ALCS- Lone Star Series

[bullets13]

11 minutes ago, BS Wildcats said:

2017, it’s time to get over it!   They’ve been to six straight ALCS’s since.  I guess you are one of those that can’t move on.  And it’s been proven the Astros weren’t the only ones!

I'm completely over it.  It's the reason they're not my "second" team anymore, but I don't care anything about it at this point, and didn't care much to begin with.  It wasn't like they stole a world series from my team.  And they're undeniably a great team who's been on a great run.  I just think the revisionist history that some (most) Astros fans like to use is funny.  Your post is a perfect example, where the "classless" Garcia should learn a thing from Altuve, who in the eyes of many Houston fans, has never done anything wrong.  I respect the crap out of his game, and he's a good guy, but there's too big of a mark by his name for you guys to keep lifting him up as the symbol of all that is good and virtuous with the game.  

[bullets13]

12 hours ago, spidersal said:

Hard to win when you struggle hitting with men on base. Poor at bats with bases loaded by Dubon and the pinch hitter Singletary

I question Baker on starting Valdez who has been miserable his last 3 starts and if I was GM Montero and Stanek would be gone as soon as off season begins. Those 2 have been bad all season

Tucker and Peña have had an awful series at the plate

I thought it might go 7 games

that cuts both ways.  The astros have hit signficantly better than the rangers with runners on base this series, and their bullpen has been a significant factor in 2 of the 3 astros wins.  Seager and Semien have been awful with RISP.  but that's just part of playoff baseball.  Throughout any season guys are going to have 10 game stretches where they aren't that good.  

[BS Wildcats]

7 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I'm completely over it.  It's the reason they're not my "second" team anymore, but I don't care anything about it at this point, and didn't care much to begin with.  It wasn't like they stole a world series from my team.  And they're undeniably a great team who's been on a great run.  I just think the revisionist history that some (most) Astros fans like to use is funny.  Your post is a perfect example, where the "classless" Garcia should learn a thing from Altuve, who in the eyes of many Houston fans, has never done anything wrong.  I respect the crap out of his game, and he's a good guy, but there's too big of a mark by his name for you guys to keep lifting him up as the symbol of all that is good and virtuous with the game.  

Don’t think every team out there is not pushing the limits when it comes to gaining an upper hand, no matter the sport.  As far as the trash can banging goes, I was not a fan of it, but it’s done.  But there are those that will say everyone of their playoff wins are still tainted.  

[wo-s#1]

53 minutes ago, Ty Cobb said:

I don't have a good feeling about game 7.  Just don't think Scherzer can go deep enough in the game to give the RANGERS a chance.  Going to have to score a lot to get the W.  Go RANGERS!!!

Agree we should have seen scherzer in some middle inning action,him starting Monday kinda threw the entire staff out of whack a little..hopefully he’s good tonight but if not he will be gone early! It’s all hands on deck.

[baddog]

1 hour ago, BS Wildcats said:

2017, it’s time to get over it!   They’ve been to six straight ALCS’s since.  I guess you are one of those that can’t move on.  And it’s been proven the Astros weren’t the only ones!

Kinda proves they didn’t need to steal signs like others do from 2nd base. I knew this would surface sooner or later. 

[bullets13]

36 minutes ago, BS Wildcats said:

Don’t think every team out there is not pushing the limits when it comes to gaining an upper hand, no matter the sport.  As far as the trash can banging goes, I was not a fan of it, but it’s done.  But there are those that will say everyone of their playoff wins are still tainted.  

I suppose a loose argument could be made that success leads to more success, so if their first success was tainted, then future success is attached to that.  I don't really agree with that with the stros.  they've kept this going mostly on the shoulders of drafting well and developing players through their farm system, and have kept it up despite losing big name players along the way.  

[bullets13]

20 minutes ago, baddog said:

Kinda proves they didn’t need to steal signs like others do from 2nd base. I knew this would surface sooner or later. 

 the only reason I brought it up is because I keep hearing all the astros fans talking about how classless Garcia is for celebrating a home run, while in the same breath acting like Altuve is the flawless messiah of baseball.  In that instance, it's worth noting that, despite Altuve being a great player and a great guy, he's done far worse than Garcia has ever done.  

[BS Wildcats]

13 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

 the only reason I brought it up is because I keep hearing all the astros talking about how classless Garcia is for celebrating a home run, while in the same breath acting like Altuve is the flawless messiah of baseball.  In that instance, it's worth noting that, despite Altuve being a great player and a great guy, he's done far worse than Garcia has ever done.  

In regards to your last statement, how can you possibly know that?

[BS Wildcats]

1 hour ago, bullets13 said:

I'm completely over it.  It's the reason they're not my "second" team anymore, but I don't care anything about it at this point, and didn't care much to begin with.  It wasn't like they stole a world series from my team.  And they're undeniably a great team who's been on a great run.  I just think the revisionist history that some (most) Astros fans like to use is funny.  Your post is a perfect example, where the "classless" Garcia should learn a thing from Altuve, who in the eyes of many Houston fans, has never done anything wrong.  I respect the crap out of his game, and he's a good guy, but there's too big of a mark by his name for you guys to keep lifting him up as the symbol of all that is good and virtuous with the game.  

How can you be a fan of Rangers given the steroid junkies that have played for them, if you can’t still be an Astros fan with the atrocities they committed?

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, BS Wildcats said:

In regards to your last statement, how can you possibly know that?

Is there some proof out there that Garcia has cheated?  Even any discussion of it being a possibility?  Because if not, this is a ridiculous question designed to once again try and minimize the seriousness of Altuve's (and the astros as a whole) mistakes.  

[bullets13]

7 minutes ago, BS Wildcats said:

How can you be a fan of Rangers given the steroid junkies that have played for them, if you can’t still be an Astros fan with the atrocities they committed?

Every team in baseball had steroid junkies, including the astros.  During that era it was essentially a level playing field, because EVERY team had multiple players juicing.  It's called "The Steroid Era" for a reason.  If it came out that the rangers were all using steroids, and only a couple of other players in the league were, and they won a world series, I would look at things differently.   Likewise, if all 30 teams were going to extreme measures in 2017 to steal and relay signs (not your typical runner on 2nd situation), I would look at the whole situation differently. 

[baddog]

20 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

 the only reason I brought it up is because I keep hearing all the astros fans talking about how classless Garcia is for celebrating a home run, while in the same breath acting like Altuve is the flawless messiah of baseball.  In that instance, it's worth noting that, despite Altuve being a great player and a great guy, he's done far worse than Garcia has ever done.  

I’m not going to defend what they did as being right. I’m saying it didn’t help them win a WS. We won our road games even back then, especially in Boston……where they were doing the same thing. Always remember every pitcher in every game, after every inning has to essentially be frisked. Hey, I wonder why they do that?

 You’re always going to have people who have acceptable levels of cheating and simply call it part of the game. 

[bullets13]

27 minutes ago, baddog said:

I’m not going to defend what they did as being right. I’m saying it didn’t help them win a WS. We won our road games even back then, especially in Boston……where they were doing the same thing. Always remember every pitcher in every game, after every inning has to essentially be frisked. Hey, I wonder why they do that?

 You’re always going to have people who have acceptable levels of cheating and simply call it part of the game. 

Simple logistics says this is a false assertion.  In the 2017 playoffs the astros...  went 2-0 at Minute Maid against Boston, 1-1 away.  4-0 at Minute Maid against NY, 0-3 at Yankee stadium, and 2-1 at Minute Maid against the Dodgers, 2-2 at Dodger stadium.  8-1 at home, 3-6 on the road.  Despite the fact that was still a very good team without the cheating, and that they were good on the road, the astros won two series 4-3.    All of this to say that if the trashcan effected the outcome of even one home game against new york, it's the only reason they advanced to the world series, and if it affected the outcome of even one home game against the dodgers, it's the only reason they won the world series.  Given that the astros won four 1-run game and a 2-run game at home during the 2017 playoffs, I'd say its basically an impossibility that the trashcan didn't change the result of a single game, which is the only statistical way that it would be possible that the cheating "didn't help them win a world series." 

 

Disclaimer: I had to go look these numbers up.  I'm not so hellbent on hating the astros that I have this stuff memorized. 

[baddog]

25 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

Simple logistics says this is a false assertion.  In the 2017 playoffs the astros...  went 2-0 at Minute Maid against Boston, 1-1 away.  4-0 at Minute Maid against NY, 0-3 at Yankee stadium, and 2-1 at Minute Maid against the Dodgers, 2-2 at Dodger stadium.  8-1 at home, 3-6 on the road.  Despite the fact that was still a very good team without the cheating, and that they were good on the road, the astros won two series 4-3.    All of this to say that if the trashcan effected the outcome of even one home game against new york, it's the only reason they advanced to the world series, and if it affected the outcome of even one home game against the dodgers, it's the only reason they won the world series.  Given that the astros won four 1-run game and a 2-run game at home during the 2017 playoffs, I'd say its basically an impossibility that the trashcan didn't change the result of a single game, which is the only statistical way that it would be possible that the cheating "didn't help them win a world series." 

 

Disclaimer: I had to go look these numbers up.  I'm not so hellbent on hating the astros that I have this stuff memorized. 

Did you look up the numbers since then? That one line was all you gleaned from my post? Even if the sign is stolen from 2nd base, don’t you still have to hit the ball? I try not to let hate enter into any sporting event. 
As a fan, what do you think that did to me? I wasn’t happy at all. Six more ALCS appearances since then tells me they didn’t need it to win. I guess if you let hate steer you, you’ll always see it your way. 
Good luck tonight

[BEARCPA]

19 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

Simple logistics says this is a false assertion.  In the 2017 playoffs the astros...  went 2-0 at Minute Maid against Boston, 1-1 away.  4-0 at Minute Maid against NY, 0-3 at Yankee stadium, and 2-1 at Minute Maid against the Dodgers, 2-2 at Dodger stadium.  8-1 at home, 3-6 on the road.  Despite the fact that was still a very good team without the cheating, and that they were good on the road, the astros won two series 4-3.    All of this to say that if the trashcan effected the outcome of even one home game against new york, it's the only reason they advanced to the world series, and if it affected the outcome of even one home game against the dodgers, it's the only reason they won the world series.  Given that the astros won four 1-run game and a 2-run game at home during the 2017 playoffs, I'd say its basically an impossibility that the trashcan didn't change the result of a single game, which is the only statistical way that it would be possible that the cheating "didn't help them win a world series." 

 

Disclaimer: I had to go look these numbers up.  I'm not so hellbent on hating the astros that I have this stuff memorized. 

The PBS documentary "The Astros Edge" that came out a few weeks ago does a pretty good job of disproving allegations that the sign-stealing system was used in the playoffs. Its also pretty well-known that Altuve didn't participate in the scandal. 

No excuse for the cheating they actually did though.

[BEARCPA]

2 hours ago, bullets13 said:

these types of comments kinda crack me up, and I've seen a lot of them.  Garcia pimped the biggest homerun of his life, Altuve was complicit in one of the bigger cheating scandals in the history of baseball.  I guess it's all relative to who you root for.  I didn't like Garcia's antics, but come on.  Altuve does play the game hard, and he's clutch, and seems like a genuinely good guy, but that said, there was nothing classy about what went on in 2017-2018.

I'm with you on pimping dingers. Baseball is a kid's game. Guys should be able to have fun after crushing a ball without hurting people's feelings.

[BEARCPA]

I told my wife that I'm sitting on her side of the couch tonight. Gotta do my part to fix the bad juju.

[bullets13]

40 minutes ago, BEARCPA said:

The PBS documentary "The Astros Edge" that came out a few weeks ago does a pretty good job of disproving allegations that the sign-stealing system was used in the playoffs. Its also pretty well-known that Altuve didn't participate in the scandal. 

No excuse for the cheating they actually did though.

He knew about it.  He won games because of it.  He got rbis because of it, and he scored runs because of it.  He won an AL MVP because of it.  And from everything I've read and seen, he didn't cheat "as much."  But even if he never got a single trash can text message, he benefitted too much from it, and was complicit through his silence.  As for the documentary, I haven't watched it, and doubt I will, but every other source online still says that they did in fact use cameras throughout 2017, the 2017 post season, and part of 2018.  

[bullets13]

53 minutes ago, baddog said:

Did you look up the numbers since then? That one line was all you gleaned from my post? Even if the sign is stolen from 2nd base, don’t you still have to hit the ball? I try not to let hate enter into any sporting event. 
As a fan, what do you think that did to me? I wasn’t happy at all. Six more ALCS appearances since then tells me they didn’t need it to win. I guess if you let hate steer you, you’ll always see it your way. 
Good luck tonight

I looked up the numbers as soon as you made that statement, as that one line was basically the first line of your statement. it certainly stood out.  At this point I don't care much about the astros one way or another beyond being in the Rangers' way, but I do get tired of their fans pretending that it wasn't all that big of a deal what they did, which is a constant.  Or pretending that the cheating didn't make a difference in an attempt to legitimize the championship, which is exactly what you did there when you said that the cheating didn't change the outcome of that season (also a constant among many stros fans).  I'll always see it the same way that everyone who doesn't cheer for the astros sees it, and you'll always see it the way that only an astros fan can see it.  It is what it is.  None of this takes away from the fact that astros have had a damn good team for the better part of a decade, and that they've been good without cheating for the majority of it.  It's been a heck of a series.  Hopefully my boys come out on top.

[baddog]

1 hour ago, bullets13 said:

I looked up the numbers as soon as you made that statement, as that one line was basically the first line of your statement. it certainly stood out.  At this point I don't care much about the astros one way or another beyond being in the Rangers' way, but I do get tired of their fans pretending that it wasn't all that big of a deal what they did, which is a constant.  Or pretending that the cheating didn't make a difference in an attempt to legitimize the championship, which is exactly what you did there when you said that the cheating didn't change the outcome of that season (also a constant among many stros fans).  I'll always see it the same way that everyone who doesn't cheer for the astros sees it, and you'll always see it the way that only an astros fan can see it.  It is what it is.  None of this takes away from the fact that astros have had a damn good team for the better part of a decade, and that they've been good without cheating for the majority of it.  It's been a heck of a series.  Hopefully my boys come out on top.

Sorry Bullets, I’m not trying to legitimize anything. What I am saying, or trying to say is this…… Call it legitimizing or whatever, it really doesn’t matter to me. The fact is that cheating is in every sport. Whether or not people want to own up to it makes no difference to me. The fact that every pitcher is frisked after every inning tells me that something is rampant. Managers or catchers approach the mound and cover their mouths with their hand or glove….why? Catchers change their pitch signals when a runner is on 2nd…..why? Pine tar rules…..corked bats……steroids….did I leave any out? All are forms of cheating and most are overlooked or forgotten. To say that all players were using steroids was an attempt to legitimize. How about if everyone was using cameras in the outfield. Would that smooth things a bit? The one defining moment in all of this is the Astros used high tech “2nd base” signal theft and got caught. Everyone loved Sosa’s HRs until he broke a corked bat and got caught. 

[JWB]

Either way Texans get to see a 'Texas" team play in the World Series! 

[AggiesAreWe]

2 hours ago, BEARCPA said:

I told my wife that I'm sitting on her side of the couch tonight. Gotta do my part to fix the bad juju.

I'm kinda in a quandary as to what to do tonight.

Watch from my recliner?

Listen while sitting outside?

Something new?

[bullets13]

27 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

I'm kinda in a quandary as to what to do tonight.

Watch from my recliner?

Listen while sitting outside?

Something new?

lets go to the casino

[BEARCPA]

1 hour ago, baddog said:

Sorry Bullets, I’m not trying to legitimize anything. What I am saying, or trying to say is this…… Call it legitimizing or whatever, it really doesn’t matter to me. The fact is that cheating is in every sport. Whether or not people want to own up to it makes no difference to me. The fact that every pitcher is frisked after every inning tells me that something is rampant. Managers or catchers approach the mound and cover their mouths with their hand or glove….why? Catchers change their pitch signals when a runner is on 2nd…..why? Pine tar rules…..corked bats……steroids….did I leave any out? All are forms of cheating and most are overlooked or forgotten. To say that all players were using steroids was an attempt to legitimize. How about if everyone was using cameras in the outfield. Would that smooth things a bit? The one defining moment in all of this is the Astros used high tech “2nd base” signal theft and got caught. Everyone loved Sosa’s HRs until he broke a corked bat and got caught. 

People seem to forget that the guy pitching for Arlington tonight got suspended for 10 games this season for being a cheater. Its easy to overlook things when it doesn't fit your narrative.

[BEARCPA]

45 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

I'm kinda in a quandary as to what to do tonight.

Watch from my recliner?

Listen while sitting outside?

Something new?

I distinctly remember sitting on my wife's side of the couch when the Astros beat Philly in Game 6 last year, so hopefully the good vibes remain in that spot. Do whatever you did for Game 6 last year.