22-3A All District Picks

[AggiesAreWe]

First of all, in regards to the #1 seed game. I know that Orangefield wanted to flip and not play but Kountze said no. They wanted to play the game. So Orangefield had to agree to play or concede the #1 seed.

As for the superlatives go, I actually thought that Whitmire and Joubert should have been Co-COY. They both did tremendous jobs with their respective teams. I usually don't like Co's but in this case I think it's deserving and would have been the right thing to do.

I think the coaches got the MVP right. IMO, Sells is the best player and performed that way all season. I think Scales getting Offensive MVP is right on the money and Wrinkle getting Defensive was the correct call too. IMO, Wrinkle was more valuable to his team but isn't the scorer that Scales is. This is based on some of the games I have watched live and on video. When I talk to folks at the games it's always brought up how Wrinkle is Orangefield's "glue guy" (does it all) but just doesn't have the offensive game that Scales has. 

All in all, I think the coaches have it right.

Just my opinion. No shade thrown anywhere.

[72 Pinto]

23 hours ago, Cu Chulainn said:

Orangefield's Coach Whitmire deserved to be Coach Of The Year. He was a new coach with a new team that lost 7 Seniors the year before. The same 7 Seniors that some on here referred to as the "Most Dominant Senior Class Ever In Orangefield". Most on here projected us to finish 3rd or 4th in the district after last season. Coach Whit did return Scales and Wrinkle the previous year teams 2nd and 3rd leading scorers but he didnt have the depth that Joubert had or any impactful move ins (legitimate or not) that Kountze did. With all of that being considered, Whitmire coached Orangefield to a their first Co-District championship since 1954, two big tournament wins, Orangefield's All Time Winningest Record (33-6), and the 3rd Round of the Playoffs (not known at the time of voting). All of this with 70% of his scoring coming from two players (Scales & Wrinkle). That is coaching at it's finest in Texas H.S. Basketball.

Jaden "Ghost" Scales deserved to win "MVP" and not just "Offensive MVP". For all of the same above mentioned reasons, as well as putting up MVP numbers throughout the season on extremely efficient percentages and outplaying (Scales had 21 in the loss, 26 in the win) Sells in both District Matchups. The third Kountze/Orangefield - Playin Game was played after the District Meeting where voting took place. Even in that game, it was obvious who was believed to be the most dangerous player on the floor, and limiting Ghost's touches proved successful for Kountze because we didnt have enough fire power without him. With that being said, to me it is obvious who the most valuable player to their team was by how they were guarded and other teams chose to play them. Ghost was robbed again, just like last year when NOTY was given to Kountze instead of Ghost when he torched them in both meetings as a freshman when his counterpart's numbers were nowhere close to his. I can't honestly tell that story without also saying the MVP was given to Sells last year as well. So, both MVP and NCOTY went to a team last year that needed a Playin Game to make the playoffs. Perrault from EC (Best player on #1 Team) should have been MVP last year and Scales (2nd Leading Scorer on #2 Team) should have been Newcomer Of The Year - IMO

Don't get me wrong, Joubert is a great coach and Sells is a great player, that I have nothing but love for.  However, it seems they are able to have their cake and eat it too though. You can have a homegrown freshman (NCOTY) and move-ins (legitimate or whatever) that we all turn a blind eye to and watch you go from 4th to 1st, or you can be viewed as the best Coach and player in the District because you took your team so far without as much help. Watching the full swing of both arguments to benefit Kountze in the last two years isn't the easiest sell to me or many others on here and elsewhere. As always though, I am just the only one to say it. That's ok though, doing what is right is more important to me than doing what is popular.

Congratulations to all of the kids and Coaches who were recognized this year though! The voting this year was much closer to where it should be than it was last year by a long shot.

It doesn't matter what any of us think.  It's the district coaches' decision and they picked the best player on the best team so it can't be that egregious. 

I do think there should be some accountability with these votes, though.  These are public schools so the voting should be open to public record.  Maybe they could even do it at a place like Twin Peaks and people could present their case with film and stats.  Then we could see who voted for who without all the backwoods politicking. I think I would go to that all district meeting. 

[LoydW]

If that is the case my son should have been MVP last year cause he was face guarded just about full court by the best defender every district game except for the games against Kountze and still averaged 20+ points. But it is not the case. Perrault benefited from this as well as being the best athlete on our team last year. Sells is a phenomenal ball player who deserves the mvp. At worst if you believe in the co mvp stuff he would be that. If anything it is preparing him for college because that’s all they do is tight man coverage. 

[Bobcat1]

It depends on how each coach defines MVP.

Best player on the best team? Player with the most PPG? Player with the most steals and ppg combo? Best leader on a winning team that the team looks to, but maybe isn't the best player on the team?

The possibilites are endless.   

I have several friends who are coaches and they really dislike making these selections. 

 

 

[Cu Chulainn]

1 hour ago, LoydW said:

If that is the case my son should have been MVP last year cause he was face guarded just about full court by the best defender every district game except for the games against Kountze and still averaged 20+ points. But it is not the case. Perrault benefited from this as well as being the best athlete on our team last year. Sells is a phenomenal ball player who deserves the mvp. At worst if you believe in the co mvp stuff he would be that. If anything it is preparing him for college because that’s all they do is tight man coverage. 

If your son is Perrault from EC, then I believe he should have been the MVP last year as well, which is what I mentioned in a previous post. He was the best player on the best team last year. I believe Ragusa had a shot at MVP, but we couldn't steal a game from EC last year, so in fairness, I believe it should have been Perrault from EC.

If anyone ever actually read my posts and considered what I am saying, then they'd see that I'm not complaining about the coverage at all. Im just stating that you can watch how teams play certain players and it will let you know very quickly who is feared the most. Those are always your MVP caliber players. Other players benefit from playing with those type players because they get more open looks and weak side coverage. 

[Cu Chulainn]

8 hours ago, 72 Pinto said:

It doesn't matter what any of us think.  It's the district coaches' decision and they picked the best player on the best team so it can't be that egregious. 

I do think there should be some accountability with these votes, though.  These are public schools so the voting should be open to public record.  Maybe they could even do it at a place like Twin Peaks and people could present their case with film and stats.  Then we could see who voted for who without all the backwoods politicking. I think I would go to that all district meeting. 

I love your idea of a transparent District Meeting where there would be public record of votes and how players get nominated. It would end a lot of the bull we see go down.

[Cu Chulainn]

1 hour ago, Bobcat1 said:

It depends on how each coach defines MVP.

Best player on the best team? Player with the most PPG? Player with the most steals and ppg combo? Best leader on a winning team that the team looks to, but maybe isn't the best player on the team?

The possibilites are endless.   

I have several friends who are coaches and they really dislike making these selections. 

 

 

I agree, its very tough to define the criteria. I personally hate when they go by points because some players shoot it 30 times a game to get their points, while a real winner unselfishly leads. If two players put up near identical numbers and their records were identical as well, would it go to the more efficient player whose percentages were better? If a players team was stacked and he had more help, would his team be able to still win at a pretty high rate without him? Would his equal counterpart with less help be considered more valuable then?

In high school, it seems none of that is considered, but at any higher level of basketball percentages and efficiency would most definitely be considered.

[Cu Chulainn]

On 3/6/2024 at 3:13 PM, whsalum said:

I gotta ask the age old question, is there anyone who doesn’t make all district?

 

On 3/6/2024 at 3:51 PM, mfd814 said:

Evidently.   Only all the Kountze players make it , it’s biased.  

7 District Teams X 10 -12 players per team = 70 -84 players (Split it at 77 players est.)

77 Players - 4 Superlatives - 8 1st Team All District - 8 2nd Team All District = 57 Players that don't make it est.

[Cu Chulainn]

9 hours ago, AggiesAreWe said:

First of all, in regards to the #1 seed game. I know that Orangefield wanted to flip and not play but Kountze said no. They wanted to play the game. So Orangefield had to agree to play or concede the #1 seed.

As for the superlatives go, I actually thought that Whitmire and Joubert should have been Co-COY. They both did tremendous jobs with their respective teams. I usually don't like Co's but in this case I think it's deserving and would have been the right thing to do.

I think the coaches got the MVP right. IMO, Sells is the best player and performed that way all season. I think Scales getting Offensive MVP is right on the money and Wrinkle getting Defensive was the correct call too. IMO, Wrinkle was more valuable to his team but isn't the scorer that Scales is. This is based on some of the games I have watched live and on video. When I talk to folks at the games it's always brought up how Wrinkle is Orangefield's "glue guy" (does it all) but just doesn't have the offensive game that Scales has. 

All in all, I think the coaches have it right.

Just my opinion. No shade thrown anywhere.

I'll never take anything from Zane Wrinkle. He is a great kid and teammate that I think the World of. I'd call him our glue guy as well! Since that is the case though, was Mason Donald the glue guy for Kountze this year?

IYO, did the Coaches get their voting right in the 3A District Meeting last year?

[AggiesAreWe]

1 minute ago, Cu Chulainn said:

I'll never take anything from Zane Wrinkle. He is a great kid and teammate that I think the World of. I'd call him our glue guy as well! Since that is the case though, was my Mason Donald the glue guy for Kountze this year?

IYO, did the Coaches get their voting right in the 3A District Meeting last year?

I thought Sells played better defense and handled the ball better than Donald. So no.

I would have to go back and see what all the superlatives were for last year but just off the top of my head, Perrault should have been MVP.

[Cu Chulainn]

1 minute ago, AggiesAreWe said:

I thought Sells played better defense and handled the ball better than Donald. So no.

I would have to go back and see what all the superlatives were for last year but just off the top of my head, Perrault should have been MVP.

I appreciate you agreeing with not only on Whit deserving of COTY honors this year, but also on Perrault deserving MVP last year.

What about NCOTY going to Courts not Scales last year? (I even had Kountze folks messaging me and apologizing for that one.) If you have trouble answering that, let me know if you saw either or both of the Kountze/OF matchups last year?

Also, if you get a chance to look at last years picks, let me know if you even recognize some of those names you see as 1st Team All District picks? Why would EC (#1) and Orangefield (#2) be so misrepresented last year?

[AggiesAreWe]

17 minutes ago, Cu Chulainn said:

I appreciate you agreeing with not only on Whit deserving of COTY honors this year, but also on Perrault deserving MVP last year.

What about NCOTY going to Courts not Scales last year? (I even had Kountze folks messaging me and apologizing for that one.) If you have trouble answering that, let me know if you saw either or both of the Kountze/OF matchups last year?

Also, if you get a chance to look at last years picks, let me know if you even recognize some of those names you see as 1st Team All District picks? Why would EC (#1) and Orangefield (#2) be so misrepresented last year?

I went back and looked and I had Scales as my NCOTY.

As for the other all district picks, I recognized some names on there. Mostly seniors were picked last year for both 1st and 2nd teams.

[Cu Chulainn]

1 minute ago, AggiesAreWe said:

I went back and looked and I had Scales as my NCOTY.

As for the other all district picks, I recognized some names on there. Mostly seniors were picked last year for both 1st and 2nd teams.

I appreciate your honesty and the vote for my son.

Not saying you are saying this, but I am. I dont give a dern if they are a 19 year old senior or a 14 year old freshman, the best players in the district should go on the 1st and 2nd Team list and they should be placed on those lists according to their production, not how long they have been in the program or how it isnt fair that their 2-10 team didnt have anyone represented in the selections. This is Varsity Basketball, the best kids are named to the best spots and the awards should reflect that.

I have said it before, but these are kids and we have a moral obligation to get it right. Last years voting was an absolute joke and lost a lot of credibility for what happened in that room.

[72 Pinto]

24 minutes ago, Cu Chulainn said:

I appreciate your honesty and the vote for my son.

Not saying you are saying this, but I am. I dont give a dern if they are a 19 year old senior or a 14 year old freshman, the best players in the district should go on the 1st and 2nd Team list and they should be placed on those lists according to their production, not how long they have been in the program or how it isnt fair that their 2-10 team didnt have anyone represented in the selections. This is Varsity Basketball, the best kids are named to the best spots and the awards should reflect that.

I have said it before, but these are kids and we have a moral obligation to get it right. Last years voting was an absolute joke and lost a lot of credibility for what happened in that room.

I am confused why an arbitrary individual award that is non-monetary is such a big deal to you.  Everyone now thinks they should be recognized for every little thing they do.  How bout these kids just go play the game and have fun and not need constant reinforcement and ego boosting?  I promise they won't get that when they go to work.

Why do you believe the votes have gone differently than you believe they should?

[AggiesAreWe]

43 minutes ago, Cu Chulainn said:

I appreciate your honesty and the vote for my son.

Not saying you are saying this, but I am. I dont give a dern if they are a 19 year old senior or a 14 year old freshman, the best players in the district should go on the 1st and 2nd Team list and they should be placed on those lists according to their production, not how long they have been in the program or how it isnt fair that their 2-10 team didnt have anyone represented in the selections. This is Varsity Basketball, the best kids are named to the best spots and the awards should reflect that.

I have said it before, but these are kids and we have a moral obligation to get it right. Last years voting was an absolute joke and lost a lot of credibility for what happened in that room.

Let's make one thing perfectly clear. I have no vote, just an opinion. Like everyone. I honestly don't have any real issues with the all district teams. 

I also don't think it's a "travesty" when it comes to all district selections. They are what they are. Much bigger things in life to be concerned about.

People just can't take these type things personally. It's not worth getting worked up about.

[BEARCPA]

1 hour ago, 72 Pinto said:

I am confused why an arbitrary individual award that is non-monetary is such a big deal to you.  Everyone now thinks they should be recognized for every little thing they do.  How bout these kids just go play the game and have fun and not need constant reinforcement and ego boosting?  I promise they won't get that when they go to work.

Why do you believe the votes have gone differently than you believe they should?

Good post. I am extremely grateful that my parents were like Jamal Crawford’s parents during my playing days

 

[mfd814]

On 3/7/2024 at 7:58 AM, 72 Pinto said:

It doesn't matter what any of us think.  It's the district coaches' decision and they picked the best player on the best team so it can't be that egregious. 

I do think there should be some accountability with these votes, though.  These are public schools so the voting should be open to public record.  Maybe they could even do it at a place like Twin Peaks and people could present their case with film and stats.  Then we could see who voted for who without all the backwoods politicking. I think I would go to that all district meeting. 

They have had some meetings in public.  But they would Never want dads, moms, and pawpaws bringing video and flow charts to show why little johnny should get an award. 

the coaches bring stats and score books to the meeting.  They put up numbers for who they want for each award.  It's not back woods politicking.    

Ask your head coach who they thought should win those awards,  

[whsalum]

I know the all district selection argument has always been “it’s about recognizing the kids” which is true. Personally I think it should be recognition of the very best. A reward for hard work and performance. Selection of 20 all district players in a 7 team district waters down the award for the players who are actually deserving. Pick 5 players on 1st team and include them as the superlative players. Pick 5 on the 2nd team and you’ll actually start recognizing kids for their accomplishments again. Under no circumstance would I open the selection process to parents and slide shows and stats. You’d have lil Johnnys Little Dribbler game winning shot on the projector. JMO for what it’s worth as a fan.

[TxHoops]

2 minutes ago, whsalum said:

I know the all district selection argument has always been “it’s about recognizing the kids” which is true. Personally I think it should be recognition of the very best. A reward for hard work and performance. Selection of 20 all district players in a 7 team district waters down the award for the players who are actually deserving. Pick 5 players on 1st team and include them as the superlative players. Pick 5 on the 2nd team and you’ll actually start recognizing kids for their accomplishments again. Under no circumstance would I open the selection process to parents and slide shows and stats. You’d have lil Johnnys Little Dribbler game winning shot on the projector. JMO for what it’s worth as a fan.

The Enterprise continues to do this and that is why, in my opinion, it is the Gold standard (no pun intended). They manage to recognize 5 first team and 5 second team and they cover all classifications.  But as I know , it is what it is with these teams.  It’s nice for the kids.  But with OF, and I’m sure other top teams, all 5 starters either got a superlative or were first or second team.  If you include Honorable Mention, top 7 players got recognition.  It’s just watered down now, and is just how it’s going to be probably.  

[Coach 01]

Surprise surprise, somebody’s daddy is unhappy their kid don’t get the trophy. Couple weeks and we are still on this. Sells is far and away a better overall player, him getting the MVP was obvious. The award is voting on my coach without a kid in the race so Joub and Whitmire wouldn’t have voted. Watching the two kids play it isn’t hard to figure out why one kid got the votes and why the other didn’t.    As far as Newcomer goes, we are 14 months into this. If you want to put something on the wall in the den, I’ll send over the very basic certificate that was the award. It won’t be hard to open Microsoft PowerPoint and change the name. I can assure you, Hunter Courts and his family care a lot more about his team winning games than what 5 Coaches thought about him and what individual accolades he can brag on social media about..

[setxathlete14]

2 hours ago, Coach 01 said:

Surprise surprise, somebody’s daddy is unhappy their kid don’t get the trophy. Couple weeks and we are still on this. Sells is far and away a better overall player, him getting the MVP was obvious. The award is voting on my coach without a kid in the race so Joub and Whitmire wouldn’t have voted. Watching the two kids play it isn’t hard to figure out why one kid got the votes and why the other didn’t.    As far as Newcomer goes, we are 14 months into this. If you want to put something on the wall in the den, I’ll send over the very basic certificate that was the award. It won’t be hard to open Microsoft PowerPoint and change the name. I can assure you, Hunter Courts and his family care a lot more about his team winning games than what 5 Coaches thought about him and what individual accolades he can brag on social media about..

We live in a world where individual awards now mean more than team awards or success