Lumberton 39 Vidor 48/FINAL

[Excoach1970]

21 minutes ago, Bobcat1 said:

Depends on how you're defining great.  

Well what was lumberton basketball before he got there? How many coach of the years has he won if any? How many college players has he coached? Has he won at other places he coached at?  I mean real simple how many years has Lumberton been playing basketball prob 60 years?? How many playoff appearances do they have? 

[BadgerNation]

33 minutes ago, EagleFan2004 said:

We aren’t dumb here. We all know that people in this area like to judge coaches. I’ve coached at a high level long enough to know if a coach is good not based off of wins but based off of potential. Lumberton has had some of the worst basketball players I’ve layed my eyes on and manages to make them competitive every single year. I would like to see these SETX elite coaches get the rosters that Mitchell has gotten and see if they can win (they wouldn’t). Until I see them have the caliber of players Mitchell has and win you can’t say he isn’t a great coach. 

...

[bullets13]

46 minutes ago, EagleFan2004 said:

We aren’t dumb here. We all know that people in this area like to judge coaches. I’ve coached at a high level long enough to know if a coach is good not based off of wins but based off of potential. Lumberton has had some of the worst basketball players I’ve layed my eyes on and manages to make them competitive every single year. I would like to see these SETX elite coaches get the rosters that Mitchell has gotten and see if they can win (they wouldn’t). Until I see them have the caliber of players Mitchell has and win you can’t say he isn’t a great coach. 

You aren't dumb here, but Mitchell is better than all of those coaches.  Got it.  But here's the thing... without that caliber of player, Mitchell isn't really winning much either.  Which is okay.  It's hard to win with weak players.  But don't tell me those other coaches on this list can't go 11-20 with his roster this year.  Or 19-18 and 17-14 the last two years playing in multiple 2A-3A tourneys both seasons.  That's asinine.  

[bullets13]

2 hours ago, HasBeen36 said:

I've coached against all of those guys and English, Davis, Joubert, Sutherland, and Green. They all have better players each and every year and when lumberton had one college guy what did they do? They won a district ship at Lumberton and honestly I watched Lumberton play in a warm up game that year and wasn't that impressed with Mclure. Dude got a hometown offer to Lamar. Yall say I'm a Mitchell fan club member but honestly I just don't get the hate this guy gets. Dude gets a little passionate and forces his kids to play hard and you think his off the court "antics" make him bad. I see kids who play hard and love the game and then leave his program as young men because he treats them that way. 

 

Some stuff happened several years back that really bothered me, but I'm over it, and have been for some time.  I won't rehash it.  At this point it's just the insane posts from his supporters that when you dispute them makes it seem like hate.  

[BadgerNation]

I do not think you can ever put Mitchells name up there with those guys like Southerland, Davis, Joubert, and Green. As someone who played for Mitchell, he ruined the game for a lot of us with his toxic traits. A lot of us would have rather gone and played for Joub or Southerland. Those guys care for their players, develop them. Mitchell did not. I have heard since then that things have gotten better and obviously wish nothing but the best for him. I do think its time Lumberton considers bringing in a guy that has heart for the game and isn't there for publicity.

[Excoach1970]

32 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

You aren't dumb here, but Mitchell is better than all of those coaches.  Got it.  But here's the thing... without that caliber of player, Mitchell isn't really winning much either.  Which is okay.  It's hard to win with weak players.  But don't tell me those other coaches on this list can't go 11-20 with his roster this year.  Or 19-18 and 17-14 the last two years playing in multiple 2A-3A tourneys both seasons.  That's asinine.  

How many time has Lumberton made the playoffs? Seems like Lumberton played really tough schedule this year. Didn’t play any small tournaments but answer it for me how many times has Lumberton made playoffs? How good was that player his freshman and soph year? How many Offers did the player have?? If it was only Lamar that that’s not really impressive. 

[Excoach1970]

11 minutes ago, BadgerNation said:

I do not think you can ever put Mitchells name up there with those guys like Southerland, Davis, Joubert, and Green. As someone who played for Mitchell, he ruined the game for a lot of us with his toxic traits. A lot of us would have rather gone and played for Joub or Southerland. Those guys care for their players, develop them. Mitchell did not. I have heard since then that things have gotten better and obviously wish nothing but the best for him. I do think it’s time Lumberton considers bringing in a guy that has heart for the game and isn't there for publicity.

Now this is a hating post, only been 2 coaches to bring lumberton to the playoffs and it’s time for them to bring in someone else 😂😂 green, Joubert, Sutherland, Davis, have dudes each and every year. Don’t sit here and say they don’t have better athletes/basketball kids 95 percent of the time then  you are delusional. 

[BadgerNation]

15 minutes ago, Excoach1970 said:

Now this is a hating post, only been 2 coaches to bring lumberton to the playoffs and it’s time for them to bring in someone else 😂😂 green, Joubert, Sutherland, Davis, have dudes each and every year. Don’t sit here and say they don’t have better athletes/basketball kids 95 percent of the time then  you are delusional. 

No question in my mind that they have better athletes but can you say that coaches like that don't develop players better than Mitchell? To consistently be that successful year in and year out. Again I said what I said and you can not put Mitchells name up there with those guys. If you do you are delusional. 

 

Mind you same guy a couple years ago that was scared to get blown out by Silsbee. Had his boys line up on the inbounds line, backs to the court and hand the ball off to one another for 5 minutes. What a coach!!!

[Excoach1970]

5 minutes ago, BadgerNation said:

No question in my mind that they have better athletes but can you say that coaches like that don't develop players better than Mitchell? To consistently be that successful year in and year out. Again I said what I said and you can not put Mitchells name up there with those guys. If you do you are delusional. 

Why can’t you? Do you think those coaches developed the college kids they coach all the time come on now. Green isn’t developing kids he just coaches the kids and the kids work hard to become who they are, answer the question how many times has Lumberton made the basketball players? When Joubert didn’t have dudes did he win? When sig didn’t have talent did he win? All the guys above have better players year in and year out those are facts, Mitchell has one player who really got good going into  his senior year and they win district at Lumberton and I promise you not one person on here picked Lumberton to win district that year. 

[bullets13]

23 minutes ago, Excoach1970 said:

Well what was lumberton basketball before he got there? How many coach of the years has he won if any? How many college players has he coached? Has he won at other places he coached at?  I mean real simple how many years has Lumberton been playing basketball prob 60 years?? How many playoff appearances do they have? 

At some point it has to be asked what Lumberton basketball was before McClure got there.  Since McClure graduated Lumberton has a grand total of 3 wins against 4A or better playoff teams in 3 seasons.  That's not 3 playoff wins, that's 3 wins across 3 years in over 30 opportunities against 4A or better squads good enough to make the playoffs.  In McClure's last 3 years they had 14 of those wins, including 3 in the actual playoffs.  I'm not saying it was all McClure or that Mitchell had nothing to do with their improvement, but Mitchell also took over at the exact right time to take advantage of a significantly easier district and the best player in program history.  Since that player has gone the program has dropped off substantially.  I say none of this to criticize Mitchell, as it is tough to win without the players.  But if Lumberton keeps missing the playoffs with the occasional 4th place finish y'all are gonna have to stop trying to lump him in with the area's elite.  Especially since most of the hype is based on a 3-year turnaround that in large part was on the shoulders of one of those types of players that all of his biggest fans claim that he wins without.

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, Excoach1970 said:

How many time has Lumberton made the playoffs? Seems like Lumberton played really tough schedule this year. Didn’t play any small tournaments but answer it for me how many times has Lumberton made playoffs? How good was that player his freshman and soph year? How many Offers did the player have?? If it was only Lamar that that’s not really impressive. 

His freshman year they got blasted in the same district that Mitchell's predecessors got blasted in, so that's irrelevant.  He must have been pretty good the other 3 years, because Lumberton hasn't come close to duplicating what they did while he was there since.  And do you know how rare it is for a local 4A player not from Silsbee to get an offer to Lamar?  As to the strength of their schedule, it's not been really tough, but it's certainly tougher than years past.  That's been balanced out some by the fact that this is the worst district they've played in under Mitchell, and honestly in at least the last 20 years.  

[bullets13]

2 hours ago, Bobcat1 said:

Depends on how you're defining great.  

That's the whole point here, and it's clear that Mitchell's fans have a different definition than everyone else.  And it's a shame, because he's done just fine over there, but with all of the crazy claims made by a handful of people, these turn into what feels like an anti-Mitchell thread, when in reality they turn into anti-delusional Mitchell fan threads.  

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, Excoach1970 said:

Now this is a hating post, only been 2 coaches to bring lumberton to the playoffs and it’s time for them to bring in someone else 😂😂 green, Joubert, Sutherland, Davis, have dudes each and every year. Don’t sit here and say they don’t have better athletes/basketball kids 95 percent of the time then  you are delusional. 

@HasBeen36 This is a perfect example of the type of posts that drive me nuts, that when I reply to them it makes me seem like a Mitchell hater when that's not what I'm trying to do.  Mitchell did a good job getting Lumberton to the playoffs.  Hell, let's say he did a great job.  But then the post has to make it sound like he's better than these guys because he's doing "more with less".  But anyone with a lick of common sense knows  every single coach he listed here would've gone to the playoffs 3 times in a row with those McClure teams as well.  That doesn't mean Mitchell didn't do a good job, but there's this disingenuous narrative that he's somehow done something that nobody else could do.  And yes, in a normal year those guys have more talent that Mitchell does in Lumberton, but also in a normal year they have many more wins despite playing tougher schedules, and usually go further in the playoffs.  Like they're supposed to with their better talent.  That's no knock on Josh with his inferior talent, but how's it a knock on them for doing significantly more with more?  

[Excoach1970]

1 hour ago, BadgerNation said:

No question in my mind that they have better athletes but can you say that coaches like that don't develop players better than Mitchell? To consistently be that successful year in and year out. Again I said what I said and you can not put Mitchells name up there with those guys. If you do you are delusional. 

 

Mind you same guy a couple years ago that was scared to get blown out by Silsbee. Had his boys line up on the inbounds line, backs to the court and hand the ball off to one another for 5 minutes. What a coach!!!

That’s called doing something out of the ordinary and trying to put his team in a situation to win, smart coach if you ask me. 

[Excoach1970]

18 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

His freshman year they got blasted in the same district that Mitchell's predecessors got blasted in, so that's irrelevant.  He must have been pretty good the other 3 years, because Lumberton hasn't come close to duplicating what they did while he was there since.  And do you know how rare it is for a local 4A player not from Silsbee to get an offer to Lamar?  As to the strength of their schedule, it's not been really tough, but it's certainly tougher than years past.  That's been balanced out some by the fact that this is the worst district they've played in under Mitchell, and honestly in at least the last 20 years.  

I saw BC play they weren’t bad, WOS beat Nederland this year. Liberty, west fork, Splendora is a pretty weak district also 

[Excoach1970]

38 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

At some point it has to be asked what Lumberton basketball was before McClure got there.  Since McClure graduated Lumberton has a grand total of 3 wins against 4A or better playoff teams in 3 seasons.  That's not 3 playoff wins, that's 3 wins across 3 years in over 30 opportunities against 4A or better squads good enough to make the playoffs.  In McClure's last 3 years they had 14 of those wins, including 3 in the actual playoffs.  I'm not saying it was all McClure or that Mitchell had nothing to do with their improvement, but Mitchell also took over at the exact right time to take advantage of a significantly easier district and the best player in program history.  Since that player has gone the program has dropped off substantially.  I say none of this to criticize Mitchell, as it is tough to win without the players.  But if Lumberton keeps missing the playoffs with the occasional 4th place finish y'all are gonna have to stop trying to lump him in with the area's elite.  Especially since most of the hype is based on a 3-year turnaround that in large part was on the shoulders of one of those types of players that all of his biggest fans claim that he wins without.

Brock McClure wasn’t that special is soph year. Lumberton got 3rd, his junior year he was ok, why hasn’t lumberton made the playoffs with other coaches? Lumberton beat good Fannett team twice to get 3rd one year. How many times has Lumberton made the playoffs?  They were in 5a for 4 years in the toughest district in the state, he took over one of the worse 4A programs in the state and my right or wrong? 

[Excoach1970]

13 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

@HasBeen36 This is a perfect example of the type of posts that drive me nuts, that when I reply to them it makes me seem like a Mitchell hater when that's not what I'm trying to do.  Mitchell did a good job getting Lumberton to the playoffs.  Hell, let's say he did a great job.  But then the post has to make it sound like he's better than these guys because he's doing "more with less".  But anyone with a lick of common sense knows  every single coach he listed here would've gone to the playoffs 3 times in a row with those McClure teams as well.  That doesn't mean Mitchell didn't do a good job, but quit acting like he did something that all of the other quality coaches in the area would not have been able to do.  

One player doesn’t help you win a district championship, I looked at tabc predictions they didn’t pick Lumberton to make the top 4 last year. Coaches pick that from the district and they won the district. All I’m saying is how many times has lumberton made the playoffs since basketball existed at Lumberton why can’t you answer?

[Bobcat1]

21 minutes ago, Excoach1970 said:

One player doesn’t help you win a district championship, I looked at tabc predictions they didn’t pick Lumberton to make the top 4 last year. Coaches pick that from the district and they won the district. All I’m saying is how many times has lumberton made the playoffs since basketball existed at Lumberton why can’t you answer?

You tell us, none of us know the history as well as you do.  

Mitchell is a great coach with a losing record and one district champoinonship.  Is that what you're selling?  

[Excoach1970]

7 minutes ago, Bobcat1 said:

You tell us, none of us know the history as well as you do.  

Mitchell is a great coach with a losing record and one district champoinonship.  Is that what you're selling?  

Hes coach at Deweyville, Spurger, and Lumberton, I don’t think Coach K would have a winning record at those places and I bet he’s pretty close to having one though 

[AggiesAreWe]

14 minutes ago, Excoach1970 said:

One player doesn’t help you win a district championship, I looked at tabc predictions they didn’t pick Lumberton to make the top 4 last year. Coaches pick that from the district and they won the district. All I’m saying is how many times has lumberton made the playoffs since basketball existed at Lumberton why can’t you answer?

Shouldn't hang too much of a hat on that district championship. That was the year this Silsbee senior group were freshmen and I stated that if anyone was going to get Silsbee it was that year because those next three years Silsbee would dominate. Which they have. Also, Silsbee had to play their JV for two varsity games that year because of Covid protocols. Two losses that when Silsbee got their varsity team back they beat both those teams (LC-M and Vidor) by 25-30 points. Lumberton got the luxury of getting Silsbee right after they came out of Covid protocol (no practices) and beat Silsbee. Silsbee had beat Lumberton earlier in district play. Silsbee went on to play in the regional championship game that season, losing to Huffman by 6. A Huffman team that destroyed Lumberton in the playoffs that year by 34. I think it is very fair to say that Lumberton caught Silsbee at the right time. Anyone with any kind of basketball knowledge would agree with that. 

I think Josh is a good coach, no doubt. But to say that the other coaches would not do as well as he has given the situation is just not a fair or smart statement.

[AggiesAreWe]

1 minute ago, Excoach1970 said:

Hes coach at Deweyville, Spurger, and Lumberton, I don’t think Coach K would have a winning record at those places. 

I know two coaches that have winning records at Spurger. One took them to state tourney.

[bullets13]

45 minutes ago, Excoach1970 said:

Brock McClure wasn’t that special is soph year. Lumberton got 3rd, his junior year he was ok, why hasn’t lumberton made the playoffs with other coaches? Lumberton beat good Fannett team twice to get 3rd one year. How many times has Lumberton made the playoffs?  They were in 5a for 4 years in the toughest district in the state, he took over one of the worse 4A programs in the state and my right or wrong? 

this is like 8 different questions that are all over the place.  Lumberton, whether 4A or 5A, played the same tough local teams for at least 12 years before Mitchell took over, and he did the same as the guys before him the one year he played them.  I don't have any idea what their wins (with McClure) over HF have to do with anything.  And no, Lumberton was one of the worst 5A teams in the state.  Just by dropping down they improved dramatically.  McClure accelerated that.  Mitchell did a good job under fortuitous circumstances.  

[bullets13]

46 minutes ago, Excoach1970 said:

One player doesn’t help you win a district championship, I looked at tabc predictions they didn’t pick Lumberton to make the top 4 last year. Coaches pick that from the district and they won the district. All I’m saying is how many times has lumberton made the playoffs since basketball existed at Lumberton why can’t you answer?

sure.  they may not have made the playoffs in those 3 years without that one player, though.  maybe a 4th or something.

[Excoach1970]

12 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Shouldn't hang too much of a hat on that district championship. That was the year this Silsbee senior group were freshmen and I stated that if anyone was going to get Silsbee it was that year because those next three years Silsbee would dominate. Which they have. Also, Silsbee had to play their JV for two varsity games that year because of Covid protocols. Two losses that when Silsbee got their varsity team back they beat both those teams (LC-M and Vidor) by 25-30 points. Lumberton got the luxury of getting Silsbee right after they came out of Covid protocol (no practices) and beat Silsbee. Silsbee had beat Lumberton earlier in district play. Silsbee went on to play in the regional championship game that season, losing to Huffman by 6. A Huffman team that destroyed Lumberton in the playoffs that year by 34. I think it is very fair to say that Lumberton caught Silsbee at the right time. Anyone with any kind of basketball knowledge would agree with that. 

I think Josh is a good coach, no doubt. But to say that the other coaches would not do as well as he has given the situation is just not a fair or smart statement.

I am looking on maxpreps Silsbee played two games before Lumberton games maxpreps could be wrong but the website has gotten better and they played lcm and vidor and  didn’t have players right because of protocol so they lost. Then they beat ofield and then beat a really good BC team by 18 at BC. Then Lumberton goes to Silsbee and beats them. Looks to me Silsbee played really well when they got players back for ofield game and BC . BC beat HJ that year in playoffs and Silsbee upset the number 3 team in yates so Silsbee was pretty dang good. 

[AggiesAreWe]

In all honesty, Sigler did one of his best coaching jobs that season and IMO should have been COY.

A few of the local coaches thought so too.

 

But, enough of this talk. Time to move on from this game thread.