What makes a good vs. great coach?

[BADSANTA]

Talent 

[Reagan]

5 hours ago, BADSANTA said:

Talent 

Beaumont has the talent.  So, what's the problem there?

[Coach_Izzy]

18 hours ago, Reagan said:

Beaumont has the talent.  So, what's the problem there?

Admin & coaching…BISD is 20 years behind when it comes to knowing how to run a successful athletic program…I seen BU’s weight room yesterday and it’s literally the exact same as when I attended over 10 years ago! That lets you know everything you need to know…also it’s coaches that’s been in BISD forever and have never coached anywhere else so they have no clue how to run a successful program. So the offensive/defensive schemes are rudimentary and they don’t know any better because at the end of the day “you don’t know what you don’t know”

[Reagan]

7 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

Admin & coaching…BISD is 20 years behind when it comes to knowing how to run a successful athletic program…I seen BU’s weight room yesterday and it’s literally the exact same as when I attended over 10 years ago! That lets you know everything you need to know…also it’s coaches that’s been in BISD forever and have never coached anywhere else so they have no clue how to run a successful program. So the offensive/defensive schemes are rudimentary and they don’t know any better because at the end of the day “you don’t know what you don’t know”

You are right.  The hiring process there is atrocious!  

[Reagan]

From the Texas History website:  "Gordon Wood, G.A. Moore, Jr. and Tim Buchanan each copped state football trophies in four separate decades."  If it's not about coaching then how did these coaches always get the championship-type kids for 4 decades?!  Were they that lucky and everybody else was that unlucky?!  

[Reagan]

ABILENE “Eagles”

1919                   3-1-2        111-  27        Prince E. (Pete) Shotwell
1920      C           9-1-0        322-  77        Prince E. (Pete) Shotwell
1921      C--       10-1-0        425-  85        Prince E. (Pete) Shotwell
1922      C           8-1-0        269-  19        Prince E. (Pete) Shotwell
1923      C--       12-0-0        573-    7        Prince E. (Pete) Shotwell
1924                  7-2-0         212-  29        Lee Jones
1925                  6-2-1         143-  28        Lee Jones
1926                  7-2-0         241-  19        Lee Jones
1927      C--      11-1-0         492-  49        Dewey Mahyew
1928      C--      12-0-1         410-  71        Dewey Mayhew
1929                  8-2-0         169-  77        Dewey Mayhew
1930                  7-2-2         208-  70        Dewey Mayhew
1931      C--      11-0-1         300-  32        Dewey Mayhew

1953                  7-2-1         300-  78        Charles (Chuck) Moser
1954      C--      12-1-0         420-  84        Charles (Chuck) Moser
1955      C--      13-0-0         501-  90        Charles (Chuck) Moser
1956      C--      14-0-0         496-  94        Charles (Chuck) Moser

Came across another school that coaches won Titles wintin 7 years.  

[Reagan]

AUSTIN REAGAN/NORTHEAST

 “Raiders”

YEAR                 W-L-T      PTS-OPP        COACH

1965                   5-4-0        174-  66         Travis Raven
1966                   6-3-1        200-104         Travis Raven
1967      C--       14-0-0        435-  95         Travis Raven
1968      C--       15-0-0        394-  51         Travis Raven
1969                   8-2-0        283-  51         Travis Raven
1970      C--       14-1-0        496-116         Travis Raven

Wow, look what else I found.  Another Title within 7 years.  What is amazing is how far you can scroll down through those pages and not find a team that has a Title.   Every now and then you find one.   But, you can go to the teams with Elite coaches and you see Titles galore.  Amazing isn't it?!

[dme1111]

Having a name that doesn't start with a B and end in a W.  😂

[WOSdrummer99]

I'd like to pull the elite coach conversation back to this topic.

And to pick up on Sabine Pass vs Mart...

Mart winning % before the 1st elite coach was 54%. Sabine Pass current at 24% all time. Big difference. 

So if someone like recently retired Buchanan went to Sabine Pass. I suspect they could be winning DCs and making runs in the playoffs within the 7 year time frame. But I'm not convinced they ever be on the same level as an established program such as Mart.

Lets look at another local 2A d2. How bout Hull-Daisetta? 58% alltime win percentage. Won a championship in 79. Have NOT won 10 games in a season since. And as recently as 2019 finished 2-7. That's not much success at all, IMO. I've also considered the location. Think they could get some kids from surrounding areas like Liberty and West Hardin.

How much of a difference would championship coach make there?

[WOSdrummer99]

HD not good enough?

Deweyville? 43% all time. DCs in the 80s. Recently won 1st playoff game. Close enough to LCM, Newton, WOS???

How bout Lovelady if Buchanan came in? All the wins they've had recently but can't get to that next level. Nothing against the current coach. Just another example of a program needing that one extra thing to push them to the top. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

On 2/25/2023 at 1:44 AM, dme1111 said:

Having a name that doesn't start with a B and end in a W.  😂

That's cold-blooded 😂

[purpleeagle]

On 2/26/2023 at 1:55 PM, Mr. Buddy Garrity said:

That's cold-blooded 😂

Edited. 

You know better. 

[house]

My opinion is that Carthage's success is a combination of factors.  Reynolds was a good coach but not a great coach.  The athletes were there but he didn't have the ability/desire to do what it takes to do what Surratt has done.  Surratt has said he wanted to go to Carthage because he had seen there was talent there when he was coaching in Texarkana.  So you have the athletes that are normally coming through a small east Texas town and now you get a coach that is very intelligent and is obsessive/compulsive with his work.  Throw in a highly competitive personality and you have a combination of factors that give you some pretty good odds.  His intelligence and knowledge of sports has allowed him to come up with some strategies that have proved to be ahead of the time.  He obviously has the personality to work with people, especially kids.  It's just kinda the perfect storm for the opposition.  Take a highly intelligent person that is a perfectionist and you will usually see some success.  

[89Falcon]

Edited. 

[Reagan]

4 hours ago, house said:

My opinion is that Carthage's success is a combination of factors.  Reynolds was a good coach but not a great coach.  The athletes were there but he didn't have the ability/desire to do what it takes to do what Surratt has done.  Surratt has said he wanted to go to Carthage because he had seen there was talent there when he was coaching in Texarkana.  So you have the athletes that are normally coming through a small east Texas town and now you get a coach that is very intelligent and is obsessive/compulsive with his work.  Throw in a highly competitive personality and you have a combination of factors that give you some pretty good odds.  His intelligence and knowledge of sports has allowed him to come up with some strategies that have proved to be ahead of the time.  He obviously has the personality to work with people, especially kids.  It's just kinda the perfect storm for the opposition.  Take a highly intelligent person that is a perfectionist and you will usually see some success.  

You are right.  The kids have always been there.  It took a special coach to come in and "develop" the kids that were there into championship caliber athletes.  Something, like you alluded to, other coaches couldn't do.  From the start in 1924, there were 20 coaches before Surratt and NONE could do what he did.  But to be fair to the other coaches, there are only, at any one time, about 10% of the coaches that could.  Carthage is lucky to have one!  Surratt has earned his status!

[89Falcon]

22 minutes ago, Reagan said:

You are right.  The kids have always been there.  It took a special coach to come in and "develop" the kids that were there into championship caliber athletes.  Something, like you alluded to, other coaches couldn't do.  From the start in 1924, there were 20 coaches before Surratt and NONE could do what he did.  But to be fair to the other coaches, there are only, at any one time, about 10% of the coaches that could.  Carthage is lucky to have one!  Surratt has earned his status!

Dont forget, there were less championships available to be won for the majority of the 20 coaches prior. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

11 hours ago, purpleeagle said:

Edited. 

You know better. 

?? 

[Separation Scientist]

It would be amazing to take a historical look at the statewide landscape if all kids, throughout all the years, stayed and played where they should instead of moving around like free agents. I think jaws would drop. 

[Gametime5]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:41 PM, WOSdrummer99 said:

I'd like to pull the elite coach conversation back to this topic.

And to pick up on Sabine Pass vs Mart...

Mart winning % before the 1st elite coach was 54%. Sabine Pass current at 24% all time. Big difference. 

So if someone like recently retired Buchanan went to Sabine Pass. I suspect they could be winning DCs and making runs in the playoffs within the 7 year time frame. But I'm not convinced they ever be on the same level as an established program such as Mart.

Lets look at another local 2A d2. How bout Hull-Daisetta? 58% alltime win percentage. Won a championship in 79. Have NOT won 10 games in a season since. And as recently as 2019 finished 2-7. That's not much success at all, IMO. I've also considered the location. Think they could get some kids from surrounding areas like Liberty and West Hardin.

How much of a difference would championship coach make there?

This is an accurate assessment. I agree.