Law Trivia and Discussions

[tvc184]

You are coming upon a red light at a wide intersection (5-9 lanes) such as crossing Gulfway Dr in Port Arthur or College St in Beaumont. The light turns yellow but you think you can make it.

You get completely into the first lane you are crossing by the light turns red so you cross the last few lanes such the light red.

A violation? 

[LumRaiderFan]

44 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

You are coming upon a red light at a wide intersection (5-9 lanes) such as crossing Gulfway Dr in Port Arthur or College St in Beaumont. The light turns yellow but you think you can make it.

You get completely into the first lane you are crossing by the light turns red so you cross the last few lanes such the light red.

A violation? 

Seems to me it would be.

[rupert3]

I think on a intersection that big you should anticipate the light changing but if you are over the line when turns yellow then it is not a violation. won't do anygood to stop and block traffic.

Just pray and go I guess.  There is usually time for the yellow to stay on before the other direction gets geen.

[SmashMouth]

3 hours ago, tvc184 said:

You are coming upon a red light at a wide intersection (5-9 lanes) such as crossing Gulfway Dr in Port Arthur or College St in Beaumont. The light turns yellow but you think you can make it.

You get completely into the first lane you are crossing by the light turns red so you cross the last few lanes such the light red.

A violation? 

I would say "no violation" if you already entered the intersection under yellow.

[LumRaiderFan]

Reads to me like it turned yellow and they "think" they can make it before entering the intersection.

[tvc184]

The law reads that if you face a solid red light (not flashing), you must stop before a clearly marked stop line or if no line, before the crosswalk.

Meaning, once you have passed the stop line or crosswalk, you have to proceed. You can’t stop before a line that you have already passed as required by the law.

Sec. 544.007  
(d)  An operator of a vehicle facing only a steady
red signal shall stop at a clearly marked stop line.  In the absence of a stop line, the operator shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection.  A vehicle that is not turning shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown.

So what about a vehicle that now has the green light but you were already in the intersection before your light turned red and their light turned green?  Or what if you were in the intersection for several seconds but traffic up ahead in your lane stopped, forcing you to remain stranded in the intersection? In either case, if the vehicle with the now green light proceeds and hits you, who is at fault?

 That is also covered in the same section.

Section 544.007  
(b) An operator of a vehicle facing a circular green signal may proceed straight or turn right or left unless a sign prohibits the turn. The operator shall, while the signal is exhibited:  
(1) yield the right-of-way to other vehicles lawfully in the intersection when the signal is exhibited; and

(2) stop and yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully in the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk.

So the person with the now green light must yield the right of way to vehicles that were lawfully already in the intersection when the light turned green. You can also see that if pedestrians were already in the crosswalk, they have the right away. In fact that goes for all crosswalks even in the middle of a city block. A crosswalk is essentially a stop sign but requires no action on the driver unless there is a pedestrian already in the crosswalk. I have personally heard people make comments like, if I’m driving down the road and there’s no stop sign or red light, I don’t have to stop for pedestrians. Welllllll….. yes you do. To do otherwise might result in a Manslaughter or Aggravated Assault charge.

Which leads to another question. What is a crosswalk?

[SmashMouth]

21 hours ago, tvc184 said:

The law reads that if you face a solid red light (not flashing), you must stop before a clearly marked stop line or if no line, before the crosswalk.

Meaning, once you have passed the stop line or crosswalk, you have to proceed. You can’t stop before a line that you have already passed as required by the law.

Sec. 544.007  
(d)  An operator of a vehicle facing only a steady
red signal shall stop at a clearly marked stop line.  In the absence of a stop line, the operator shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection.  A vehicle that is not turning shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown.

So what about a vehicle that now has the green light but you were already in the intersection before your light turned red and their light turned green?  Or what if you were in the intersection for several seconds but traffic up ahead in your lane stopped, forcing you to remain stranded in the intersection? In either case, if the vehicle with the now green light proceeds and hits you, who is at fault?

 That is also covered in the same section.

Section 544.007  
(b) An operator of a vehicle facing a circular green signal may proceed straight or turn right or left unless a sign prohibits the turn. The operator shall, while the signal is exhibited:  
(1) yield the right-of-way to other vehicles lawfully in the intersection when the signal is exhibited; and

(2) stop and yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully in the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk.

So the person with the now green light must yield the right of way to vehicles that were lawfully already in the intersection when the light turned green. You can also see that if pedestrians were already in the crosswalk, they have the right away. In fact that goes for all crosswalks even in the middle of a city block. A crosswalk is essentially a stop sign but requires no action on the driver unless there is a pedestrian already in the crosswalk. I have personally heard people make comments like, if I’m driving down the road and there’s no stop sign or red light, I don’t have to stop for pedestrians. Welllllll….. yes you do. To do otherwise might result in a Manslaughter or Aggravated Assault charge.

Which leads to another question. What is a crosswalk?

Marked or unmarked? I believe there are several types.

I know there are marked ones like you see at an an intersection with lines marking the area to cross. There are some like I have seen near MD Anderson in the Houston Medical district that are in the middle of a street (not relegated to an intersection in other words) and then there are some that may be unmarked, but they are still crosswalks nevertheless. I'm sure there may be others, but I know the ones above exist.

[tvc184]

3 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

Marked or unmarked? I believe there are several types………..  

and then there are some that may be unmarked, but they are still crosswalks nevertheless. I'm sure there may be others, but I know the ones above exist.

There are two types of crosswalks, marked (A) and unmarked (B). Unmarked crosswalks are extended lines from sidewalks. So if a sidewalk ends at the street AND then continues on the opposite side of the street, that is an unmarked crosswalk. 

Or as it is described in the Transportation Code:

(2) "Crosswalk" means:
(A) the portion of a roadway, including an intersection, designated as a pedestrian crossing by surface markings, including lines; or

(B) the portion of a roadway at an intersection that is within the connections of the lateral lines of the sidewalks on opposite sides of the highway measured from the curbs or, in the absence of curbs, from the edges of the traversable roadway.

So if a driver is coming upon an intersection with a stop sign AND there are sidewalks on both sides of the road, that is the same as a painted crosswalk and the law requires a person to stop before the sidewalk.

If a driver is at an intersection and has, for example, a left turn green arrow, the driver can lawfully turn left. The driver however has to yield right of way to any pedestrian in a crosswalk or any oncoming traffic from the opposite direction. The green turning arrow allows a person to lawfully turn but that person must give way to any vehicle or pedestrian.

[tvc184]

Your brother who is 30 years old, has never been arrested, was not dishonorably discharged from the military, etc., wants a new gun. He has absolutely nothing that will stop him from legally purchasing a firearm.

Academy is running a sale on the gun he wants and it ends today but he will not get off of work in time. You are also of age to buy the firearm and he asks if you can buy it for him and he will pay you back tomorrow.

Basically, both of you can legally possess and buy firearms.

Can you lawfully purchased the firearm for him?

[rupert3]

I think yes if you properly transfer it to him after you buy it and registered it yourself.

Not sure though

[LumRaiderFan]

I would say yes, the transfer to the brother would basically be a private sale.

[tvc184]

5 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

I would say yes, the transfer to the brother would basically be a private sale.

6 hours ago, rupert3 said:

I think yes if you properly transfer it to him after you buy it and registered it yourself.

Not sure though

It would be a felony under federal law to purchase the firearm from a licensed dealer if the intent of the purchase was for another person.

It doesn’t matter if the other person could legally purchase the firearm.

It is legal to purchase a firearm with intent to give it as an actual gift to another person who can legally possess the firearm. That means no money changed hands.

So if you want to buy your brother a firearm as a gift because it’s his birthday, Christmas or just because you like him, it is legal. If your brother says buy it for me, because I don’t have time, it is a crime.

The reason is on Form 4473 that you must complete to buy a firearm at a federally licensed dealer such a good at a sporting good store, it asks if you are purchasing the firearm for another person. If you are buying a firearm as a gift, you are the actual purchaser unlike if money changes hands. It is yours until you intend to give it away as a bonafide gift.

[rupert3]

Wow I guess I assumed he would sell it to his brother and transfer it legally through the system.

[LumRaiderFan]

46 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

It would be a felony under federal law to purchase the firearm from a licensed dealer if the intent of the purchase was for another person.

It doesn’t matter if the other person could legally purchase the firearm.

It is legal to purchase a firearm with intent to give it as an actual gift to another person who can legally possess the firearm. That means no money changed hands.

So if you want to buy your brother a firearm as a gift because it’s his birthday, Christmas or just because you like him, it is legal. If your brother says buy it for me, because I don’t have time, it is a crime.

The reason is on Form 4473 that you must complete to buy a firearm at a federally licensed dealer such a good at a sporting good store, it asks if you are purchasing the firearm for another person. If you are buying a firearm as a gift, you are the actual purchaser unlike if money changes hands. It is yours until you intend to give it away as a bonafide gift.

I would gift it to my brother and then collect that money he owed me, lol.

[tvc184]

4 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

I would gift it to my brother and then collect that money he owed me, lol.

Absolutely no problem.

If you don’t get caught….  

[rupert3]

8 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

I would gift it to my brother and then collect that money he owed me, lol.

I guess go to jail for it lol

[LumRaiderFan]

8 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

Absolutely no problem.

If you don’t get caught….  

I wouldn’t 

[rupert3]

Tvc184 you have taken me to school these last few weeks Thank you

[LumRaiderFan]

8 minutes ago, rupert3 said:

I guess go to jail for it lol

Doubtful, lol.

[tvc184]

5 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Doubtful, lol.

I am just stating the law. 🙃

If you speed and get away with it, then you got away with it. If you commit a felony and get away with it, then you got away with it.

Here is what at times comes back to bite people in the butt. Playing my favorite game, what if…… 

An officer pulls a guy over for speeding and while talking to him at the window noticed that he has a holster handgun. The officer comments that it is a nice gun and he has one just like it.

So Mr. Friendly Driver says, “Yeah, my brother just bought it for me yesterday. I was stuck at work and they had a sale so he went down and bought it for me”.

You are now on camera admitting that your brother committed a felony.

There was actually a case that went all the way up to the US Supreme Court. It wasn’t a traffic stop but like a traffic stop, was an accidental discovery. The police found a gun in a guy’s possession which was legal at the time because he was not a convicted felon. Unfortunately for him, he had the sales receipt and it had the original purchaser’s name on it and it was his nephew. The nephew was a former police officer and could get guns lawfully at a discount. When the nephew heard that his uncle wanted a new gun, offered to get it at his police discount. Both men could legally purchase a firearm at a licensed dealer. The police were able to track the sale to the former police officer and he was convicted of a felony. The nephew appealed to the Supreme Court and said, but we both can lawfully possess firearms. The Supreme Court said…. Oh well.

So the Nephew is now a convicted felon. 

People love to talk, tell all of their friends what is happening, what they did and more times than not, getting on social media and proclaiming what a great day they had, and what they did. 

On a side note, social media is one of the great tools of modern law-enforcement.  Many times the police don’t need a reason to question somebody, they can just get on their social media page.

… or a routine traffic stop.

For the most part, I could care less what people do.  

But if they get caught……
 

[LumRaiderFan]

4 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

I am just stating the law. 🙃

If you speed and get away with it, then you got away with it. If you commit a felony and get away with it, then you got away with it.

Here is what at times comes back to bite people in the butt. Playing my favorite game, what if…… 

An officer pulls a guy over for speeding and while talking to him at the window noticed that he has a holster handgun. The officer comments that it is a nice gun and he has one just like it.

So Mr. Friendly Driver says, “Yeah, my brother just bought it for me yesterday. I was stuck at work and they had a sale so he went down and bought it for me”.

You are now on camera admitting that your brother committed a felony.

There was actually a case that went all the way up to the US Supreme Court. It wasn’t a traffic stop but like a traffic stop, was an accidental discovery. The police found a gun in a guy’s possession which was legal at the time because he was not a convicted felon. Unfortunately for him, he had the sales receipt and it had the original purchaser’s name on it and it was his nephew. The nephew was a former police officer and could get guns lawfully at a discount. When the nephew heard that his uncle wanted a new gun, offered to get it at his police discount. Both men could legally purchase a firearm at a licensed dealer. The police were able to track the sale to the former police officer and he was convicted of a felony. The nephew appealed to the Supreme Court and said, but we both can lawfully possess firearms. The Supreme Court said…. Oh well.

So the Nephew is now a convicted felon. 

People love to talk, tell all of their friends what is happening, what they did and more times than not, getting on social media and proclaiming what a great day they had, and what they did. 

On a side note, social media is one of the great tools of modern law-enforcement.  Many times the police don’t need a reason to question somebody, they can just get on their social media page.

… or a routine traffic stop.

For the most part, I could care less what people do.  

But if they get caught……
 

I’m not arguing that it’s the law, but that this happens to me is ridiculous.  Maybe put more effort into going after the REAL bad guys.  At some point you would think someone would snap that this was simply a mistake where nobody got hurt.

Laws, to me, are designed to catch bad guys.  When it’s realized that a good guy got caught up in it by accident, seems like that could be considered.

 

[tvc184]

16 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

I’m not arguing that it’s the law, but that this happens to me is ridiculous.  Maybe put more effort into going after the REAL bad guys.  At some point you would think someone would snap that this was simply a mistake where nobody got hurt.

Laws, to me, are designed to catch bad guys.  When it’s realized that a good guy got caught up in it by accident, seems like that could be considered.

 

An accident is considered. Ignorance of the law is not.

That is why we have culpable mental states such as intent.

On Form 4473 so as not to trick people, in Bold print it states:   
Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring any firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.

There are plenty of laws that I don’t agree with. I started this thread to inform people of laws or legal concepts that they may not be aware of. People can make their own decisions.
 

 

 

[LumRaiderFan]

6 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

An accident is considered. Ignorance of the law is not.

That is why we have culpable mental states such as intent.

On Form 4473 so as not to trick people, in Bold print it states:   
Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring any firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.

There are plenty of laws that I don’t agree with. I started this thread to inform people of laws or legal concepts that they may not be aware of. People can make their own decisions.
 

 

 

Don’t get me wrong, this thread is great, and very informative.  

Maybe I should just read and educate myself on the actual law rather than interject my opinion on it. 🙂

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, rupert3 said:

Tvc184 you have taken me to school these last few weeks Thank you

Thanks. I could be wrong but I always assume that laws that affect most people in day-to-day lives are interesting. In the many times I have spoken to the public or taught classes, there are always more questions than I have time to answer.

 A few weeks ago I helped my former partner teach a class at the Citizen Police Academy over active shooters. Naturally other questions come up besides the main topic and probably half of the time we spent discussing the thousand other law-enforcement issues.

[tvc184]

21 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Don’t get me wrong, this thread is great, and very informative.  

Maybe I should just read and educate myself on the actual law rather than interject my opinion on it. 🙂

I would rather see opinions.