RIP Pele

[rupert3]

Legendary Soccer player Pele has passed away.  He has won 3 world championships.

[bullets13]

The original GOAT

[RETIREDFAN1]

R. I. P. 

[TxHoops]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:39 PM, bullets13 said:

The original GOAT

I’m not a soccer guy by any stretch.  I enjoy watching the bigger games but know next to nothing.  Growing up, it seemed like Pele was almost the undisputed GOAT.  However, it seems like that has changed.  Just curious as to who your top 5 would be (of all time)?

[bullets13]

On 1/3/2023 at 9:23 AM, TxHoops said:

I’m not a soccer guy by any stretch.  I enjoy watching the bigger games but know next to nothing.  Growing up, it seemed like Pele was almost the undisputed GOAT.  However, it seems like that has changed.  Just curious as to who your top 5 would be (of all time)?

Kind of a loaded question, as the game has changed so much.  Are we going by versus who they played at the time, or overall ability?  An average PGA tour player could go back in time and win just about every tournament. the numbers of Hall of Fame QB's line up with the bottom quarter of the league now.  I don't think Pele's skill level would be good enough to crack the starting 11 of Brazil's team these days, but what he did back then was unprecedented.  But that said, factoring in International and Club play, my top 5 would be: 

1. Lionel Messi (2nd all time goal scoring leader, all time assist leader, WC champ).  Spent the vast majority of his career at high ranking European clubs.
2. Christiano Ronaldo (all time goal scoring leader, 3rd all time assists, European champ) Spent the vast majority of his career at high ranking European clubs.
3. Pele (3rd all time leading goal scorer, 4x WC champ).  Played weaker competition in Brazil before coming to the US and playing terrible competition.

4 and beyond: many debates can be had.

 

Kylian Mbappe for France is 24 and is way ahead of Messi's pace of goals and assists at the club and national level.  He also has as many world cup goals through 2 world cups as Pele did in 4.  I think in 10-12 years He'll without a doubt be an easy inclusion to the all-time top-5 list, but the question is how high will he be.  If he avoids injury and chooses to play into his late 30s he'll likely be the all-time leaders in goals, assists, and possibly world cup goals as well.  There's a very good shot he's at the top of it when it's all said and done.  An argument can almost be made to put him in the top-5 now.  He's the Luka of soccer at this point.  Can we say Luka is a top-5 all-time player?  Not yet, but there's not much doubt he will be when he's done.

[TxHoops]

2 hours ago, bullets13 said:

Kind of a loaded question, as the game has changed so much.  Are we going by versus who they played at the time, or overall ability?  An average PGA tour player could go back in time and win just about every tournament. the numbers of Hall of Fame QB's line up with the bottom quarter of the league now.  I don't think Pele's skill level would be good enough to crack the starting 11 of Brazil's team these days, but what he did back then was unprecedented.  But that said, factoring in International and Club play, my top 5 would be: 

1. Lionel Messi (2nd all time goal scoring leader, all time assist leader, WC champ).  Spent the vast majority of his career at high ranking European clubs.
2. Christiano Ronaldo (all time goal scoring leader, 3rd all time assists, European champ) Spent the vast majority of his career at high ranking European clubs.
3. Pele (3rd all time leading goal scorer, 4x WC champ).  Played weaker competition in Brazil before coming to the US and playing terrible competition.

4 and beyond: many debates can be had.

 

Kylian Mbappe for France is 24 and is way ahead of Messi's pace of goals and assists at the club and national level.  He also has as many world cup goals through 2 world cups as Pele did in 4.  I think in 10-12 years He'll without a doubt be an easy inclusion to the all-time top-5 list, but the question is how high will he be.  If he avoids injury and chooses to play into his late 30s he'll likely be the all-time leaders in goals, assists, and possibly world cup goals as well.  There's a very good shot he's at the top of it when it's all said and done.  An argument can almost be made to put him in the top-5 now.  He's the Luka of soccer at this point.  Can we say Luka is a top-5 all-time player?  Not yet, but there's not much doubt he will be when he's done.

No Maradona?  I watched a doc on him once.  My boys are both huge soccer fans (you can probably guess one is an Mbappe fan).  They both have Maradona pretty high on their lists.  The oldest also has Messi #1 (he’s also a huge Messi fan) and the Mbappe fan goes Pele 1, Maradona 2.  

[bullets13]

5 hours ago, TxHoops said:

No Maradona?  I watched a doc on him once.  My boys are both huge soccer fans (you can probably guess one is an Mbappe fan).  They both have Maradona pretty high on their lists.  The oldest also has Messi #1 (he’s also a huge Messi fan) and the Mbappe fan goes Pele 1, Maradona 2.  

Maradona was great, but not top 5.  It’s really 1A) Messi, and 1B ) Ronaldo at this point, then everyone else.  Nobody in the history of soccer has come close to their stats, and they’ve done it at the highest levels their entire careers against a generation of players that are head and shoulders above those that preceded them.