Lumberton PD officer kills machete wielding man

[tvc184]

 

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[bullets13]

That’s what happens 

[thetragichippy]

And we still get the comments they should of wounded him........He was frail......

I know plenty of 60 year old's that are FAR from frail....

[bullets13]

3 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

And we still get the comments they should of wounded him........He was frail......

I know plenty of 60 year old's that are FAR from frail....

bet that machete wasn't frail.

[tvc184]

This is yet another straw man.

So the ignorant make the claim that a police officer should not shoot a guy with a two foot long knife.

 They turn around and say the same officer should bring a one shot electric weapon. If the weapon doesn’t work (and reportedly it did not) or if it misses, the officer is likely dead  

Don’t bring a gun to a knife fight… bring a Taser.

A Taser is meant as a use of force to replace a baton. 

 When I started in police work, almost 40 years ago, we had no pepper spray, and no Taser. We had our hands and a 26” wooden baton. If a person resisted arrest, and it was not a deadly force situation, the options were to put hands on him and strike with the hands or strike with the baton. That seemed crude to some people. The Taser is meant as a hands on weapon to keep from having to beat a man down.

It is not and was never intended to be used against deadly force. 

[5GallonBucket]

23 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

This is yet another straw man.

So the ignorant make the claim that a police officer should not shoot a guy with a two foot long knife.

 They turn around and say the same officer should bring a one shot electric weapon. If the weapon doesn’t work (and reportedly it did not) or if it misses, the officer is likely dead  

Don’t bring a gun to a knife fight… bring a Taser.

A Taser is meant as a use of force to replace a baton. 

 When I started in police work, almost 40 years ago, we had no pepper spray, and no Taser. We had our hands and a 26” wooden baton. If a person resisted arrest, and it was not a deadly force situation, the options were to put hands on him and strike with the hands or strike with the baton. That seemed crude to some people. The Taser is meant as a hands on weapon to keep from having to beat a man down.

It is not and was never intended to be used against deadly force. 

What’s your thoughts on the effectiveness of tasers?

Deadly weapon: a persons fist,knees, elbows can be deadly 

[bullets13]

2 hours ago, 5GallonBucket said:

What’s your thoughts on the effectiveness of tasers?

Deadly weapon: a persons fist,knees, elbows can be deadly 

I watched a video the other day where an officer tazed a guy.  The guy dropped like a sack of potatoes, then rolled around and was able to eventually pull the prongs out and charged the officer who ended up shooting him.  Seems like they’re only effective to a certain point.  It’s dependent on A) getting good contact, and B ) whether or not it takes the fight out of the suspect.  And of course C) whether or not they’re on some sort of narcotic that makes them impervious to the taser’s effects 

[tvc184]

9 hours ago, 5GallonBucket said:

What’s your thoughts on the effectiveness of tasers?

Deadly weapon: a persons fist,knees, elbows can be deadly 

They can be extremely effective and in many or probably a majority of cases end a use of force incident instantly. It is maybe 90-95% effective against people who are not jacked up on drugs. It is both extremely painful and if there is enough spread on the darts/fish hooks, it can lock up large muscle groups. 

In one case I shocked a possibly armed man who was in a small restroom at a restaurant. He was making threats and we believed he had a knife. To keep from having to possibly kill him we were going to use the original Taser which is far different than what is available today. It kind of looked like the old Eveready 6v lantern battery flashlights.  BUT…. and this is protocol today, if a Taser is going to be used on a potential armed suspect, we must be prepared to apply deadly force instantly. That means one officer at least must be in the range to use the Taser (like 12 feet) which is much too close to a person with a knife or even club. In this case I was the unarmed (no deadly force weapons in hand) and had to rely on other officers behind me to use deadly force if needed. Basically we had to pull the door open placing me within about 6 feet of a guy with a knife, if he was armed. That tends to get your blood pressure cranked up. One officer had empty hands to take him down in a fight if needed, one had a pistol and the other a shotgun. The guy was unarmed but when I hit him with the Taser he shot out of that restroom and we had a heck of a struggle getting him in custody.  My sergeant who was on scene (the hands on officer) said he looked like a  bottle rocket coming out of there. A point in this case was, it put me in a potentially extremely dangerous position to try to keep from just killing this guy. There were no rules and said we had to use a Taser and that kind of situation. We don’t hear that in the media however. 

 The next time we were at yet another restaurant where another officer and I tried to get a drunk a ride home since he was passed out in the restaurant. This guy was about 300 pounds and decided to fight instead of taking a cab home. He charged and the other officer who sidestepped him in a great move and shoved him to the ground with us yelling for him to stay down. Wellll…. not when you are drunk. He came at me and I shot him with a Taser   but 1 dart either didn’t hit him or it got ripped out. He threw my partner against the wall and made a Taser could have been used on his back but it is a one shot weapon and has to be manually reloaded. I used it as a stun gun (which doesn’t stun but is excruciatingly painful) and drove it into his back to get him off of my partner. He stood up looking away from me and picked up a metal sign made with square pipes. He swung it like a baseball bat at me but I couldn’t see it coming but the other officer could but couldn’t stop it. At literally the last moment I saw it and put my left arm up to try and block a pipe being swung by a 300 pound guy. Fortunately I caught part of the blow with my arm. The pipe still hit my face. My partner saw so much blood fly that he thought it knocked my eye out. I grabbed my face in an instant reaction and could feel the cuts open up. I was pretty much covered in blood and threw my Taser down and used my Asp metal baton. That ended it.

 I spent a couple of hours in the hospital that day, I think the 5th time in the line of duty. My left arm had about a 3 inch bruise from my wrist to my elbow where it took much of the blow. They X-rayed my hand twice because it hurt to move my fingers but there was no broken bones. I opted to had my left eyebrow glued back together in two places rather than being sutured.

 The reason for the stories is to emphasize the potential failures of a Taser at the risk of sn officers’s life. I almost lost my eye, possibly my life and spent time in the hospital from using a Taser in what was an unarmed man. 

So I have used one twice and neither time did it stop the attack and 1 time really cost me.

I still think they are an awesome tool but the notion that an officer would face a deadly threat with a Taser is beyond stupid. I could give you other failures in my own department and at least two of which ended up causing a death, one from the Taser adding to a man’s injuries (I witnessed that one) and the other failure caused the suspect to be shot and killed. 

[5GallonBucket]

53 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

They can be extremely effective and in many or probably a majority of cases end a use of force incident instantly. It is maybe 90-95% effective against people who are not jacked up on drugs. It is both extremely painful and if there is enough spread on the darts/fish hooks, it can lock up large muscle groups. 

In one case I shocked a possibly armed man who was in a small restroom at a restaurant. He was making threats and we believed he had a knife. To keep from having to possibly kill him we were going to use the original Taser which is far different than what is available today. It kind of looked like the old Eveready 6v lantern battery flashlights.  BUT…. and this is protocol today, if a Taser is going to be used on a potential armed suspect, we must be prepared to apply deadly force instantly. That means one officer at least must be in the range to use the Taser (like 12 feet) which is much too close to a person with a knife or even club. In this case I was the unarmed (no deadly force weapons in hand) and had to rely on other officers behind me to use deadly force if needed. Basically we had to pull the door open placing me within about 6 feet of a guy with a knife, if he was armed. That tends to get your blood pressure cranked up. One officer had empty hands to take him down in a fight if needed, one had a pistol and the other a shotgun. The guy was unarmed but when I hit him with the Taser he shot out of that restroom and we had a heck of a struggle getting him in custody.  My sergeant who was on scene (the hands on officer) said he looked like a  bottle rocket coming out of there. A point in this case was, it put me in a potentially extremely dangerous position to try to keep from just killing this guy. There were no rules and said we had to use a Taser and that kind of situation. We don’t hear that in the media however. 

 The next time we were at yet another restaurant where another officer and I tried to get a drunk a ride home since he was passed out in the restaurant. This guy was about 300 pounds and decided to fight instead of taking a cab home. He charged and the other officer who sidestepped him in a great move and shoved him to the ground with us yelling for him to stay down. Wellll…. not when you are drunk. He came at me and I shot him with a Taser   but 1 dart either didn’t hit him or it got ripped out. He threw my partner against the wall and made a Taser could have been used on his back but it is a one shot weapon and has to be manually reloaded. I used it as a stun gun (which doesn’t stun but is excruciatingly painful) and drove it into his back to get him off of my partner. He stood up looking away from me and picked up a metal sign made with square pipes. He swung it like a baseball bat at me but I couldn’t see it coming but the other officer could but couldn’t stop it. At literally the last moment I saw it and put my left arm up to try and block a pipe being swung by a 300 pound guy. Fortunately I caught part of the blow with my arm. The pipe still hit my face. My partner saw so much blood fly that he thought it knocked my eye out. I grabbed my face in an instant reaction and could feel the cuts open up. I was pretty much covered in blood and threw my Taser down and used my Asp metal baton. That ended it.

 I spent a couple of hours in the hospital that day, I think the 5th time in the line of duty. My left arm had about a 3 inch bruise from my wrist to my elbow where it took much of the blow. They X-rayed my hand twice because it hurt to move my fingers but there was no broken bones. I opted to had my left eyebrow glued back together in two places rather than being sutured.

 The reason for the stories is to emphasize the potential failures of a Taser at the risk of sn officers’s life. I almost lost my eye, possibly my life and spent time in the hospital from using a Taser in what was an unarmed man. 

So I have used one twice and neither time did it stop the attack and 1 time really cost me.

I still think they are an awesome tool but the notion that an officer would face a deadly threat with a Taser is beyond stupid. I could give you other failures in my own department and at least two of which ended up causing a death, one from the Taser adding to a man’s injuries (I witnessed that one) and the other failure caused the suspect to be shot and killed. 

Thanks for sharing.

giving your 2 situations you shared is two too many in my opinion.

For a public servant to actively put themselves in harms way I feel like they are handicapped with such new technologies to a degree and even more so now in today’s climate. Now saying that I understand the statistics you provided as well as as it helps preserve life, and I’m not saying come in guns a blazing, but I’m against preserving life (perpetrator) at the stake of losing another(LEOs or bystander) all because of public opinion or some protocol written down in LEOs workplace handbook (because of legislation) that LEOs have to adhere to.  

I have several family members and friends in law enforcement(some retired and some still active). Call me bias but the public don’t expect a non LEO victim to use a taser on perp so why does the public expect an LEO to use taser as 1st option especially if LEO doesn’t have back up.

this guy got what he deserved plain and simple.

 

 

 

[tvc184]

6 hours ago, 5GallonBucket said:

Thanks for sharing.

giving your 2 situations you shared is two too many in my opinion.

For a public servant to actively put themselves in harms way I feel like they are handicapped with such new technologies to a degree and even more so now in today’s climate. Now saying that I understand the statistics you provided as well as as it helps preserve life, and I’m not saying come in guns a blazing, but I’m against preserving life (perpetrator) at the stake of losing another(LEOs or bystander) all because of public opinion or some protocol written down in LEOs workplace handbook (because of legislation) that LEOs have to adhere to.  

I have several family members and friends in law enforcement(some retired and some still active). Call me bias but the public don’t expect a non LEO victim to use a taser on perp so why does the public expect an LEO to use taser as 1st option especially if LEO doesn’t have back up.

this guy got what he deserved plain and simple.

 

 

 

A couple of days ago on Facebook a guy made a comment saying that the officer was wrong because he should have asked what the problem was, de-escalate the situation or whatever.

My follow up comment to him was, what questions would you have asked while a guy is coming at you with a machete?

I was less than shocked that he still hasn’t responded. 

[LumRaiderFan]

17 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

A couple of days ago on Facebook a guy made a comment saying that the officer was wrong because he should have asked what the problem was, de-escalate the situation or whatever.

My follow up comment to him was, what questions would you have asked while a guy is coming at you with a machete?

I was less than shocked that he still hasn’t responded. 

Good thing they didn't send one of those violence interrupters.

[thetragichippy]

On 10/12/2022 at 1:38 PM, tvc184 said:

A couple of days ago on Facebook a guy made a comment saying that the officer was wrong because he should have asked what the problem was, de-escalate the situation or whatever.

My follow up comment to him was, what questions would you have asked while a guy is coming at you with a machete?

I was less than shocked that he still hasn’t responded. 

On that same FB thread I sarcastically said the cop should of shot the manchette out of his hand or shot his thumbs off.......A few liked it and one commented thinking I was serious.......THAT is the state of our nation....lol