Reagan Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 So, Nederland has the same type athlete available. One can't be so silly to think otherwise. Like, what, there's a wall between the two cities and the good kids can only stay on one side? It's easy to complain. So, what has been Nederland's problem over these years and what is the answers? And on the other hand, during these years, why has PNG been so successful? Quote
Mr. Thornton Melon Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Reagan said: So, Nederland has the same type athlete available. One can't be so silly to think otherwise. Like, what, there's a wall between the two cities and the good kids can only stay on one side? It's easy to complain. So, what has been Nederland's problem over these years and what is the answers? And on the other hand, during these years, why has PNG been so successful? Coaching Quote
AggiesAreWe Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Reagan said: So, Nederland has the same type athlete available. One can't be so silly to think otherwise. Like, what, there's a wall between the two cities and the good kids can only stay on one side? It's easy to complain. So, what has been Nederland's problem over these years and what is the answers? And on the other hand, during these years, why has PNG been so successful? Nederland doesn't have a Reagan to point them in the right direction. CS. and Bobcat1 2 Quote
Reagan Posted December 19, 2023 Author Report Posted December 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said: Nederland doesn't have a Reagan to point them in the right direction. Well, somewhat true, but somewhat not true: They just didn't listen! (Grin) Quote
Guitar Man Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 This game is more than just coaching. It is a culture. Yes good coaching is important, but it isn't everything. It takes a football culture to be good at high school football. It starts with a foundation and identity, typically built in a weight room. That translates to kids improving physically and buying in to that identity. It also takes a community to support the team and coaches to guide the team and facilitate that growth. PN-G has built an identity that is forged in their weightroom. There is an ENORMOUS level of support for the team from the community. They have an awesome coaching staff that guides them in the right direction. Nederland lacks that identity. If you ask me what makes a true difference in HS football. It is a combination of a lot of things. It takes sacrifice by all. Again, i'm not saying coaching is not important, but I would argue the other obvious things that are very different about PN-G and Nederland. Recently, the culture and identity is just not the same. bulldawg64 1 Quote
wbfan Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 Nederland has the same problem with politics that Beaumont does. Homeboy hires and consulting rather than winning games with the best players and coaches. Reagan and bulldawg64 2 Quote
Reagan Posted December 19, 2023 Author Report Posted December 19, 2023 43 minutes ago, Guitar Man said: This game is more than just coaching. It is a culture. Yes good coaching is important, but it isn't everything. It takes a football culture to be good at high school football. It starts with a foundation and identity, typically built in a weight room. That translates to kids improving physically and buying in to that identity. It also takes a community to support the team and coaches to guide the team and facilitate that growth. PN-G has built an identity that is forged in their weightroom. There is an ENORMOUS level of support for the team from the community. They have an awesome coaching staff that guides them in the right direction. Nederland lacks that identity. If you ask me what makes a true difference in HS football. It is a combination of a lot of things. It takes sacrifice by all. Again, i'm not saying coaching is not important, but I would argue the other obvious things that are very different about PN-G and Nederland. Recently, the culture and identity is just not the same. Let PNG look as bad as Nederland look and see what that culture looks likes. Good coaching brings about good culture. If Nederland had Joseph and PNG had Nederland’s coach we’d be talking about how bad the PNG culture is. Rez 1 Quote
FrodoNDN Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 24 minutes ago, Reagan said: Let PNG look as bad as Nederland look and see what that culture looks likes. Good coaching brings about good culture. If Nederland had Joseph and PNG had Nederland’s coach we’d be talking about how bad the PNG culture is. Honestly, my years 84 to 86 we were horrible, but still had good crowds. Maybe not like when your winning but good crowds Quote
prepballfan Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 Since 1975 Nederland has made 4 or 5 quarterfinals and 1 semifinal. They have been a good football team. The last few years they have been down. The truth is they have been close at least 4 or 5 times during that time. I was at the game at Rice I think it was when they lost the chance to go to State to Smithson Valley 38-18 I think on the score. Neaumann was 186-93-1 at Nederland. Thats a lot of wins. Nederland will be back. Quote
Guitar Man Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Reagan said: Let PNG look as bad as Nederland look and see what that culture looks likes. Good coaching brings about good culture. If Nederland had Joseph and PNG had Nederland’s coach we’d be talking about how bad the PNG culture is. I disagree with this. You wanna pin it all on coaching but PN-G has been successful for a long time, not just under Joseph. Multiple state championships and great seasons to prove this. Always competitive and in every game just about. Again, the two schools do not compare when it comes to the culture. There have been some amazing coaches come through Nederland and they still have 0 state championships. It is not just the coaching that is the culprit. PN-G is on a whole different planet when it comes to support from the community. Teams don't identify themselves by their coaches. They define themselves based on their identity. Ask any state champion how they got there. I guarantee you, coaching is a small part of an identity this is NOT rooted in a coach. Great teams are lead by great young men that bought into a program with the support of their community. WO-S lost that community support based on a hire they didn't like. Now look at them. They are missing their identity because the community turned on the coach, school, and the players' performance on the field followed. Tell me I am wrong. The game is bigger than just a good coach. TrojanMoJo and Right99JOH 2 Quote
Reagan Posted December 19, 2023 Author Report Posted December 19, 2023 40 minutes ago, Guitar Man said: I disagree with this. You wanna pin it all on coaching but PN-G has been successful for a long time, not just under Joseph. Multiple state championships and great seasons to prove this. Always competitive and in every game just about. Again, the two schools do not compare when it comes to the culture. There have been some amazing coaches come through Nederland and they still have 0 state championships. It is not just the coaching that is the culprit. PN-G is on a whole different planet when it comes to support from the community. Teams don't identify themselves by their coaches. They define themselves based on their identity. Ask any state champion how they got there. I guarantee you, coaching is a small part of an identity this is NOT rooted in a coach. Great teams are lead by great young men that bought into a program with the support of their community. WO-S lost that community support based on a hire they didn't like. Now look at them. They are missing their identity because the community turned on the coach, school, and the players' performance on the field followed. Tell me I am wrong. The game is bigger than just a good coach. I'll ask you a simple question. And, since all we do is give opinions, this is all the answer will be. If Nederland had PNG's coaching staff you think Nederland would look as bad as they have been? How about this: You don't think Buchanan at Aledo or Surratt at Carthage had any affect on the school winning and community support? Trust me -- if PNG was going 0-10 there would not be the excited that you see now and seen in the past under the right coach. PS, what has happened to Nederland? Could it be because of the wrong coach?! I think so! Again, my opinion! Quote
Bigdog Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 13 minutes ago, Reagan said: I'll ask you a simple question. And, since all we do is give opinions, this is all the answer will be. If Nederland had PNG's coaching staff you think Nederland would look as bad as they have been? How about this: You don't think Buchanan at Aledo or Surratt at Carthage had any affect on the school winning and community support? Trust me -- if PNG was going 0-10 there would not be the excited that you see now and seen in the past under the right coach. PS, what has happened to Nederland? Could it be because of the wrong coach?! I think so! Again, my opinion! You conveniently forget that the 80s and 90s weren't great for PNG either other than 99. Even some of the last six or so years Ethridge coached. Malone made one run in 89 (Lost to A&M Consl. I think) and Burnett made the 99 run. other than that a few one and done in the playoffs and a bunch of losing seasons. 1978 6-4-0 237-122 Doug Ethridge 1979 4-5-1 136-156 Doug Ethridge 1980 7-3-0 235-124 Doug Ethridge 1981 3-7-0 123-144 Doug Ethridge 1982 4-6-0 182-179 Doug Ethridge 1983 6-3-1 203-147 Doug Ethridge 1984 3-7-0 132-186 Butch Troy 1985 3-7-0 99-181 Butch Troy 1986 1-8-1 125-273 Butch Troy 1987 4-5-1 158-262 Butch Troy 1988 1-8-0 77-223 Butch Troy 1989 R-- 12-2-0 388-201 Danny Malone 1990 R 7-4-0 252-158 Danny Malone 1991 6-4-0 193-189 Tim Owen 1992 C 9-2-0 331-120 Tim Owen 1993 2-7-1 74-194 Tim Owen 1994 1-9-0 178-277 Matt Burnett 1995 3-7-0 181-272 Matt Burnett 1996 C-- 10-2-0 369-109 Matt Burnett 1997 7-3-0 251-181 Matt Burnett 1998 R 9-2-0 336-125 Matt Burnett 1999 CO 14-2-0 488-255 Matt Burnett Quote
Reagan Posted December 19, 2023 Author Report Posted December 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Bigdog said: You conveniently forget that the 80s and 90s weren't great for PNG either other than 99. Even some of the last six or so years Ethridge coached. Malone made one run in 89 (Lost to A&M Consl. I think) and Burnett made the 99 run. other than that a few one and done in the playoffs and a bunch of losing seasons. 1978 6-4-0 237-122 Doug Ethridge 1979 4-5-1 136-156 Doug Ethridge 1980 7-3-0 235-124 Doug Ethridge 1981 3-7-0 123-144 Doug Ethridge 1982 4-6-0 182-179 Doug Ethridge 1983 6-3-1 203-147 Doug Ethridge 1984 3-7-0 132-186 Butch Troy 1985 3-7-0 99-181 Butch Troy 1986 1-8-1 125-273 Butch Troy 1987 4-5-1 158-262 Butch Troy 1988 1-8-0 77-223 Butch Troy 1989 R-- 12-2-0 388-201 Danny Malone 1990 R 7-4-0 252-158 Danny Malone 1991 6-4-0 193-189 Tim Owen 1992 C 9-2-0 331-120 Tim Owen 1993 2-7-1 74-194 Tim Owen 1994 1-9-0 178-277 Matt Burnett 1995 3-7-0 181-272 Matt Burnett 1996 C-- 10-2-0 369-109 Matt Burnett 1997 7-3-0 251-181 Matt Burnett 1998 R 9-2-0 336-125 Matt Burnett 1999 CO 14-2-0 488-255 Matt Burnett Didn't conveniently do anything. If you are talking about swapping staffs, I'm talking about the past two years. Still, though, the facts remain: PNG 5 State appearances and 2 Titles -- Nederland 0 on both accounts. You want to comment on what you think is the reason? Quote
PN-G bamatex Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 8 minutes ago, Bigdog said: You conveniently forget that the 80s and 90s weren't great for PNG either other than 99. Even some of the last six or so years Ethridge coached. Malone made one run in 89 (Lost to A&M Consl. I think) and Burnett made the 99 run. other than that a few one and done in the playoffs and a bunch of losing seasons. 1978 6-4-0 237-122 Doug Ethridge 1979 4-5-1 136-156 Doug Ethridge 1980 7-3-0 235-124 Doug Ethridge 1981 3-7-0 123-144 Doug Ethridge 1982 4-6-0 182-179 Doug Ethridge 1983 6-3-1 203-147 Doug Ethridge 1984 3-7-0 132-186 Butch Troy 1985 3-7-0 99-181 Butch Troy 1986 1-8-1 125-273 Butch Troy 1987 4-5-1 158-262 Butch Troy 1988 1-8-0 77-223 Butch Troy 1989 R-- 12-2-0 388-201 Danny Malone 1990 R 7-4-0 252-158 Danny Malone 1991 6-4-0 193-189 Tim Owen 1992 C 9-2-0 331-120 Tim Owen 1993 2-7-1 74-194 Tim Owen 1994 1-9-0 178-277 Matt Burnett 1995 3-7-0 181-272 Matt Burnett 1996 C-- 10-2-0 369-109 Matt Burnett 1997 7-3-0 251-181 Matt Burnett 1998 R 9-2-0 336-125 Matt Burnett 1999 CO 14-2-0 488-255 Matt Burnett Most veteran PN-G fans will tell you the problem in the latter years of Ethridge's tenure was that he lost his coordinators and his best position coaches and couldn't find strong candidates to replace them. Reagan 1 Quote
Reagan Posted December 19, 2023 Author Report Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, PN-G bamatex said: Most veteran PN-G fans will tell you the problem in the latter years of Ethridge's tenure was that he lost his coordinators and his best position coaches and couldn't find strong candidates to replace them. Plus, under Troy's guidance there wasn't much community enthusiasm. Like any school, it comes and goes with the right coach. Nederland, under Nueman, had great community support. Quote
PN-G bamatex Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 We keep having this debate over talent versus coaching. I personally think the right coaching is the most important factor in the success of any program, but I also think we shouldn't ignore the interplay between the two. As I stated in another thread, the best coaches find a way to get the most out of their kids, whether they've got a ton of talent or none. To be clear, I'm not just referring to motivation, or discipline, or execution, or community support and program culture, or adapting a system and a playbook around the personnel. I'm also referring to player development. A strong strength and conditioning regimen is an important part of any successful football program. Some programs are much better at developing their talent than others. If we're being honest, that's Nick Saban's secret sauce. When Saban brought in Scott Cochran to revolutionize the Alabama weight room shortly after Saban arrived in Tuscaloosa, Alabama became a championship contender in two seasons. Kirby Smart lured Cochran to Georgia to do the same thing plus coach special teams, and then Georgia won back-to-back national championships in Cochran's second and third seasons in Athens. Many Alabama fans, myself included, felt Cochran's absence in Tuscaloosa was the missing factor during the last few seasons when we seemed to lose some of our intensity. Coach Joseph will be the first person to tell you PN-G's success under his tenure started in the Indians' weight room during spring training. My point is, good coaching will develop talent to realize its full athletic potential. Granted, that relies upon some stock level of talent at the start of the process. Without that development, however, the potential is never reached, and that is almost entirely a factor of coaching. Quote
Bigdog Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 47 minutes ago, PN-G bamatex said: Most veteran PN-G fans will tell you the problem in the latter years of Ethridge's tenure was that he lost his coordinators and his best position coaches and couldn't find strong candidates to replace them. It happens especially when you have a successful program. Quote
pine curtain Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 1 hour ago, PN-G bamatex said: Most veteran PN-G fans will tell you the problem in the latter years of Ethridge's tenure was that he lost his coordinators and his best position coaches and couldn't find strong candidates to replace them. I heard PN-g might have already lost their OC....... Quote
NHSBulldogFan Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 7 hours ago, Reagan said: So, Nederland has the same type athlete available. One can't be so silly to think otherwise. Like, what, there's a wall between the two cities and the good kids can only stay on one side? It's easy to complain. So, what has been Nederland's problem over these years and what is the answers? And on the other hand, during these years, why has PNG been so successful? I've got alot of thoughts on this There's not a drastic difference at QB, RB, or WR between the two schools IMO here's where the difference is... PN-Gs offensive line this past year was the biggest I have ever seen at PN-G they are big and they can MOVE there is no comparison when you compare the offensive line of PN-G to Nederland PN-Gs offensive line can move mountains Nederland's offensive line could get blown over by a small win PN-G-both offensive and defensive coordinators as well as the offensive line coach won state BEFORE arriving at PN-G Nederland-not a single coach had ever won state PN-G is making the run that it is because of coaching the greater emphasis on defense and technique and the size of the offensive line all of those things Nederland has none of. I also don't think it's a facility issue nor is it a community support issue I'll close with this when Brandon Faircloth left PN-G the schoolboard made a decision we're going to go out and get the best coaches we can and it has paid off in spades...Nederland schoolboard doesn't care about being the best instead the priority is on what your last name is and if you're a good ol' boy or not...it's actually reached the point of complacency and contentment with 4 win seasons or less which after Larry Neumann had coached us I thought we would never get back to but here we are 1989NDN and outanup 1 1 Quote
NHSBulldogFan Posted December 19, 2023 Report Posted December 19, 2023 50 minutes ago, PN-G bamatex said: We keep having this debate over talent versus coaching. I personally think the right coaching is the most important factor in the success of any program, but I also think we shouldn't ignore the interplay between the two. As I stated in another thread, the best coaches find a way to get the most out of their kids, whether they've got a ton of talent or none. To be clear, I'm not just referring to motivation, or discipline, or execution, or community support and program culture, or adapting a system and a playbook around the personnel. I'm also referring to player development. A strong strength and conditioning regimen is an important part of any successful football program. Some programs are much better at developing their talent than others. If we're being honest, that's Nick Saban's secret sauce. When Saban brought in Scott Cochran to revolutionize the Alabama weight room shortly after Saban arrived in Tuscaloosa, Alabama became a championship contender in two seasons. Kirby Smart lured Cochran to Georgia to do the same thing plus coach special teams, and then Georgia won back-to-back national championships in Cochran's second and third seasons in Athens. Many Alabama fans, myself included, felt Cochran's absence in Tuscaloosa was the missing factor during the last few seasons when we seemed to lose some of our intensity. Coach Joseph will be the first person to tell you PN-G's success under his tenure started in the Indians' weight room during spring training. My point is, good coaching will develop talent to realize its full athletic potential. Granted, that relies upon some stock level of talent at the start of the process. Without that development, however, the potential is never reached, and that is almost entirely a factor of coaching. There is no comparison between PN-G and Nederland when it comes to strength and conditioning...one of these is not like the other😄 glassjoe and PN-G bamatex 2 Quote
glassjoe Posted December 20, 2023 Report Posted December 20, 2023 And another coach 1 hour ago, pine curtain said: I heard PN-g might have already lost their OC....... Quote
pine curtain Posted December 20, 2023 Report Posted December 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, glassjoe said: And another coach WOW I had only heard of the one. that might be a good thing for orangefield Quote
Rez Posted December 20, 2023 Report Posted December 20, 2023 1 hour ago, PN-G bamatex said: We keep having this debate over talent versus coaching. I personally think the right coaching is the most important factor in the success of any program, but I also think we shouldn't ignore the interplay between the two. As I stated in another thread, the best coaches find a way to get the most out of their kids, whether they've got a ton of talent or none. To be clear, I'm not just referring to motivation, or discipline, or execution, or community support and program culture, or adapting a system and a playbook around the personnel. I'm also referring to player development. A strong strength and conditioning regimen is an important part of any successful football program. Some programs are much better at developing their talent than others. If we're being honest, that's Nick Saban's secret sauce. When Saban brought in Scott Cochran to revolutionize the Alabama weight room shortly after Saban arrived in Tuscaloosa, Alabama became a championship contender in two seasons. Kirby Smart lured Cochran to Georgia to do the same thing plus coach special teams, and then Georgia won back-to-back national championships in Cochran's second and third seasons in Athens. Many Alabama fans, myself included, felt Cochran's absence in Tuscaloosa was the missing factor during the last few seasons when we seemed to lose some of our intensity. Coach Joseph will be the first person to tell you PN-G's success under his tenure started in the Indians' weight room during spring training. My point is, good coaching will develop talent to realize its full athletic potential. Granted, that relies upon some stock level of talent at the start of the process. Without that development, however, the potential is never reached, and that is almost entirely a factor of coaching. The physical difference in PnG’s players after one off-season under Joseph was obvious. We went from being skinny high school kids to developed athletes. The progress only continued into year two. I don’t know if Faircloth just didn’t have a lot of faith in the weight room, or thought we were already doing enough, but it’s clear now there was another level to get the boys to. PN-G bamatex 1 Quote
Rez Posted December 20, 2023 Report Posted December 20, 2023 12 minutes ago, glassjoe said: And another coach What coaches and to where, or does anyone actually know? Quote
PhatMack19 Posted December 20, 2023 Report Posted December 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said: What coaches and to where, or does anyone actually know? O-line & Strength & conditioning- Same person Rez 1 Quote
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