SETX Officiating - A Victim of an Official Shortage or an Epidemic of Incompetence

[gogo173489]

7 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

So the issue is just southeast texas officials? They aren’t having these same problems in other areas? 

The 8-10 games I've seen that were officiated by chapters outside of setx were called light years better than any game I have seen in setx this season. 

[HFHorns23]

i have seen exactly 8 games this year outside of the local chapters and have the opposite opinion. Guess it is all perspective. 

[oldschool2]

Know what post I've never seen?  I've never seen someone say, "I decided to become an official and help.  I've heard there's a shortage and I'm not satisfied with the product I've seen during games when it comes to officiating... So I'm going to be proactive."

What I HAVE SEEN... is a seemingly endless amount of whining and complaining.  I suppose it's easier to be an expert from the bleachers. 

[gogo173489]

24 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Know what post I've never seen?  I've never seen someone say, "I decided to become an official and help.  I've heard there's a shortage and I'm not satisfied with the product I've seen during games when it comes to officiating... So I'm going to be proactive."

What I HAVE SEEN... is a seemingly endless amount of whining and complaining.  I suppose it's easier to be an expert from the bleachers. 

Yet another response saying "everyone who has an issue with officials should become one." It's quite a silly suggestion. Some probably have an issue with the window person at McDonald's getting their order wrong all the time. Does that mean they should go work part-time at McDonald's to correct the issue? Maybe a part-time gig at Academy because you can never get help there when needed? How about going to work at your local grocery store part-time because the check out lines are slow? 

[Knox34]

Once again you make zero sense!!  I don’t think you’re grasping the fact this is not their full time jobs. It’s something they do to keep our kids able to play sports. I think we might be a victim of incompetence here in this group. 

[itsme2]

1 hour ago, gogo173489 said:

I do get it. I just don't care. The best officials need to officiate the varsity games. If these are the best setx has to offer, then there is an internal issue somewhere.

If you don't care why are you on here bashing officials... I will say there are just as many incompetent/horrible officials in other areas of the state/nation by percentage as there are in SETX, you just don't get the pleasure of seeing them on a regular basis to form an opinion that there are better officials outside SETX. I've seen them even worked with them.

Gogo I agree officials should be knowledgeable of the rules and be able to apply those rules  correctly.  Officials should take some pride in themselves to want and be able to call a near perfect game, because if ever as an official call that elusive perfect game she/he should hang up that whistle. Many officials put up the effort to become a decent official but there is a segment that just out there for the $$ and they are just like you THEY DON'T CARE! 

Every season we have you or guys like you to point out how bad the officiating is here in SETX, but again like the other poster mentioned ( where is your solution?) .... I have one if hyou will take me up on it, maybe you with all your basketball officiating rules knowledge come join one of the two local chapters to JUST train/teach the officials (seriously), you don't have to get on the court to call any games JUST HELP US GET TO LEVEL of officiating you so desire! 

Thank in advance 

 

[Knox34]

Real question itsme 2….. is the level of disrespect towards officials higher in this area than other areas you have officiated?  

[oldschool2]

48 minutes ago, gogo173489 said:

Yet another response saying "everyone who has an issue with officials should become one." It's quite a silly suggestion. Some probably have an issue with the window person at McDonald's getting their order wrong all the time. Does that mean they should go work part-time at McDonald's to correct the issue? Maybe a part-time gig at Academy because you can never get help there when needed? How about going to work at your local grocery store part-time because the check out lines are slow? 

Anyone who eats at McDonald's expecting to get their order correct... deserves it to be wrong.  Similarly, expecting much help from any minimum wage employee might lead to disappointment.  Expect it. You can always accept the fact that human error is a part of it and know that if you're seeing missed calls, it's probably happening to the other team as well.  Evens out.  They'll get better with experience and believe it or not, there's pretty extensive training they have to go through.  Much more than McDonald's employees I'm sure.

[itsme2]

9 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

Real question itsme 2….. is the level of disrespect towards officials higher in this area than other areas you have officiated?  

It's the same from the local towards their local officials, again there are horrible officials/officiating everywhere.... locals get more opportunities to see their locals officials miss calls or have more opportunities to disagree with those calls. I wish GOGO would take me up on my offer maybe he could lend his experience to help out the area officials. 

[Knox34]

Makes sense. Well we appreciate you going out there time and time again and putting up with all these fans that know way more than you.  You have balls and thick skin for sure. 

[Coach 01]

I've been to alot of games this year. The worst officiated game I have seen, by far, was called by the Houston Chapter. But, could be a matter of perspective as the team I pull for was on the wrong side of 90% of the calls. I assume the team we were playing against thought it was a well officiated game and would probably welcome that particular crew back with open arms.

Officials have gotten worse, parents have gotten worse, kids have gotten worse, and coaches have gotten worse. I have been embarrassed of some of the crap I hear from our own fans. More than a handful of coaches that spend more time with their hands up and begging for calls than they do coaching their kids. Kids with zero respect for any type of adult or authority figure. Officials that get offended and use the whistle or lack thereof as a tool to get back and the people that are yelling and screaming at them. I would say the vast majority of the "bad calls" I have seen this year isn't a matter of knowing the rules. It feels like they know full well what the rules are, but you wanna yell and scream and act like a fool and disparage my every move, watch this call not go your way again the rest of the game. It's not right, but that's typically what a "poorly officiated game" is the result of, from what I have seen.

You also get what you pay for. $15 an hour for 3-4 hours on a Friday night is dirt cheap. My solution for the quality official shortage, would be to offer quality compensation. $75 a night is not getting high level officials in the door, and it definitely isn't going to keep them there long.  

 

[gogo173489]

1 hour ago, itsme2 said:

If you don't care why are you on here bashing officials... I will say there are just as many incompetent/horrible officials in other areas of the state/nation by percentage as there are in SETX, you just don't get the pleasure of seeing them on a regular basis to form an opinion that there are better officials outside SETX. I've seen them even worked with them.

Gogo I agree officials should be knowledgeable of the rules and be able to apply those rules  correctly.  Officials should take some pride in themselves to want and be able to call a near perfect game, because if ever as an official call that elusive perfect game she/he should hang up that whistle. Many officials put up the effort to become a decent official but there is a segment that just out there for the $$ and they are just like you THEY DON'T CARE! 

Every season we have you or guys like you to point out how bad the officiating is here in SETX, but again like the other poster mentioned ( where is your solution?) .... I have one if hyou will take me up on it, maybe you with all your basketball officiating rules knowledge come join one of the two local chapters to JUST train/teach the officials (seriously), you don't have to get on the court to call any games JUST HELP US GET TO LEVEL of officiating you so desire! 

Thank in advance 

 

I don't care that it's their part time job. I should have been more clear.

[Knox34]

Don’t know why it’s so hard to understand what Gogo wants…. Highly trained great officials at every 3-4a game across the state of texas. It’s a very simple request.  

[gogo173489]

1 hour ago, itsme2 said:

If you don't care why are you on here bashing officials... I will say there are just as many incompetent/horrible officials in other areas of the state/nation by percentage as there are in SETX, you just don't get the pleasure of seeing them on a regular basis to form an opinion that there are better officials outside SETX. I've seen them even worked with them.

Gogo I agree officials should be knowledgeable of the rules and be able to apply those rules  correctly.  Officials should take some pride in themselves to want and be able to call a near perfect game, because if ever as an official call that elusive perfect game she/he should hang up that whistle. Many officials put up the effort to become a decent official but there is a segment that just out there for the $$ and they are just like you THEY DON'T CARE! 

Every season we have you or guys like you to point out how bad the officiating is here in SETX, but again like the other poster mentioned ( where is your solution?) .... I have one if hyou will take me up on it, maybe you with all your basketball officiating rules knowledge come join one of the two local chapters to JUST train/teach the officials (seriously), you don't have to get on the court to call any games JUST HELP US GET TO LEVEL of officiating you so desire! 

Thank in advance 

 

What I want is competence and consistency. Again, all of you guys that believe all officials are beyond reproach and should never be questioned about anything at all regarding their part-time jobs, always making the suggestion that the people who want consistency should become officials themselves are unrealistic. how about the local chapter do what they can to make the officials they have better? I get it, a lot of people just complain to complain. I'll give you that. I'm not that guy. I don't say anything at the games. The majority of the games I watch I have no rooting interest in. I've never seen the officiating in this area as bad as it is now, and I've been watching games for 25 years or so.

[itsme2]

1 hour ago, gogo173489 said:

Yet another response saying "everyone who has an issue with officials should become one." It's quite a silly suggestion. Some probably have an issue with the window person at McDonald's getting their order wrong all the time. Does that mean they should go work part-time at McDonald's to correct the issue? Maybe a part-time gig at Academy because you can never get help there when needed? How about going to work at your local grocery store part-time because the check out lines are slow? 

SETX Officiating - A Victim of an Official Shortage or an Epidemic of Incompetence 

In a nutshell the answer to your question is Both. The shortage leads to less experience officials calling those varsity games you are referring to (nationwide issue).

I guarantee if you had the equivalent opportunities to view other chapters games you will have the opinion about all officials chapters (They're ALL horrible) and I'm okay with that but I do know you can't out officiate me. That's the mentality I have when the fans start yelling at me... Not out arrogants but out of confident because I put in the work to be that decent official I mention earlier * (I can't say that for others... they must take pride in themselves)

 

[gogo173489]

3 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

Don’t know why it’s so hard to understand what Gogo wants…. Highly trained great officials at every 3-4a game across the state of texas. It’s a very simple request.  

No, I want competent officials. Officials that don't call technical fouls for kids coming on to the court during a timeout because he had no idea another official granted the time out. Then, refuse to correct himself because being right was more important than getting it right. Intentional fouls called on kids simply trying to foul at the end of a game to put the other team on the line. An official that understands that going through someone's back to get a rebound is different than a taller player simply jumping higher. You know, simple things. No one is asking for perfection here, just improvement of consistency.

[itsme2]

2 minutes ago, gogo173489 said:

No, I want competent officials. Officials that don't call technical fouls for kids coming on to the court during a timeout because he had no idea another official granted the time out. Then, refuse to correct himself because being right was more important than getting it right. Intentional fouls called on kids simply trying to foul at the end of a game to put the other team on the line. An official that understands that going through someone's back to get a rebound is different than a taller player simply jumping higher. You know, simple things. No one is asking for perfection here, just improvement of consistency.

Again you seem to have some knowledge come help out just with training. 

[oldschool2]

4 minutes ago, gogo173489 said:

No, I want competent officials. Officials that don't call technical fouls for kids coming on to the court during a timeout because he had no idea another official granted the time out. Then, refuse to correct himself because being right was more important than getting it right. Intentional fouls called on kids simply trying to foul at the end of a game to put the other team on the line. An official that understands that going through someone's back to get a rebound is different than a taller player simply jumping higher. You know, simple things. No one is asking for perfection here, just improvement of consistency.

Incompetent officials?  Thanks a lot, Russia. smh

[Knox34]

The game that Gogo keeps referring to I believe there were 3 technical fouls called on that team that game and I think that might go back to what Coach 01 said!! You treat them poorly show them no respect and you get what you get.  

[gogo173489]

4 minutes ago, itsme2 said:

Again you seem to have some knowledge come help out just with training. 

Again with this stuff.. I have no doubt you're one of the good ones just from your post on here. Sounds like you take pride in being a good official and that's fantastic. If we had more like you there wouldn't be an issue. Would people still complain? Sure, that's the nature of the beast, but there would be consistency. Let's be clear on what I'm actually saying with my original post.. I didn't name any official. nor did I say they're all terrible. That's just not the case. The good ones are showing up less often these days because there are fewer of them.

[gogo173489]

2 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

The game that Gogo keeps referring to I believe there were 3 technical fouls called on that team that game and I think that might go back to what Coach 01 said!! You treat them poorly show them no respect and you get what you get.  

If it is the same game? I'm not sure. However, treatment of the official bad or good does not justify that kind of call. There was no bad treatment of the official in the timeframe this particular technical foul was called. Looking at it the way you just described is part of the problem. An official making calls because he's pissed at one coach or another is out of line. Just the same as its out of line for a coach to verbally berate an official. I keep referring to that particular call because it was by far the most egregiously poor call I've seen this season. 

[bullets13]

5 minutes ago, gogo173489 said:

Again with this stuff.. I have no doubt you're one of the good ones just from your post on here. Sounds like you take pride in being a good official and that's fantastic. If we had more like you there wouldn't be an issue. Would people still complain? Sure, that's the nature of the beast, but there would be consistency. Let's be clear on what I'm actually saying with my original post.. I didn't name any official. nor did I say they're all terrible. That's just not the case. The good ones are showing up less often these days because there are fewer of them.

I've seen a lot of things you want, but not really any suggestions from you to remedy the problem. In fact, not only do you not want to help in any way, you've also made it pretty clear that you don't care about the fact that these guys are doing this for next to no compensation for the kids and a love of the game.  So apart from having these great officials magically appear that will be willing to put up with the nonsense from players, coaches, and fans while traveling extensively for minimal compensation, what do you propose should happen?

[Knox34]

I do agree. But I don’t think that’s a competency issue. I believe that’s a grown man tired of getting beat on and wasn’t going to change that call. Which shouldn’t happen but as far as the complaint about getting consistency it’s going to take time right now. I think that’s all anybody is trying to say. We lost a lot of good guys and keep losing more because of the treatment they receive. That’s my point 

[gogo173489]

1 minute ago, bullets13 said:

I've seen a lot of things you want, but not really any suggestions from you to remedy the problem. In fact, not only do you not want to help in any way, you've also made it pretty clear that you don't care about the fact that these guys are doing this for next to no compensation for the kids and a love of the game.  So apart from having these great officials magically appear that will be willing to put up with the nonsense from players, coaches, and fans while traveling extensively for minimal compensation, what do you propose should happen?

Here you go:

1. Improved training. Not more training but improved training. New officials traveling with an experienced crew to observe and learn would be a good start. Have them involved with the halftime and end of quarter conversations the officials have about the game and how it's going.

2. Better pay. I'm not exactly sure what they get paid now, but from what I've seen on this thread its around $50-$75 a game? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Mileage expense would be a start if the official is traveling more than 25 miles to a game. 

3. A requirement to have 1 year of experience before being allowed to officiate any varsity district game or playoff game. Tournaments and non- district games would be good for experience.

4. More strict rules on fans being enforced at games. One warning for inappropriate conduct and after that its adios. Most fans that are loud and critical of the officials change their tune after a warning. (For that game anyway.)

This in my mind would be a good start.

[bullets13]

2 minutes ago, gogo173489 said:

Here you go:

1. Improved training. Not more training but improved training. New officials traveling with an experienced crew to observe and learn would be a good start. Have them involved with the halftime and end of quarter conversations the officials have about the game and how it's going.

2. Better pay. I'm not exactly sure what they get paid now, but from what I've seen on this thread its around $50-$75 a game? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Mileage expense would be a start if the official is traveling more than 25 miles to a game. 

3. A requirement to have 1 year of experience before being allowed to officiate any varsity district game or playoff game. Tournaments and non- district games would be good for experience.

4. More strict rules on fans being enforced at games. One warning for inappropriate conduct and after that its adios. Most fans that are loud and critical of the officials change their tune after a warning. (For that game anyway.)

This in my mind would be a good start.

Not a bad list.  But who pays for all this?  And who pays for the officials who're traveling to train the crews?