Nederland is open, Barrow Resigns

[Bigdog]

8 minutes ago, KF89 said:

NHS409 is speaking facts. Whoever takes the Nederland job has to rebuild the program from the ground up, that will take a few years to get back to competing for district titles & making decent playoff runs.

Give me a break.   They were co district champs 3 years ago and 6-4 the year after that.   They won 4 out of 7 district games last season and only two losses were by more than two scores (PNG and TC).  Two bad seasons doesn't mean the program has bottomed out.

[navydawg31]

14 minutes ago, KF89 said:

NHS409 is speaking facts. Whoever takes the Nederland job has to rebuild the program from the ground up, that will take a few years to get back to competing for district titles & making decent playoff runs.

The district Ned gets put in will be a factor also

Whoever takes the Nederland will be setting their own ways and culture that’s what happens when a Head Coach takes over… PNG in 2008 2-7 Faircloth comes in set his culture rebuild in year 1 in 2009 11-1… Peevey at LCM year before he got there 1-7  when Peevey arrived 11-3… 

there’s a lot of talent walking them halls and lot of kids specializing in only 1 sport, gotta get those kids back into the program and play multiple sports. Coaching staff got very stale and ran its course. Gotta stop the family and friends and hiring and start the hiring best qualified coach which I’m hoping NISD has learned its lesson on that one…. Starts at the top and they are making a change a step imo in the right direction. 

[KF89]

1 minute ago, Bigdog said:

Give me a break.   They were co district champs 3 years ago and 6-4 the year after that.   They won 4 out of 6 district games last season and only two losses were by more than two scores.  Two bad seasons doesn't mean the program has bottomed out.

District was down last year, except PNG. Ned is down. New head coach & staff will have to change the whole mentality of the program from the bottom up & get all players\parents\community to be 100% all in with the new regime. Thats what i mean about bottomed out. 

You may be right that Nederland is not bottomed out. They have some talent coming back & some talent coming up from the 9th & 8th grade groups. It will take alot of hard work & time to get to png level tho

[NHSBulldogFan]

23 minutes ago, KF89 said:

NHS409 is speaking facts. Whoever takes the Nederland job has to rebuild the program from the ground up, that will take a few years to get back to competing for district titles & making decent playoff runs.

The district Ned gets put in will be a factor also

I don't think we're that far off we have several 3 year starters back for 2024 just need consistency...my question with the impressive names applying are can Nederland close the deal we've been here before will this time be different 

[SmashMouth]

11 minutes ago, KF89 said:

Ned is down. New head coach & staff will have to change the whole mentality of the program from the bottom up & get all players\parents\community to be 100% all in with the new regime.

That's kinda the reason for hiring a quality head coach, right?

[SmashMouth]

1 hour ago, NHS409 said:

Nederland is down down, they can't and will not win in the trenches. The D-line will be better than the O-line but that's not saying much AT ALL!! Until they get some lineman Nederland will be average at best!! I feel bad for the running backs, I hear Mosley is doing some things to keep the running back for Nederland which seems a lil fishy but hey you have to do what you have to do to keep the best athlete on the team I guess. I just don't see Nederland getting to PNG's caliber no time soon. The demographics has changed tremendously at Nederland. A huge influx of mexican students have stormed in, plenty who can barely speak english, and don't play football. If they do anything, it's soccer. Nederland has definitely changed and not for the better!!

You're a silly man. How many moons are in your world?

[NHSBulldogFan]

7 minutes ago, KF89 said:

What are these impressive names applying? No need to keep secrets😎 Depends on if those 3 year starters earned their positions or were given spots based on Nederland family,coaching ties or coaches kids like others have mentioned as being problems?

All the guys who will be 3 year starters have earned their place its everywhere else is the question mark 

[outanup]

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[NHSBulldogFan]

3 minutes ago, KF89 said:

The new coaching staff might not agree on all these 3 year starters after watching game film. Hopefully the new staff comes in with the philosophy all players will have to prove themselves & earn starting spots.

Spots are earned not given I'll agree with that 

[outanup]

My biggest question. Is it true participation is as down as advertised? Do we have a bunch of kids not participating because of the coaching staff? Can someone answer this?

[Rez]

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a good one just became available 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

32 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

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a good one just became available 

Hope he enjoys his retirement if he chooses. 

[Bigdog]

41 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

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a good one just became available 

I mean, he has a pretty good record. Just dont know if it will translate to 5A.

HOUSTON GUY
17 years; 167-49-0; 15-11-0
—staff, Wall—
2007  Wall                 4-6-0
2008  Wall                 3-7-0
2009  Wall                 7-4-0 R
2010  Wall               12-2-0 R
2011  Wall-              11-1-0*
2012  Wall               12-2-0*
2013  Wall               15-1-0*
2014  Wall               11-2-0*
2015  Wall               12-1-0*
2016  Wall               11-4-0*
2017  Wall               12-1-0*
2018  Wall                 9-3-0*
2019  Wall               12-1-0*
2020  Wall                 8-4-0 R
2021  Wall                 5-5-0 F
2022  Wall               12-2-0*
2023  Wall               11-3-0*

[navydawg31]

49 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

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a good one just became available 

No thanks.. 

[Rez]

21 hours ago, outanup said:

My biggest question. Is it true participation is as down as advertised? Do we have a bunch of kids not participating because of the coaching staff? Can someone answer this?

With no data, my assumption is participation is down. This is based on anecdotes from Nederland people who at least claim to be aware of kids who might otherwise be playing who are walking the halls instead. And, it seems to follow that if a program isn’t doing well there’s at least a few who walk away. Participation goes up with success. PNG had at least one key player come back between Joseph’s first and second years. That might just be a coincidence (unrelated to the success in Year 1). Also, just given Nederland’s history of having good players, I assume those people still exist even if they aren’t on the team. The only other explanation would be that Nederland just doesn’t have good players right now, which I refuse to believe, and I strongly suspect a new coach will prove me right.

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, Rez Ipsa said:

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a good one just became available 

The article said he was actually relieved of his duties.  I wonder why?!  

[Reagan]

30 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

With no data, my assumption is participation is down. This is based on anecdotes from Nederland people who at least claim to be aware of kids who might otherwise be playing who are walking the halls instead. And, it seems to follow that if a program isn’t doing well there’s at least a few who walk away. Participation goes up with success. PNG had at least one key player come back between Joseph’s first and second years. That might just be a coincidence (unrelated to the success in Year 1). Also, just given Nederland’s history of having good players, I assume those people still exist even if they aren’t on the team. The only other explanation would be that Nederland just doesn’t have good players right now, which I refuse to believe, and I strongly suspect a new coach will prove me right.

Things at PNG wasn't as bad as they were towards the end at Nederland.  PNG probably had the good players from the halls that were already playing when the new coach got there.  Kids quit and never came out because how bad Nederland had become.  Get the right coach and start winning and you'll see how many kids you'll have available.  

[SmashMouth]

4 minutes ago, Reagan said:

The article said he was actually relieved of his duties.  I wonder why?!  

I heard it's because he had not won a state championship in his first 7 years. 🤷‍♂️

[Reagan]

1 minute ago, SmashMouth said:

I heard it's because he had not won a state championship in his first 7 years. 🤷‍♂️

Well, maybe somewhat true.  This was year 17 for them.  Maybe that's their limit.  Remember, PNG's was 12 years.  And Vidor didn't have any limits.  But, looks like they are slowly coming around to the fact that, if they care, limits are needed.  Do I hear an Amen!  LOL!!

[Rez]

18 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Things at PNG wasn't as bad as they were towards the end at Nederland.  PNG probably had the good players from the halls that were already playing when the new coach got there.  Kids quit and never came out because how bad Nederland had become.  Get the right coach and start winning and you'll see how many kids you'll have available.  

Right - this is something I think needs to be underlined. Joseph inherited a healthy program with kids who had won several key games and had had a deep-ish playoff run. He didn’t have to “rebuild” so much as “redirect.” It sounds like Nederland will need to do something closer to a true rebuild.

That’s going to be key in how people evaluate the new guy. If the standard is “do exactly what png did and go straight to state,” that’s probably not going to work, because Faircloth left PNG in a state that is ahead of schedule relative to where Nederland is.

But, I don’t think we’re talking a several year rebuild. I think Nederland just needs to get kids back , get more kids in, hit the weight room better and structure themselves to go toe-to-toe with the power and conditioning of elite programs. They aren’t far off - If Nederland had 1% improvements across every category of improvement, they become an entirely different team.

A lot of Nedeand’s woes amount to just being left behind, not so much getting worse . The last two years, Barrow would probably have gone at least 1-1 against PNG if Faircloth had stayed the coach, because Faircloth built his teams the way Barrow does - Poor conditioning, low strength training, no attention to defense, and just hope you win by two points in a shootout. Joseph doesn’t do that, and he showed that there‘a a recipe for the mid county schools to compete at the highest level. Nederland can do it too, but given the current state of the program it might take a year or two to really see the results. But it could also be immediate, as we’ve seen. 

[mojo03]

8 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

Right - this is something I think needs to be underlined. Joseph inherited a healthy program with kids who had won several key games and had had a deep-ish playoff run. He didn’t have to “rebuild” so much as “redirect.” It sounds like Nederland will need to do something closer to a true rebuild.

That’s going to be key in how people evaluate the new guy. If the standard is “do exactly what png did and go straight to state,” that’s probably not going to work, because Faircloth left PNG in a state that is ahead of schedule relative to where Nederland is.

But, I don’t think we’re talking a several year rebuild. I think Nederland just needs to get kids back , get more kids in, hit the weight room better and structure themselves to go toe-to-toe with the power and conditioning of elite programs. They aren’t far off - If Nederland had 1% improvements across every category of improvement, they become an entirely different team.

A lot of Nedeand’s woes amount to just being left behind, not so much getting worse . The last two years, Barrow would probably have gone at least 1-1 against PNG if Faircloth had stayed the coach, because Faircloth built his teams the way Barrow does - Poor conditioning, low strength training, no attention to defense, and just hope you win by two points in a shootout. Joseph doesn’t do that, and he showed that there‘a a recipe for the mid county schools to compete at the highest level. Nederland can do it too, but given the current state of the program it might take a year or two to really see the results. But it could also be immediate, as we’ve seen. 

It is also nice to have multiple athletes 6'-3"+, 280+ to shore up the trenches..... I haven't seen many of those walking around NHS

[1970]

1 hour ago, Rez Ipsa said:

With no data, my assumption is participation is down. This is based on anecdotes from Nederland people who at least claim to be aware of kids who might otherwise be playing who are walking the halls instead. And, it seems to follow that if a program isn’t doing well there’s at least a few who walk away. Participation goes up with success. PNG had at least one key player come back between Joseph’s first and second years. That might just be a coincidence (unrelated to the success in Year 1). Also, just given Nederland’s history of having good players, I assume those people still exist even if they aren’t on the team. The only other explanation would be that Nederland just doesn’t have good players right now, which I refuse to believe, and I strongly suspect a new coach will prove me right.

+1 on all of that, and it's no secret what went on at PNG when Faircloth was let go, it was in the papers, or at PA News IIRC. There were meetings, and at one of the meetings the QB (last season's starting QB) spoke up for Faircloth. A photo of this was in the local papers, so not secret. Several varsity and JV boys either quit football, or else sat out last season with nagging injuries. After last season's success I know of at least 3 players that came back, and all 3 had/have PNG connections, and all 3 were made starters this season. NOTE:  I'm not taking anything from the boys, they are all 3 good athletes, and were productive, although 1 ended up injured for most of the season. There may be more that I'm not aware of, but anyway, that's how it is with coaching changes along with immediate success. 

[NHSBulldogFan]

27 minutes ago, LIBERTY82 said:

So, Barrier to Nederland ?

LOL no that ship has sailed 

[navydawg31]

49 minutes ago, mojo03 said:

It is also nice to have multiple athletes 6'-3"+, 280+ to shore up the trenches..... I haven't seen many of those walking around NHS

They are there, they choose to walk the halls or 6’3 205 pound kid that has to workout on his own because coaches won’t stay after school to open up the locker room/ set up a workout plan, so they have to do things on their own… instead of working out getting bigger stronger under guidance of the coaches and the coaches helping and guiding kids to let’s gain some healthy weight let’s try to eat these things and stay away from these things. But there’s no D. Spell in the building anymore to help out with that. 

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, Rez Ipsa said:

Right - this is something I think needs to be underlined. Joseph inherited a healthy program with kids who had won several key games and had had a deep-ish playoff run. He didn’t have to “rebuild” so much as “redirect.” It sounds like Nederland will need to do something closer to a true rebuild.

That’s going to be key in how people evaluate the new guy. If the standard is “do exactly what png did and go straight to state,” that’s probably not going to work, because Faircloth left PNG in a state that is ahead of schedule relative to where Nederland is.

But, I don’t think we’re talking a several year rebuild. I think Nederland just needs to get kids back , get more kids in, hit the weight room better and structure themselves to go toe-to-toe with the power and conditioning of elite programs. They aren’t far off - If Nederland had 1% improvements across every category of improvement, they become an entirely different team.

A lot of Nedeand’s woes amount to just being left behind, not so much getting worse . The last two years, Barrow would probably have gone at least 1-1 against PNG if Faircloth had stayed the coach, because Faircloth built his teams the way Barrow does - Poor conditioning, low strength training, no attention to defense, and just hope you win by two points in a shootout. Joseph doesn’t do that, and he showed that there‘a a recipe for the mid county schools to compete at the highest level. Nederland can do it too, but given the current state of the program it might take a year or two to really see the results. But it could also be immediate, as we’ve seen. 

That's why I said it all depends on how systemic the bad is.  Under normal circumstances you usually give a coach 1 year to install his system.  Second year should show marked improvement.  Third year should start competing for a Title.  But, like you have stated, it all depends how deep the bad is as to how long it'll take.