Lumberton 69 West Orange-Stark 60/FINAL

[AggiesAreWe]

19-4A District play, tonight 7pm

[WOSdrummer99]

Lumberton  69

WOS             60

[bullets13]

What's up with the basketball team at WOS this year?  They were pretty dang competitive last year, took out HJ in the playoffs and almost dropped Yates as well.  1-13 this year, and not really even any close games. 

[AggiesAreWe]

Just now, bullets13 said:

What's up with the basketball team at WOS this year?  They were pretty dang competitive last year, took out HJ in the playoffs and almost dropped Yates as well.  1-13 this year, and not really even any close games. 

They miss Wardlow badly. Also the '6"7 post player and a PG from last year.

I saw them play at the YMBL, not good.

[bullets13]

Lumberton is not doing well either.  they're sitting at 10-12. 9 of their wins coming against teams with BAD losing records, the majority of which are in lower divisions (although to be fair, the majority of their non-district is always like this).  their one win against an opponent with a record above .500 was against a 3A school sitting at 11-8.  Not exactly a marquee win.  What's going on over there?  Last year it was "injuries."  Maybe it's something a little deeper, and their brief run of success had a lot more to do with their D1 player than other factors?  

[WOSdrummer99]

Volleyball lost all games

Girls basketball 1-8?

Boys 1-13

🗑🧢🤐🏳

[BADSANTA]

3 hours ago, AggiesAreWe said:

They miss Wardlow badly. Also the '6"7 post player and a PG from last year.

I saw them play at the YMBL, not good.

Did they graduate or move?

[BADSANTA]

3 hours ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

Volleyball lost all games

Girls basketball 1-8?

Boys 1-13

🗑🧢🤐🏳

Where is the talent in Orange now? LCM? 

[AggiesAreWe]

1 hour ago, BADSANTA said:

Did they graduate or move?

Graduate

[TrojanWarrior08]

6 hours ago, bullets13 said:

Lumberton is not doing well either.  they're sitting at 10-12. 9 of their wins coming against teams with BAD losing records, the majority of which are in lower divisions (although to be fair, the majority of their non-district is always like this).  their one win against an opponent with a record above .500 was against a 3A school sitting at 11-8.  Not exactly a marquee win.  What's going on over there?  Last year it was "injuries."  Maybe it's something a little deeper, and their brief run of success had a lot more to do with their D1 player than other factors?  

Unfortunately that team was us... We're not that great this season either but then again our district isn't either.  Look for us to be the 2nd place to come out of our district as I think New Waverly will sweep us in the district twice.  Tarkington will also have something to say.

[WOSdrummer99]

2 hours ago, BADSANTA said:

Where is the talent in Orange now? LCM? 

Most still here for the time being. But yes LCM is the easy transfer. Don't even need to move. LCM also has a tuition assistance program to help low income students. 80% of students currently qualify for free lunch.

🤐

[BADSANTA]

15 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

Most still here for the time being. But yes LCM is the easy transfer. Don't even need to move. LCM also has a tuition assistance program to help low income students. 80% of students currently qualify for free lunch.

🤐

Dang I never knew there was that much poverty in Orange. Its been a long time since I've been that way. 

[TxHoops]

3 hours ago, BADSANTA said:

Where is the talent in Orange now? LCM? 

Yep

[WOSdrummer99]

2 hours ago, TxHoops said:

Yep

I disagree and say there are alot of talented kids at WOS. Talent alone can only go so far. I don't keep up with basketball nearly as much as you guys. Are there players on other teams that have transfered from WOS?

[AggiesAreWe]

19 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

I disagree and say there are alot of talented kids at WOS. Talent alone can only go so far. I don't keep up with basketball nearly as much as you guys. Are there players on other teams that have transfered from WOS?

Not to my knowledge.

[TxHoops]

1 hour ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

I disagree and say there are alot of talented kids at WOS. Talent alone can only go so far. I don't keep up with basketball nearly as much as you guys. Are there players on other teams that have transfered from WOS?

Not that I’m aware of.  And I think you are correct with athletes.  But some good kids have gone through LCM in recent years who would have been mustangs.  

[5GallonBucket]

23 hours ago, bullets13 said:

Lumberton is not doing well either.  they're sitting at 10-12. 9 of their wins coming against teams with BAD losing records, the majority of which are in lower divisions (although to be fair, the majority of their non-district is always like this).  their one win against an opponent with a record above .500 was against a 3A school sitting at 11-8.  Not exactly a marquee win.  What's going on over there?  Last year it was "injuries."  Maybe it's something a little deeper, and their brief run of success had a lot more to do with their D1 player than other factors?  

what do u mean something deeper?? Lumberton didn’t have a a div 1 player the other two times Lumberton made the playoffs..the kid worked hard and then became one..and let’s be honest He s at Lamar.  Bottom of d1 as of now.  If Lumberton didn’t make the playoffs with such kid then I can understand the hate, but they did make the playoffs as well won a DC.

Lumberton had made playoffs 4 times in 60 years, their head coach been a part of all 4, 3 as head coach and 1 as a player

why so much hate?

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, 5GallonBucket said:

what do u mean something deeper?? Lumberton didn’t have a a div 1 player the other two times Lumberton made the playoffs..the kid worked hard and then became one..and let’s be honest He s at Lamar.  Bottom of d1 as of now.  If Lumberton didn’t make the playoffs with such kid then I can understand the hate, but they did make the playoffs as well won a DC.

Lumberton had made playoffs 4 times in 60 years, their head coach been a part of all 4, 3 as head coach and 1 as a player

why so much hate?

I've mentioned before about the fact that there's a lot pointing to him coming on this site with multiple accounts talking crap about coaches way more accomplished than himself, while making himself out to be one of the elite coaches in the area.  One of those coaches is a man i played for and have much respect for, so that's part of it.  That said, I'm fully willing to give him some credit for improving Lumberton in his time there.  But is it really a testament to his ability as a coach that he took them to the playoffs in 2019 for the first time in 20 years? What about the fact that he had the best player in school history, an elite coach in his first and only year as his assistant, and that they'd dropped down to 4A after he'd managed to coach them to 3 total district wins in the previous 4 years in 5A?  A 117-131 record, with more than half of those wins coming against 3A/below competition, and a 40-71 record in district over ten years just doesn't scream "Elite" to me, despite what some might say.  

[5GallonBucket]

28 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I've mentioned before about the fact that there's a lot pointing to him coming on this site with multiple accounts talking crap about coaches way more accomplished than himself, while making himself out to be one of the elite coaches in the area.  One of those coaches is a man i played for and have much respect for, so that's part of it.  That said, I'm fully willing to give him some credit for improving Lumberton in his time there.  But is it really a testament to his ability as a coach that he took them to the playoffs in 2019 for the first time in 20 years? What about the fact that he had the best player in school history, an elite coach in his first and only year as his assistant, and that they'd dropped down to 4A after he'd managed to coach them to 3 total district wins in the previous 4 years in 5A?  A 117-131 record, with more than half of those wins coming against 3A/below competition, and a 40-71 record in district over ten years just doesn't scream "Elite" to me, despite what some might say.  

why has Lumberton only made the playoffs with him only being there?? So u think Lumberton had the kids to beat central, memorial, Ozen, Nederland, lee, goose creek lol come on, Brock was a soph in 2019, he didn’t even start all the games, say all good coaches who want to build something want good assistants and didn’t he beat that guy twice the next year?? Mitchell didn’t have him as the assistant the other 2 times, seems like hating to me, lumberton has been 3a and 4A like 97 of percent of the time and he had to coach in the toughest 5a district for 4 years with 3a type kids and say if ur going  by maxpreps for scores and records remember teams play 35-38 games a year maxpreps isn’t always right 

[cb3plus3]

32 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I've mentioned before about the fact that there's a lot pointing to him coming on this site with multiple accounts talking crap about coaches way more accomplished than himself, while making himself out to be one of the elite coaches in the area.  One of those coaches is a man i played for and have much respect for, so that's part of it.  That said, I'm fully willing to give him some credit for improving Lumberton in his time there.  But is it really a testament to his ability as a coach that he took them to the playoffs in 2019 for the first time in 20 years? What about the fact that he had the best player in school history, an elite coach in his first and only year as his assistant, and that they'd dropped down to 4A after he'd managed to coach them to 3 total district wins in the previous 4 years in 5A?  A 117-131 record, with more than half of those wins coming against 3A/below competition, and a 40-71 record in district over ten years just doesn't scream "Elite" to me, despite what some might say.  

all teams need great players. If you think BU and silsbee doing all this without players it doesn't happened. So arguing he did it with Brock is just poor. He did it without Brock too. The difference with programs like Lumberton and what Mitchell has done there is he takes average talent and devlopes it to the best potential. Everyone always down on the guy, we play against him every year. He not a bad dude he just not your style of coach is all. I also know he is extremely competitive and does what he can to help his kids outside of HS get college scholarships. There are 4 kids right now that I know playing basketball in college becuse he helped them. Sure there are other programs in our district with better talent than at Lumberton. The fact that Mitchell frustrates teams year over year is because of his ability to adapt his coaching style towards players strengths.  Don't ever look past Lumberton on a down year. He has kids like Jackson Spears chucking up 35 pts and that new PG from San Antonio gonna be special. He got his team late this year due to half his team coming from football. If we are judging on mere wins, Silsbee would have to be in that conversation. But we know the talent is there and the Ws are coming. I'm not sure who will be in the running for playoffs but I honestly hope Lumberton is out since I am a BC dad. Just not sure that's the case. 

[bullets13]

49 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

why has Lumberton only made the playoffs with him only being there?? So u think Lumberton had the kids to beat central, memorial, Ozen, Nederland, lee, goose creek lol come on, Brock was a soph in 2019, he didn’t even start all the games, say all good coaches who want to build something want good assistants and didn’t he beat that guy twice the next year?? Mitchell didn’t have him as the assistant the other 2 times, seems like hating to me, lumberton has been 3a and 4A like 97 of percent of the time and he had to coach in the toughest 5a district for 4 years with 3a type kids and say if ur going  by maxpreps for scores and records remember teams play 35-38 games a year maxpreps isn’t always right 

correct.  a lot of lumberton's losses don't get reported on there.  tournament games that have to be added by an admin tend to not get added when they're losses.  when a team plays a tourney, a team admin (coach) or MP admin has to add games to the schedule.  In the most recent tourney Lumberton played, Mitchell reported their win over goodrich and added the game vs apple springs to the schedule which another lumbertoner reported the score to, but didn't add either the woodville or jasper game onto their schedule, both of which they lost.  The woodville coach reported their win over Lumberton, but the jasper coach did not, so Lumberton's record is currently incorrect. as a scorekeeper who reports local basketball and football scores for maxpreps, I've scored 3 lumberton basketball losses this year that weren't reported.  Someone from Lumberton has managed to report every win, though.  But i'm just going by what's in front of me.  I do agree with some of your other points, and like I said, he deserves some credit for what he's done.  But not as much as he's given himself. As for having the talent to beat those 5A teams, I feel like an elite coach would find a way to do better than 3-44 (out of games reported) over 4 seasons.  Central, PAM, Nederland and Ozen were obviously tough, but there were plenty of opportunity to beat bad and average teams during those 4 years in district.  Lee, GCM, Vidor, PNG, twice a season: every one of those games should've been winnable.  He shouldn't have won them all, but 3 in 4 years when you're getting 8 district games a year with beatable teams is pretty bad.  

[cb3plus3]

27 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

correct.  a lot of lumberton's losses don't get reported on there.  tournament games that have to be added by an admin tend to not get added when they're losses.  For example, when a team plays a tourney, a team admin (coach) has to add games to the schedule.  In the most recent tourney Lumberton played, Mitchell reported their win over goodrich and added the game vs apple springs to the schedule which another lumbertoner reported the score to, but didn't add either the woodville or jasper game onto their schedule, both of which they lost.  The woodville coach reported their win over Lumberton, but the jasper coach did not, so Lumberton's record is currently incorrect. as a scorekeeper who reports local basketball and football scores for maxpreps, I've scored 3 lumberton basketball losses this year that weren't reported.  Someone from Lumberton has managed to report every win, though.  But i'm just going by what's in front of me.  I do agree with some of your other points, and like I said, he deserves some credit for what he's done.  But not as much as he's given himself. As for having the talent to beat those 5A teams, I feel like an elite coach would find a way to do better than 3-44 (out of games reported) over 4 seasons.  Central and Ozen were obviously tough, but there were plenty of opportunity to beat bad and average teams during those 4 years in district.  Lee, GCM, Vidor, PNG, twice a season: every one of those games should've been winnable.  He shouldn't have won them all, but one most years is bad.    

 

[cb3plus3]

Just now, cb3plus3 said:

 

It takes time to develop programs too. Not sure the dates when he went to Lumberton but culture is a tough thing to change. Lumberton been a baseball and FB school for a while. We experience similar things at BC. As far as reporting wins amd losses, I've seen that from several programs. If Maxpreps is the source you rely on, may want to try and figure out a better way. I have been disappointed in Maxpreps for years. WOS girls are the worse I've seen at reporting on maxpreps. Try to get a correct roster from half the teams out there. Every program I know of except for Evadale boys and girls  doesn't properly use maxpreps. These two squads do excellent. 

[bullets13]

Just now, cb3plus3 said:

It takes time to develop programs too. Not sure the dates when he went to Lumberton but culture is a tough thing to change. Lumberton been a baseball and FB school for a while. We experience similar things at BC. As far as reporting wins amd losses, I've seen that from several programs. If Maxpreps is the source you rely on, may want to try and figure out a better way. I have been disappointed in Maxpreps for years. WOS girls are the worse I've seen at reporting on maxpreps. Try to get a correct roster from half the teams out there. Every program I know of except for Evadale boys and girls  doesn't properly use maxpreps. These two squads do excellent. 

there are plenty of schools who don't use it properly, but plenty who do.  my only point in my reply to him is that, as someone who provides scores for maxpreps, I know without dispute that Lumberton is a school that reports all wins but relies on the other school to report their losses.  So when he stated that using maxpreps is not a fair way to attain Lumberton's record over 10 years I agree, but that their record is without a doubt worse than what I provided.  

[cb3plus3]

9 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

there are plenty of schools who don't use it properly, but plenty who do.  my only point in my reply to him is that, as someone who provides scores for maxpreps, I know without dispute that Lumberton is a school that reports all wins but relies on the other school to report their losses.  So when he stated that using maxpreps is not a fair way to attain Lumberton's record over 10 years I agree, but that their record is without a doubt worse than what I provided.  

I think it's really important to point out, if you say that about him, we have to point out others. I'm not sure what school affliation you are with but I know he is passionate about opening the gym for kids and trying to help build a program wherever he goes. His w/l record is about .500 for his career from Spurger, Deweyville and Lumberton I believe.  And those are by no means basketball first programs so I'm not sure how you argue with the stats. HS basketball is tough in SETX I'm just saying only a handful of coaches that have better than .500 record for over a decade. I remember when schools like HF, Nederland, OF, and others couldn't get quality pre season games before their current program coaches. It's not easy to load a schedule like Silsbee or BU. Barbers Hill came and played at LCM tourney and had no business there. #14 5A team playing tarkington, BC, Anuhac, LCM, etc. All lower class schools. East Chambers goes to tournaments they shouldn't play at either. Evadale isn't a special tourney for EC to win. Same time as Nederland so why don't they do that tourney? Those are padded wins too. So I think it's really hard to judge any program how they get to their own records the only one that matters is the end of season record.