Vidor is open !!

[purpleeagle]

18 hours ago, Mr. Thornton Melon said:

Normally you wouldn't but this is Vidor we're talking about here

They could not afford Dodge.

[AggiesAreWe]

7 hours ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

DWAYNE DUBOIS
9 years 45-51-0
---staff, Vidor--
2013    Hardin-Jefferson     8-5-0 T
2014    Hardin-Jefferson  11-2-0 R
2015    Bridge City                7-4-0 T
2016    Bridge City                9-3-0
2017    Bridge City                1-7-0
2018    Hardin-Jefferson     2-8-0
2019    Hardin-Jefferson     1-9-0 F
2020    Hardin-Jefferson     5-5-0 T
2021    Hardin-Jefferson     1-8-0

ALVIN CREDEUR
7 years 34-39-0
2013    Lumberton       4-6-0
2014    Lumberton    11-2-0 C
2015    Lumberton      8-2-0 C
2016    Lumberton      5-5-0
2017    Lumberton      5-5-0
2018    Lumberton      1-9-0
2019    Lumberton     0-10-0

 

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Credeur coached Lumberton back in 2007.

He hasn't coached at Lumberton since 2015 I believe.

[setxathlete14]

15 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Credeur coached Lumberton back in 2007.

He hasn't coached at Lumberton since 2015 I believe.

He has been an assistant at vidor though correct?

[AggiesAreWe]

3 minutes ago, setxathlete14 said:

He has been an assistant at vidor though correct?

Correct

[WOSdrummer99]

30 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Credeur coached Lumberton back in 2007.

He hasn't coached at Lumberton since 2015 I believe.

Thanks for the correction. Lol fixed it

[Separation Scientist]

On 1/26/2023 at 8:02 AM, oldschool2 said:

There are always and will always be exceptions to the rule.  Especially when a school gets a run of D1 commits through the program.  Either way.. it's documented that household income, school tax base, and poverty correlate to success in athletics.  To ignore that is just naïve.  You should take a field trip to other areas of the state and look at what poor schools are competing with.  State of art facilities, immaculate neighborhoods, brand new businesses, etc.  Player A (6'4 220) has two working parents, attends summer camps/workouts around the country, has a dietician, has a personal trainer, has a private tutor, has 24hr access to the nicest facilities money can buy, has 3+ of the most nutritious meals imaginable that are specifically designed for health/performance, and has a team full of friends/teammates with the same exact life.  Player B (6'4 220) has to work summers/weekends to help around the house, can't afford sports camp, eats whatever happens to be in the house, lifts/trains alone in a 30 year old weight room when he can find a ride, has zero teammates willing to put in extra work with him.

Who has the head start, Player A or Player B?  If you don't think that and similar scenarios play out across the state... you're either ignorant or stubborn.

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So is there any correlation to athleticism???  

I ask because people whine about "money always wins" which is totally false, but never seem to acknowledge that many "poor" school have overwhelming athleticism. Isn't that a huge, huge advantage? Look at North Shore, one of the most impoverished communities around, they won 3 of the last 4 6A Championships. 

Your example should compare a 5'10", 185lb "rich kid" who runs a 5.3 with a 15in. vertical, to a 6'1" 190lb "poor kid" who runs a 4.5 with a 22in. vertical. Who would you start? 

        

[Setx fan]

3 hours ago, Separation Scientist said:

 

Your example should compare a 5'10", 185lb "rich kid" who runs a 5.3 with a 15in. vertical, to a 6'1" 190lb "poor kid" who runs a 4.5 with a 22in. vertical. Who would you start? 

        

The 5'10" kid will probably have a hard time getting playing time anywhere with that 5.3 40. 😂 I don't think that's the norm 

[Separation Scientist]

17 minutes ago, Setx fan said:

The 5'10" kid will probably have a hard time getting playing time anywhere with that 5.3 40. 😂 I don't think that's the norm 

You are just trying to poke a hole in my example.  Let me rephrase for YOU:

Your example should compare a 5'11", 190lb "rich kid" who runs a 5.1 with a 16in. vertical, to a 6'1" 190lb "poor kid" who runs a 4.5 with a 22in. vertical. Who would you start?

Happy now?  

 

[Setx fan]

2 minutes ago, Separation Scientist said:

You are just trying to poke a hole in my example.  Let me rephrase for YOU:

Your example should compare a 5'11", 190lb "rich kid" who runs a 5.1 with a 16in. vertical, to a 6'1" 190lb "poor kid" who runs a 4.5 with a 22in. vertical. Who would you start?

Happy now?  

 

Maybe that'll get it done in 6 man 😂 

[Mr. Thornton Melon]

12 hours ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

DWAYNE DUBOIS
9 years 45-51-0
---staff, Vidor--
2013    Hardin-Jefferson     8-5-0 T
2014    Hardin-Jefferson  11-2-0 R
2015    Bridge City                7-4-0 T
2016    Bridge City                9-3-0
2017    Bridge City                1-7-0
2018    Hardin-Jefferson     2-8-0
2019    Hardin-Jefferson     1-9-0 F
2020    Hardin-Jefferson     5-5-0 T
2021    Hardin-Jefferson     1-8-0

ALVIN CREDEUR
7 years 34-39-0
2006    Lumberton       4-6-0
2007    Lumberton    11-2-0 C
2008    Lumberton      8-2-0 C
2009    Lumberton      5-5-0
2010    Lumberton      5-5-0
2011    Lumberton      1-9-0
2012    Lumberton     0-10-0

 

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These would be perfect hires for Mathews. If he hired a good coach that had instant success with this program using a different offensive strategy ,then that would prove his philosophy was wrong all along. He knows what he's doing plus all the homeboy assistants get to keep their jobs. 

    He was below .500 doing it his way. It's time for him let it go man, he had his chance and it didn't work.

 

 

 

 

[oldschool2]

13 hours ago, Separation Scientist said:

So is there any correlation to athleticism???  

I ask because people whine about "money always wins" which is totally false, but never seem to acknowledge that many "poor" school have overwhelming athleticism. Isn't that a huge, huge advantage? Look at North Shore, one of the most impoverished communities around, they won 3 of the last 4 6A Championships. 

Your example should compare a 5'10", 185lb "rich kid" who runs a 5.3 with a 15in. vertical, to a 6'1" 190lb "poor kid" who runs a 4.5 with a 22in. vertical. Who would you start? 

        

In a way, it does correlate to athleticism.  Because players with access to money, state of the art facilities, personal trainers, proper nutrition, adequate sleep habits,  etc. will likely be in better physical shape than a kid without access to those.  It's not the RULE, but it definitely makes it more likely. 

By the way, and I've been clear about this, it's referring to a LIKLIHOOD.  There are always and will always be exceptions.  I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. By the way.. which years are you talking about? 20-21 was Austin Westlake and Katy.  21-22 was Northshore and Austin Westlake.  Include the 5A champions... Aledo, Guyer, Katy Paetow... you not familiar with the areas?  Even if you're correct about 3 out of 4 including this year, look at the last 10 years.  Or 15.. list the football state champions for 4A/5A/6A and tell me the percentage of those communities that have an average household income higher than the state average.  Not to mention the state champs in all other sports.  If you don't see that communities with money have a higher likelihood of success in athletics (not to be confused with athleticism), then your eyes are closed. 

[CardinalBacker]

50 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

In a way, it does correlate to athleticism.  Because players with access to money, state of the art facilities, personal trainers, proper nutrition, adequate sleep habits,  etc. will likely be in better physical shape than a kid without access to those.  It's not the RULE, but it definitely makes it more likely. 

By the way, and I've been clear about this, it's referring to a LIKLIHOOD.  There are always and will always be exceptions.  I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. By the way.. which years are you talking about? 20-21 was Austin Westlake and Katy.  21-22 was Northshore and Austin Westlake.  Include the 5A champions... Aledo, Guyer, Katy Paetow... you not familiar with the areas?  Even if you're correct about 3 out of 4 including this year, look at the last 10 years.  Or 15.. list the football state champions for 4A/5A/6A and tell me the percentage of those communities that have an average household income higher than the state average.  Not to mention the state champs in all other sports.  If you don't see that communities with money have a higher likelihood of success in athletics (not to be confused with athleticism), then your eyes are closed. 

Why don't you use some local examples.  Say.... WOS and Newton.  Certainly there must have been some affluent school districts in 3A and 4A during those years, right?

People use the "facilities" argument as an excuse. I mean, now that you mention it, Newton claimed that they lost that one year because they had to ride Yellow Dogs to Dallas and the competition (Lord, the Competition) got to ride charters. 

 

[AthleticSupporter - Jock]

16 hours ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Credeur coached Lumberton back in 2007.

He hasn't coached at Lumberton since 2015 I believe.

I might be remembering wrong but I believe Credeur's last football season in Lumberton was indeed 2012.  2013 & 2014 were Larry Haynes.  Babin started as HC/AD for the 2015 season.

[oldschool2]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Why don't you use some local examples.  Say.... WOS and Newton.  Certainly there must have been some affluent school districts in 3A and 4A during those years, right?

People use the "facilities" argument as an excuse. I mean, now that you mention it, Newton claimed that they lost that one year because they had to ride Yellow Dogs to Dallas and the competition (Lord, the Competition) got to ride charters. 

 

Even though money can have less impact the smaller the classification... because one or a handful of stud players can change an entire season.. Let's see who knocked out Newton and WOS going back to 2010

10-11 Newton- C.H. Yoe
11-12 Newton- Crockett
12-13 Newton- C.H. Yoe
13-14 Newton- White Oak
14-15 Newton- Waskom
15-16 Newton- Franklin
16-17 Newton- Arp
17-18 Newton- State Title over Gunter
18-19 Newton- State Title over Canadian
19-20 Newton- Daingerfield
20-21 Newton- Omaha Paul Pewitt
21-22 Newton- Waskom
22-23 Newton- Harmony

10-11 WOS- Brookshire-Royal
11-12 WOS- Coldspring
12-13 WOS- Navasota
13-14 WOS- Carthage
14-15 WOS- Gilmer
15-16 WOS- State Title over Celina
16-17 WOS- State Title over Sweetwater
17-18 WOS- Pleasant Grove
18-19 WOS- Silsbee
19-20 WOS- Silsbee
20-21 WOS- China Spring
21-22 WOS- China Spring
22-23 WOS- Bellville

You really wanna compare facilities of many of these schools that made them exit?  Not all.. but many..

[AggiesAreWe]

1 hour ago, AthleticSupporter - Jock said:

I might be remembering wrong but I believe Credeur's last football season in Lumberton was indeed 2012.  2013 & 2014 were Larry Haynes.  Babin started as HC/AD for the 2015 season.

Correct.

Couldn't remember when Haynes coached those two years.

[setxathlete14]

15 hours ago, Mr. Thornton Melon said:

These would be perfect hires for Mathews. If he hired a good coach that had instant success with this program using a different offensive strategy ,then that would prove his philosophy was wrong all along. He knows what he's doing plus all the homeboy assistants get to keep their jobs. 

    He was below .500 doing it his way. It's time for him let it go man, he had his chance and it didn't work.

 

 

 

 

Offensive strategy does not dictate success 

[Separation Scientist]

6 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

In a way, it does correlate to athleticism.  Because players with access to money, state of the art facilities, personal trainers, proper nutrition, adequate sleep habits,  etc. will likely be in better physical shape than a kid without access to those.  It's not the RULE, but it definitely makes it more likely. 

By the way, and I've been clear about this, it's referring to a LIKLIHOOD.  There are always and will always be exceptions.  I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. By the way.. which years are you talking about? 20-21 was Austin Westlake and Katy.  21-22 was Northshore and Austin Westlake.  Include the 5A champions... Aledo, Guyer, Katy Paetow... you not familiar with the areas?  Even if you're correct about 3 out of 4 including this year, look at the last 10 years.  Or 15.. list the football state champions for 4A/5A/6A and tell me the percentage of those communities that have an average household income higher than the state average.  Not to mention the state champs in all other sports.  If you don't see that communities with money have a higher likelihood of success in athletics (not to be confused with athleticism), then your eyes are closed. 

So what exactly are you proposing to help the "poor" teams loaded with D1 athletes, so it will be "fair enough" for them to play affluent schools? 

What exactly do you think should be done? Endlessly whining about finacial disparaties is not accomplishing anything. Give us specific examples what you think should be done to help out the poor North Shores, WOS's, and Newtons of the world. Do you suggest the UIL should provide cash payments to help out the "poor" 4.5 40 kids? Should the UIL assign a nutritionist to each "poor" athlete? Maybe a state of the art NFL type training facility be built at every "poor" school? Tell us. 

[oldschool2]

56 minutes ago, Separation Scientist said:

So what exactly are you proposing to help the "poor" teams loaded with D1 athletes, so it will be "fair enough" for them to play affluent schools? 

What exactly do you think should be done? Endlessly whining about finacial disparaties is not accomplishing anything. Give us specific examples what you think should be done to help out the poor North Shores, WOS's, and Newtons of the world. Do you suggest the UIL should provide cash payments to help out the "poor" 4.5 40 kids? Should the UIL assign a nutritionist to each "poor" athlete? Maybe a state of the art NFL type training facility be built at every "poor" school? Tell us. 

I'm not proposing anything.  I don't know that anything can be done, actually.  In fact, one could argue that it was all of the things I mentioned that money buys that made it possible for kids without the God given athleticism to be competitive.  It just got out of control in that direction.

Suggestions?  I don't have any.  There will always be haves and have nots unfortunately. 

[Separation Scientist]

That's exactly right. ^^^ 

Life, and sports are not fair. Some are blessed with speed, some are not. Some have size, some don't. Some have new facilities, some don't. Some have extra money, some don't. Some have better families, some don't. Some have higher IQ's, some don't. It goes on and on.

That's just the way the world ticks. I don't see the point of beating the issue to death. Its general knowledge differences exist across the board. The best thing any player and school can do is take responsibility, maximize whatever you can, and live with the result.     

[Mr. Thornton Melon]

   NO WAY Crueder is even being considered. He got booted from the OC position because he screwed up the offense soOoo bad and it still hasn't recovered. He did some good things at Lumberton for a couple years but he had some great players with Hannah , Beard & company. After those players graduated he was never successful again.

  DuBois had two good years in Vidor but he had some great players (EX: Montana Quirante & Company). He also had a few good years at HJ but he had some really good players and never emulated the success after they graduated. 

 Mathews having a losing record and recommending other coaches with losing records is preposterous  He's sabotaging the process if this is the case. He shouldn't have a say.

[Mr. Thornton Melon]

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Is the VISD website the only place this job is posted ? If so, then it's definitely an inside hire.

Does anyone know if it's  posted on the thsca.com ? 

[AHUDDLESTON]

It is not on THSCA.

[Bobcat1]

Is there a list of applicants anywhere? 

[setxathlete14]

4 minutes ago, Bobcat1 said:

Is there a list of applicants anywhere? 

Creaduer/dubois lol

[Mr. Thornton Melon]

3 hours ago, AHUDDLESTON said:

It is not on THSCA.

They aren't seeking an outsider then. LOL