son and still let them squeak away.  LOL!

You gave 3 examples of non 5A/6A schools in the pretty large coverage area.  I can tell you that it's not common in the rest of the state either... nor should it be.  I think it's fair to say that the duties should be split between men's and women's.. but any school 4A and smaller should have the Head Football Coach as the AD.. as football is the majority money maker/spender within athletics.

[highsky]

19 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

But it's not starting to trickle down.  It almost seems like you're trying to justify the fact that Hardin/Kountze are doing this.  Just in case any experienced football coach isn't interested due to their horrendous football tradition.. you guys are scaring the rest away with not allowing for the AD title.  Well done... DESPITE all that, they end up with a good coach with a talented son and still let them squeak away.  LOL!

You gave 3 examples of non 5A/6A schools in the pretty large coverage area.  I can tell you that it's not common in the rest of the state either... nor should it be.  I think it's fair to say that the duties should be split between men's and women's.. but any school 4A and smaller should have the Head Football Coach as the AD.. as football is the majority money maker/spender within athletics.

And that in turn can lead to major abuses in how the athletics money is being spent.  I can tell you that has absolutely happened.  The HFC/AD can take more than their equal share to spend on football and not other sports. He would then justify it with what you just said, "football is the majority moneymaker/spender within athletics."  With a separate AD, that doesn't happen. 

By the way, you stated that  "I already know there aren't any others in SeTx", I countered with Splendora which is SETX. I didn't know I had to put a whole dang list. I'm sorry 3 isn't enough for you. 

It sounds like you have an axe to grind against Hardin.  I was not trying to "justify the fact" as you put it about the separate AD and HFC positions. Matter of fact, since you bring up justification,  if you go to the Hardin ISD page, and click on "Athletics", then "Football", you will see a subheading of "Hardin Hornets Coaching History." 

If you read that, then you will see that with the exception of Haynes, the majority of coaches lasted 2-4 years and that is a lot of turnover at the AD/HFC position.  As I said before, the separation of AD & HFC was to create a sense of consistency in the athletic program as a whole. If you don't like it, tough. Go whine somewhere else about how "Hardin is going to scare away coaches" because you're not going to convert me. 

 

[TXHORN_ET]

So if the Ad/Head Fb Coach is taking more than an equal share of the budget to spend on football and not other sports, isn’t that a violation of Title IX?

[highsky]

6 minutes ago, TXHORN_ET said:

So if the Ad/Head Fb Coach is taking more than an equal share of the budget to spend on football and not other sports, isn’t that a violation of Title IX?

Yep. 

[oldschool2]

3 minutes ago, highsky said:

And that in turn can lead to major abuses in how the athletics money is being spent.  I can tell you that has absolutely happened.  The HFC/AD can take more than their equal share to spend on football and not other sports. He would then justify it with what you just said, "football is the majority moneymaker/spender within athletics."  With a separate AD, that doesn't happen.

It sounds like you have an axe to grind against Hardin.  I was not trying to "justify the fact" as you put it about the separate AD and HFC positions. Matter of fact, if you go to the Hardin ISD page, and click on "Athletics", then "Football", you will see a subheading of "Hardin Hornets Coaching History."  If you read that, then you will see that with the exception of Haynes, the majority of coaches lasted 2-4 years and that is a lot of turnover at the AD/HFC position.  As I said before, the separation of AD & HFC was to create a sense of consistency in the athletic program as a whole. If you don't like it, tough. Go whine somewhere else about how "Hardin is going to scare away coaches" because you're not going to convert me. 

 

In all honesty, I couldn't care less what Hardin does or how they do it.  There's no axe to grind here... I'm simply offering an opinion as to how the school can make strides towards being more competitive.  You mention the word consistency.. there is no bigger advocate for consistency in a head coach than me.  That's evident in my responses to any thread on this site about any school.  There's no doubt that being consistent will be a good first step.  It seems to me, though, that the hiring of a very qualified, seasoned coach would take a little precedence considering that a usual alternative would be a young guy looking to eventually (probably sooner rather than later) bounce into a more favorable job.  That is my thoughts on ANY school doing this very thing.  Kountze and anybody else.  My only beef with any school would be pretending to want what's best for a head coach of any sport only to limit success for unlimited reasons.  Support, money, consistency, fan support (lack thereof), or anything.  I'm not the one that said the former coach didn't get the support he wanted so he left.  I heard some similar rumblings but don't know.  If Hardin has any history of mismanaging athletic funds, that's a completely different issue.  I'll argue that's not the case for MOST of the programs with an AD/HFC. And maybe you aren't trying to justify it but saying that it's starting to be common just because you gave 3 area examples just isn't true.

Know what... go ahead, Hardin.  Do Hardin.  Keep changing coaches every 2-4 years and wonder why the attempt at being consistent failed.  I'll pass on going to the website and take your word for it.  Again, I couldn't care less.  I'll forever defend any coaching staff that's only as good as the limited potential they're dealt and sleep just fine.

[highsky]

3 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

In all honesty, I couldn't care less what Hardin does or how they do it.  There's no axe to grind here... I'm simply offering an opinion as to how the school can make strides towards being more competitive.  You mention the word consistency.. there is no bigger advocate for consistency in a head coach than me.  That's evident in my responses to any thread on this site about any school.  There's no doubt that being consistent will be a good first step.  It seems to me, though, that the hiring of a very qualified, seasoned coach would take a little precedence considering that a usual alternative would be a young guy looking to eventually (probably sooner rather than later) bounce into a more favorable job.  That is my thoughts on ANY school doing this very thing.  Kountze and anybody else.  My only beef with any school would be pretending to want what's best for a head coach of any sport only to limit success for unlimited reasons.  Support, money, consistency, fan support (lack thereof), or anything.  I'm not the one that said the former coach didn't get the support he wanted so he left.  I heard some similar rumblings but don't know.  If Hardin has any history of mismanaging athletic funds, that's a completely different issue.  I'll argue that's not the case for MOST of the programs with an AD/HFC. And maybe you aren't trying to justify it but saying that it's starting to be common just because you gave 3 area examples just isn't true.

Know what... go ahead, Hardin.  Do Hardin.  Keep changing coaches every 2-4 years and wonder why the attempt at being consistent failed.  I'll pass on going to the website and take your word for it.  Again, I couldn't care less.  I'll forever defend any coaching staff that's only as good as the limited potential they're dealt and sleep just fine.

To be fair, I never said that it was Hardin mismanaging funds…just that it’s happened. 
 

Now this statement is more like what should be said, instead of the sarcastic comments you were saying in your other posts. Being civil is the way to go. 
 

Yes, Hardin has not had great luck with head coaches lately and I agree that it could be a springboard job to a better job for a young coach right now unless that coach has success for the first couple years then maybe it is parlay into a consistent role for Hardin (see Haynes). 
 

 

[AP_5309]

Hardin needs to hire John Stelly as HC and Mitch Vilemez 😂

[59n Sports]

Might as well go to the HF Jasper game