A Tale of Two Cities

[aki1994]

13 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

Well we’ll see if coaching matters over talent this weekend.

Shouldn't you be making a million dollars a minute somewhere selling vacuum cleaners instead of telling us how non athletic PNG is? 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, 89Falcon said:

Did I make a post anywhere that states “the only thing needed to win is talent”? 
 

Or is this another example of SETX forum misquote and incomprehension?

For clarification: Talent > Coaching. No coach can win without players capable of executing the plays. Not even debatable 

It’s very debatable, because I don’t care how athletically gifted a team is…without coaching, they’ll be going home by the third round. 
 

It’s a toss-up as to which is more valuable when both are equally necessary to achieve success. 
 

Like a hall of fame coach said “you can’t win the Kentucky Derby with a mule,” but when he left they’ve made a first round exit two years in a row. 

[SmashMouth]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Science teaches - to have a fire you need three things… fuel, air, and ignition source. 
 

I’d argue that to have a TOP TIER football program, you need athletes, coaching, and community support. Sometimes you end up with a really talented bunch of kids or a really exceptional coach and it’s the last thing that you needed… but not “the biggest reason for our success.”  You can look at the recent local rises and falls of historic programs and take your own conclusions, but the fact remains… you’ve got to have all three to be consistently successful. 
 

Did Coach Rowe at Bellville finally learn how to coach over the summer? No, he’s got a good group of kids.  PNG has shut a lot of mouths that said “you’ll never see another SC from mid-county-they don’t have the athletes.” WOS is an example of what a great coach (or a not-so-good coach) can accomplish with a group of good athletes. 
 

It takes all three (talent, coaching, and support) with the first two being almost equally important and the last being a minority third. 

I have said similarly the same thing for years. Coaching, kids and community (which includes the administration). Gotta have all three. 

[Coach_Izzy]

I think y’all are changing the narrative…of course coaching matters but we’re talking about the MAIN ingredient it takes to win. Why do yall think college football programs spend the most money on recruiting?

 

Let’s look at all the teams who made the state title game in 6A…what do they all have in common? Plenty of Division 1 talent…again 90% of having a successful football program is TALENT! Jimmy & Joes> X&O’s

Barber’s Hill hired the coach from Allen who won multiple state champions & what happened? Did he forget how to coach when he got there? Katy lost in the second round for the first time in forever…did Gary Joseph forget how to coach? I can go on & on, again only people who’ve never coached will tell you coaching matters over talent lol 

 

At NS we ran a 4-3 Cover 0 scheme…which allowed us to put 7 in the box and sit our DB’s on an island with no help over the top! Being a secondary coach it helped that I had 5 Division 1 players in the secondary including guys like 5 star Denver Harris & 5 Star Devin Sanchez at corner. 
 

Do yall think NS would be able to run defense like that without talent? Now imagine if we had a bunch of slow a** average joes out there at DB.

[89Falcon]

1 minute ago, Coach_Izzy said:

I think y’all are changing the narrative of course coaching matters but we’re talking about the MAIN ingredient it takes to win.

 

Let’s look at all the teams who made the state title game in 6A…what do they all have in common? Plenty of Division 1 talent…again 90% of having a successful football program is TALENT! Jimmy & Joes> X&O’s

Barber’s Hill hired the coach from Allen who won multiple state champions & what happened? Did he forget how to coach when he got there? Katy lost in the second round for the first time in forever…did Gary Joseph forget how to coach? I can go on & on, again only people who’ve never coached will tell you coaching matters over talent lol 

They will never get it. 

[Rez]

16 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

Well we’ll see if coaching matters over talent this weekend.

Did you watch the game last year? SOC outcoached PNG in the second half. That game was more than winnable by the players. SOC adjusted earlier than we did, and that made the difference. 

[Rez]

35 minutes ago, Coach_Izzy said:

I think y’all are changing the narrative…of course coaching matters but we’re talking about the MAIN ingredient it takes to win. Why do yall think college football programs spend the most money on recruiting?

 

Let’s look at all the teams who made the state title game in 6A…what do they all have in common? Plenty of Division 1 talent…again 90% of having a successful football program is TALENT! Jimmy & Joes> X&O’s

Barber’s Hill hired the coach from Allen who won multiple state champions & what happened? Did he forget how to coach when he got there? Katy lost in the second round for the first time in forever…did Gary Joseph forget how to coach? I can go on & on, again only people who’ve never coached will tell you coaching matters over talent lol 

 

At NS we ran a 4-3 Cover 0 scheme…which allowed us to put 7 in the box and sit our DB’s on an island with no help over the top! Being a secondary coach it helped that I had 5 Division 1 players in the secondary including guys like 5 star Denver Harris & 5 Star Devin Sanchez at corner. 
 

Do yall think NS would be able to run defense like that without talent? Now imagine if we had a bunch of slow a** average joes out there at DB.

No one has changed the narrative. You’re saying the most important element is the players, others are saying the most important element is the coaching. 

[aki1994]

Pop Quiz

Who has the highest rated D-1 recruit in this game? 

[2wedge]

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[CCRed]

Let’s look at PAM. In my opinion they should be the NorthShore of 5A. They have talent all over the field. That talent can’t seem to equate to a deep playoff run. If PAM had the right coach, they would dominate.  This is an example of where Coaching matters more than talent. You can have all the talent in the world, but with no guidance, you aren’t going to make those deep runs. 

[2wedge]

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[2wedge]

18 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

Well we’ll see if coaching matters over talent this weekend.

So your argument is that Jason Todd's coaching is not up to Jeff Joseph's level? That's nonsense. Todd can run with the best of them in the state and then some. Of course you have to have talent, but coaching is what makes talent successful. Lots of talented teams are going home early every year because of subpar coaching. Not too many great coaches are making early exits because they lack supreme talent. Of course, there are also those coaches who coach 5 division 1 defensive backs and even that level of talent isn't enough to ensure they can stay on the sidelines......

[Coach_Izzy]

2 hours ago, CCRed said:

Let’s look at PAM. In my opinion they should be the NorthShore of 5A. They have talent all over the field. That talent can’t seem to equate to a deep playoff run. If PAM had the right coach, they would dominate.  This is an example of where Coaching matters more than talent. You can have all the talent in the world, but with no guidance, you aren’t going to make those deep runs. 

If PA didn’t have the talent that they have you wouldn’t even be mentioning them with the likes of NS. If had the right coach with no talent PA would still get their butts kicked only diff is it’d be a lot worse.

[Coach_Izzy]

1 hour ago, Rez Ipsa said:

Did you watch the game last year? SOC outcoached PNG in the second half. That game was more than winnable by the players. SOC adjusted earlier than we did, and that made the difference. 

I watched the game & it came down to Jimmy’s & Joes…only adjustment SOC made was to start getting the ball to their “talented” WR’s on the outside which PNG had no answer for. SOC is where it is today cause Jason Todd took the job & immediately recruited “talent” there. It ain’t rocket science, look at DV before Samples showed up they were terrible. Once he got there he brought in “talent” now they’ve been to 5/6 state title games. I guess you think DV just start having some magical coaching when Samples showed up huh? 

[CCRed]

4 minutes ago, Coach_Izzy said:

If PA didn’t have the talent that they have you wouldn’t even be mentioning them. The right coach without talent would get you nowhere.

And the opposite is the same. They have the talent, not the right coach, and go no where. 
PNG has the right coach, minimal talent, and where are they ?

You being a coach are speaking from a very biased opinion. 

[Coach_Izzy]

26 minutes ago, 2wedge said:

So your argument is that Jason Todd's coaching is not up to Jeff Joseph's level? That's nonsense. Todd can run with the best of them in the state and then some. Of course you have to have talent, but coaching is what makes talent successful. Lots of talented teams are going home early every year because of subpar coaching. Not too many great coaches are making early exits because they lack supreme talent. Of course, there are also those coaches who coach 5 division 1 defensive backs and even that level of talent isn't enough to ensure they can stay on the sidelines......

1. I never said this I'm simply speaking on what’s the MOST IMPORTANT ingredient to success. Does coaching matter absolutely but not more than talent.

2. This isn’t true the most talented teams in the state (at least at the 6A level) are all playing for state titles.

3. I actually left coaching on my own will, I could easily be coaching in my 4th state title game this weekend if I wanted to be. Nice try though bud.

[Coach_Izzy]

10 minutes ago, CCRed said:

And the opposite is the same. They have the talent, not the right coach, and go no where. 
PNG has the right coach, minimal talent, and where are they ?

You being a coach are speaking from a very biased opinion. 

Not true…if PAM didn’t have athletes it wouldn’t matter who the coach was. Same with PNG, they have talent.

Also I’m not biased at all I’ve just been around many great coaches & the recipe to any successful coach is the same TALENT. 

[Rez]

21 minutes ago, Coach_Izzy said:

I watched the game & it came down to Jimmy’s & Joes…only adjustment SOC made was to start getting the ball to their “talented” WR’s on the outside which PNG had no answer for. SOC is where it is today cause Jason Todd took the job & immediately recruited “talent” there. It ain’t rocket science, look at DV before Samples showed up they were terrible. Once he got there he brought in “talent” now they’ve been to 5/6 state title games. I guess you think DV just start having some magical coaching when Samples showed up huh? 

That’s not the only adjustment. It’s a little shocking that you’re a coach and you only noticed one adjustment. Seriously. They also moved a guy over in the interior to take away the run, thus forcing us to throw. And, PNG could have responded to their passing game sooner by putting Shea Adams in the secondary to take away their height advantage (we eventually did, but it was too late by then). And, png could have modified its offensive play calling to drag out drives longer, move the chains and keep themselves out of trouble. By no means did SOC’s talent (which was far superior to PNGs) put that game out of reach. PNG was outcoached and outplayed in the second half. 
 

I’m not disagreeing that talent matters. I’m disagreeing with drawing a hard line. Coaches develop talent, bring in talent, use talent, and train talent. It’s no mystery that the best coaches seem to also have a lot of talent. A good coach gets more talent out of average players, and helps players discover abilities they didn’t even know they have. I’d rather face a super talented team with a terrible coach than a more “normal” team with a top tier coach. Napoleon is credited with saying something along the lines of “I’d fear a thousand sheep lead by a lion more than a thousand lions led by a sheep.” 
 

 

[Coach_Izzy]

30 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

That’s not the only adjustment. It’s a little shocking that you’re a coach and you only noticed one adjustment. Seriously. They also moved a guy over in the interior to take away the run, thus forcing us to throw. And, PNG could have responded to their passing game sooner by putting Shea Adams in the secondary to take away their height advantage (we eventually did, but it was too late by then). And, png could have modified its offensive play calling to drag out drives longer, move the chains and keep themselves out of trouble. By no means did SOC’s talent (which was far superior to PNGs) put that game out of reach. PNG was outcoached and outplayed in the second half. 
 

I’m not disagreeing that talent matters. I’m disagreeing with drawing a hard line. Coaches develop talent, bring in talent, use talent, and train talent. It’s no mystery that the best coaches seem to also have a lot of talent. A good coach gets more talent out of average players, and helps players discover abilities they didn’t even know they have. I’d rather face a super talented team with a terrible coach than a more “normal” team with a top tier coach. Napoleon is credited with saying something along the lines of “I’d fear a thousand sheep lead by a lion more than a thousand lions led by a sheep.” 
 

 

Re-read this & tell me what’s the common denominator. Lol

[Rez]

21 minutes ago, Coach_Izzy said:

Re-read this & tell me what’s the common denominator. Lol

I’m saying the best coaches bring in and generate more talent, and get more talent out of their players. I’m not saying they just happen to have more talent. They create talent. 
 

And, seriously, what is your implication here? You brag about being a super good coach because a freshman cited your name on a radio broadcast and because you were the official “ball slapper together guy” in North Shore’s warmups. Are you simultaneously bragging about being a coach while saying coaching isn’t even all that important?

[Coach_Izzy]

1 minute ago, Rez Ipsa said:

I’m saying the best coaches bring in and generate more talent, and get more talent out of their players. I’m not saying they just happen to have more talent. They create talent. 
 

And, seriously, what is your implication here? You brag about being a super good coach because a freshman cited your name on a radio broadcast and because you were the official “ball slapper together guy” in North Shore’s warmups. Are you simultaneously bragging about being a coach while saying coaching isn’t even all that important?

How can you create talent as a coach? I’m really interested to know…

& please show me where I said any of this? Either you can’t read or you just making up things as you go

[Rez]

32 minutes ago, Coach_Izzy said:

How can you create talent as a coach? I’m really interested to know…

& please show me where I said any of this? Either you can’t read or you just making up things as you go

In defense of your coaching credentials months ago, you posted a video of an underclassmen kid mentioning you as one of his coaches, and a video of you helping warmups as a north shore assistant coach. Why would I make that up? You should be proud of your career as the “ball slap together guy.” You’re the reason North Shore was so good. Except for the fact that coaching doesn’t matter, so I guess you had nothing to do with it. 

[Austin1985]

2 hours ago, CCRed said:

Let’s look at PAM. In my opinion they should be the NorthShore of 5A. They have talent all over the field. That talent can’t seem to equate to a deep playoff run. If PAM had the right coach, they would dominate.  This is an example of where Coaching matters more than talent. You can have all the talent in the world, but with no guidance, you aren’t going to make those deep runs. 

Please don't.  All of our 1st or 3rd round losses have been to either a regional finalist, champ, state finalist, or state champ.  We are not the same and our path is affected by the 1st round district and or region.  Dist 7 5A was 3-1 against this district and were the last district standing to get out of the region.  5A Div2 reg 3 has an easier path.  Apples and Oranges when you look at the data

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

1 minute ago, Austin1985 said:

Please don't.  All of our 1st or 3rd round losses have been to either a regional finalist, champ, state finalist, or state champ.  We are not the same and our path is affected by the 1st round district and or region.  Dist 7 5A was 3-1 against this district and were the last district standing to get out of the region.  5A Div2 reg 3 has an easier path.  Apples and Oranges when you look at the data

I ran outta likes. +1!

[Coach_Izzy]

38 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

In defense of your coaching credentials months ago, you posted a video of an underclassmen kid mentioning you as one of his coaches, and a video of you helping warmups as a north shore assistant coach. Why would I make that up? You should be proud of your career as the “ball slap together guy.” You’re the reason North Shore was so good. Except for the fact that coaching doesn’t matter, so I guess you had nothing to do with it. 

I actually posted that to prove that I was indeed a varsity coach contrary to what some on here believe…never came on here & said how good of a coach I was. No need to do that I have 3 state championship rings to validate me. So yeah you did indeed make that up, just like you made up me saying coaching doesn’t matter lol