5 Killed in Cleveland

[tvc184]

5 hours ago, rupert3 said:

If they find him, can't they change the charges?

A little more in depth…

Arrest: An arrest is authorized if probable cause exists that  a crime was committed. The fact that a person has been arrested gives no inference of guilt. An arrest doesn’t charge a person with a crime. It simply means that PC existed at that moment allowing a person to be taken into custody to be identified and allowed to post bail to see IF criminal charges should go forward. 

Police: Cannot file charges for a crime in court. Only a state or federal attorney can file charges in a court. There is a common phrase that the police filed charges against a person but the police can’t file charges in court. The police can file paperwork or turn an investigation over to the state attorney/DA. Basically an officer says, I have looked into a situation, recovered some evidence, have spoken to witnesses and this is what I found. The DA will review the case to determine if criminal charges should go forward. It can be after an arrest or with no arrest.

Charges: The DA, after reviewing a case, can accept or deny charges. Again this can be after an arrest or with no arrest. In cases of a misdemeanor in Texas, it is the DA’s discretion or opinion if charges should be filed in court. If the DA determines the a case should go to trial, the DA files the “complaint” or charge in court. The complaint is the actual piece of paper or the charging document for a trial. It will be like, In the name of the State of Texas, John Smith is charged with committing theft on or about July 15, 2021 in Jefferson County, Texas. That is filing charges in court.

In Texas I think a Class C misdemeanor complaint is called a “complaint”, A or B misdemeanor complaint is called an “information” and a felony complaint is called an “indictment”. 

For an indictment in Texas it must come from a grand jury. I think about half of the states use the grand jury system. Others use the discretion of the DA (like Texas does in misdemeanors only) to file felony criminal charges with no independent review.

So….

The police can arrest with or without a warrant. While any crime can be arrested with a warrant, the authority to arrest without a warrant has limitations on time frame, location and in limited situations and crimes.

A PC arrest only authorizes the police to bring a person into custody to be identified and to be allowed to post bail in a promise to return for any future court proceeding or trial.

An arrest with PC as far as filing charges or determining what charges to file is meaningless. The DA can reject or change any charges after an arrest. 

Only the DA (or United States Attorney for federal charges) can file the charging documents to get a case to trial. The police can turn over an investigation to the DA/USA for review after an arrest or with no arrest but can’t themselves file charges in court. The phrase that the police are “filing charges” only describes the turning over of an investigation to the DA/USA for review. The police in effect say, “DA, look what we found”. The DA will determine if a case goes any further and what crime(s) (if any) should be actually charged regardless of what an arrest was for. The DA will then file the appropriate complaint in the appropriate court if charges are to go forward.

How many social media or even news media comments have we seen like, the police filed charges and brought this guy to trial. No, the DA at his/her sole discretion did that. 

Clear as mud?

[rupert3]

I've seen and heard a lot of that.

I guess police can present charges but can't bring charges.

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, rupert3 said:

I've seen and heard a lot of that.

I guess police can present charges but can't bring charges.

Yeah, pretty much. They present investigations to the attorneys who decide what to do.

The police:   
Take photographs/videos. 
Collect physical evidence such as drugs, stolen property, etc.
Interview witnesses/suspects. 
Take fingerprints/dna/etc.  
Etc.

Then hand the case file over to the DA… who also has their own police department. 
 

[rupert3]

THEY CAUGHT HIM  Somewhere in Cut and Shoot

[WOSdrummer99]

25 minutes ago, rupert3 said:

THEY CAUGHT HIM  Somewhere in Cut and Shoot

Were you right? Lol

 

It's odd they caught him in Cut & Shoot of all places. Followed the wife to a family members house.

[rupert3]

Kinda Ironic it was on Sleepy Hollow.  San Jacinto county sherrif says it's still not capital murder yet

[tvc184]

41 minutes ago, rupert3 said:

Kinda Ironic it was on Sleepy Hollow.  San Jacinto county sherrif says it's still not capital murder yet

Oh yes, it’s Capital Murder.

They might not have filed the paperwork yet and give to the grand jury but it is definitely Capital Murder. That is not even debatable unless they have the wrong guy.

In fact, he committed Capital Murder three different ways. Capital Murder is Murder with specific circumstances. In this case, Capital Murder special circumstances are l:

1. Killing any person under 10 years of ago.

2. Killing more than 1 person in a single incident. 

3. Killing a person while committing a Burglary.

If any of those situations apply, it is Capital Murder. Maybe the sheriff means that they just haven’t brought the formal charges yet. 

[baddog]

Never thought he’d be taken alive. 

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, baddog said:

Never thought he’d be taken alive. 

I think that is a normal  belief. 

I kind of thought he might be taken alive. He is a no morals low life who was intoxicated.

He was not a mass murderer or at least, as far as we think of them. This was not a plan to involve a school or a former place of business because he was mad at the world and this was his final justice.

We all probably know people with a short temper but this guy’s short temper mixed with intoxication and with his practically no morals whatsoever, caused a terrible scene. Once he was off his high and no longer the big man on campus, he not only surrendered but was cowering under dirty clothes. I was leaning more toward him hiding in some wooded area or swamp and had finally had enough misery and just gave up. 

He was a powerful man with a gun in his hand and against women and  children.

 I was maybe 70/30 that he would surrender. He thought he was bad when angry but he wasn’t ready for suicide. 

[baddog]

1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

I think that is a normal  belief. 

I kind of thought he might be taken alive. He is a no morals low life who was intoxicated.

He was not a mass murderer or at least, as far as we think of them. This was not a plan to involve a school or a former place of business because he was mad at the world and this was his final justice.

We all probably know people with a short temper but this guy’s short temper mixed with intoxication and with his practically no morals whatsoever, caused a terrible scene. Once he was off his high and no longer the big man on campus, he not only surrendered but was cowering under dirty clothes. I was leaning more toward him hiding in some wooded area or swamp and had finally had enough misery and just gave up. 

He was a powerful man with a gun in his hand and against women and  children.

 I was maybe 70/30 that he would surrender. He thought he was bad when angry but he wasn’t ready for suicide. 

Good points well taken. I think all murderers are cowards, especially those that would even harm children, much less shoot them in the head. I leave the alcohol out of the equation because it has no bearing on what the law can do to them….never an excuse. Could it have made him feel 10’ tall and bullet-proof? Of course. I am of the mentality that mass murderers are among us waiting on a”trigger”. It can be an instant trigger like road rage (not mass murder but a trigger nonetheless) or one such as this. They can also have time to plan it after being triggered (school shootings and the like). I always feel that these people would rather die than surrender to police. Many do commit suicide, either on themselves or police assisted. 
You are right, he is a coward and deserves to die. My only wish is that the appeals process didn’t last 20 years. This hinders deterrence. 

[tvc184]

23 minutes ago, baddog said:

Good points well taken. I think all murderers are cowards, especially those that would even harm children, much less shoot them in the head. I leave the alcohol out of the equation because it has no bearing on what the law can do to them….never an excuse. Could it have made him feel 10’ tall and bullet-proof? Of course. I am of the mentality that mass murderers are among us waiting on a”trigger”. It can be an instant trigger like road rage (not mass murder but a trigger nonetheless) or one such as this. They can also have time to plan it after being triggered (school shootings and the like). I always feel that these people would rather die than surrender to police. Many do commit suicide, either on themselves or police assisted. 
You are right, he is a coward and deserves to die. My only wish is that the appeals process didn’t last 20 years. This hinders deterrence. 

Actually (just a point of law) alcohol does legally play a factor in criminal law. Texas law says that the use of alcohol cannot be used as a defense to prosecution however it can be brought up as a mitigating factor in punishment.

In this case the guy should be charged with Capital Murder which only has two punishments. Life without parole or execution. A lawyer is legally allowed to bring up intoxication to plea for life in prison.

 But that is just the law. I agree with your assessment.

I just have a hard time getting away from opinions without bring up law. 🤣

[baddog]

49 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

Actually (just a point of law) alcohol does legally play a factor in criminal law. Texas law says that the use of alcohol cannot be used as a defense to prosecution however it can be brought up as a mitigating factor in punishment.

In this case the guy should be charged with Capital Murder which only has two punishments. Life without parole or execution. A lawyer is legally allowed to bring up intoxication to plea for life in prison.

 But that is just the law. I agree with your assessment.

I just have a hard time getting away from opinions without bring up law. 🤣

I would think there is something wrong with you if you didn’t bring up the law. lol

 I’m not an Iran fan by any means, but….. There was a taxi driver in Iran years ago who was going around raping women. He was finally caught, convicted and sentenced to death. The next day (I think), they strung him up from a cherry picker for everyone to see. He didn’t have 20 years to appeal and I would bet there aren’t many rapists in Iran. Heck, today we release rapists on their own recognizance. 

I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be an appeals process, but 20 years? Of course this probably wouldn’t deter these sick triggered people, but if murderers knew they wouldn’t last even one more year, I could see it being a deterrent. 

[CardinalBacker]

8 hours ago, baddog said:

Good points well taken. I think all murderers are cowards, especially those that would even harm children, much less shoot them in the head. I leave the alcohol out of the equation because it has no bearing on what the law can do to them….never an excuse. Could it have made him feel 10’ tall and bullet-proof? Of course. I am of the mentality that mass murderers are among us waiting on a”trigger”. It can be an instant trigger like road rage (not mass murder but a trigger nonetheless) or one such as this. They can also have time to plan it after being triggered (school shootings and the like). I always feel that these people would rather die than surrender to police. Many do commit suicide, either on themselves or police assisted. 
You are right, he is a coward and deserves to die. My only wish is that the appeals process didn’t last 20 years. This hinders deterrence. 

I read someplace that "alcohol doesn't make you do anything... it just lets you."  It was already there, the booze just allowed you to let it out.  

[baddog]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

I read someplace that "alcohol doesn't make you do anything... it just lets you."  It was already there, the booze just allowed you to let it out.  

Exactly

[rupert3]

Am I right in saying that if he confesses the death penalty is off the table.

Also his live in girl and a friend are in jail on 1 mil bod each, Aiding and abetting.

Leads to my next question.  How do bonds work and who is stupid enough to post whatever.

Edited May 3, 2023 by rupert3
added

[tvc184]

10 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I read someplace that "alcohol doesn't make you do anything... it just lets you."  It was already there, the booze just allowed you to let it out.  

I read somewhere about 35 years ago (way before Google) that the FBI, believe from studies some thing like 90% of major crimes were committed by someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol. It did not mean that they were plastered but maybe a guy about to commit a robbery might have two or three beers to take the edge off. Consumed courage….

[rupert3]

Oropeza is being held on a $7.5 million bond. As for the other two people charged in the case, 

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According to ABC 13

[tvc184]

27 minutes ago, rupert3 said:

Oropeza is being held on a $7.5 million bond. As for the other two people charged in the case, 

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According to ABC 13

For $750,000 to bonding company you might be able to get him out.  

[rupert3]

16 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

For $750,000 to bonding company you might be able to get him out.  

I wouldn't touch that with a 19 ft pole.