Jasper to return to 5 day school week

[Dirty_but_Dazzling]

School District voted on Monday evening to return to a 5 day school week instead of the present 4 day week that was adopted in 2022.

It had been rumored in recent days that the decision was coming following the announcement that the Parnell Elementary School would return to a 5 day school week as part of a plan to turn the school's grades around under the leadership of a team that was brought in to address and improve academics. The move came after the district was forced to bring in a specialized team to address the failing scores of students within the school.

In recent days many people in the community had voiced opinions one way or the other. However, in the regular monthly meeting which had been called to address that issue and others, there was only one person who voiced his opinion and that was Aaron Weller, a 10 year veteran of the school who serves as teacher, coach and bus driver.

Weller said it's all about the students and that effective teachers result in success. He said that when considering the options that the board should realize how many teachers have been lost in the last year. Weller said a good example was a position of math teacher at the High School that had been vacant for some time and also the number of teachers who had left Jasper to teach somewhere else. Weller said he believed that returning to a 5 day school week would result in losing teachers.l

 

Weller said most of the faculty enjoyed a four day work week and that in his opinion it resulted in better teachers and atmosphere that was conducive with a good eduation.

Weller called on the board to allow Parnell to do it's thing while keep the rest of the campus on a four day per week schedule.

The motion to keep the four day work week was made by Eddie Hopkins and was seconded by Van Cammack. However, the measure failed and then a motion was made by board member Johnny Mecom and was seconded by Ira Bean, to return to a five day class week and that measure passed with Mecom, Bean, and Bruce Bevil along with Mark Durand voting for the issue and Hopkins, Cammack and Tiffany Porter voting against.

[SmashMouth]

I can only say this. The 4 day school week for 2 working parent families is a tough thing to sort out.

[LumRaiderFan]

3 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

I can only say this. The 4 day school week for 2 working parent families is a tough thing to sort out.

Agree, and especially tough on single moms with no support.

It's ridiculous, work 5 days like everyone else does.

[tvc184]

I wonder if the public had voiced concerns to the board members about the results or hardships of 4 days.

I am assuming that the issue had to be brought up from somewhere for there to be that much interest. Obviously most employees would rather be off for 3 days instead of 2 but does that help the students or the parents?

I have no clue but I don’t think it’s likely that this just floated down from the sky.

[CardinalBacker]

The Admins, Teachers, and Students are always for it... I mean, who wouldn't be?  Except it causes huge problems for working parents, worse testing scores, etc... 

The only caveat to that is IF teachers are willing to take a 20% cut in their pay, I'd reconsider.  

Educators collectively overestimate their value to the rest of society.  Always have, always will.  You don't work for the super, and you don't work for yourself.  You work for the public.  That's me, you, and anybody else that lives or owns property inside of a school district.  In what planet would an employee working a 187 day schedule while expecting 260 day pay decide that the number of days that they work should be dropped to 150 days per year?  It's laughable.  

[tvc184]

8 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

The Admins, Teachers, and Students are always for it... I mean, who wouldn't be?  Except it causes huge problems for working parents, worse testing scores, etc... 

The only caveat to that is IF teachers are willing to take a 20% cut in their pay, I'd reconsider.  

Educators collectively overestimate their value to the rest of society.  Always have, always will.  You don't work for the super, and you don't work for yourself.  You work for the public.  That's me, you, and anybody else that lives or owns property inside of a school district.  In what planet would an employee working a 187 day schedule while expecting 260 day pay decide that the number of days that they work should be dropped to 150 days per year?  It's laughable.  

Since they are salaried and not hourly, sure.

 

[tvc184]

11 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Agree, and especially tough on single moms with no support.

It's ridiculous, work 5 days like everyone else does.

For what it’s worth, I worked a 4 day week for 20 years.

It made a lot more sense in my job with 24 hours of hourly and mandatory coverage however as there benefits to the public and very little to no detriment or extremely little.

Unlike schools, no one had to schedule their time around my job. 

[CardinalBacker]

4 hours ago, tvc184 said:

For what it’s worth, I worked a 4 day week for 20 years.

It made a lot more sense in my job with 24 hours of hourly and mandatory coverage however as there benefits to the public and very little to no detriment or extremely little.

Unlike schools, no one had to schedule their time around my job. 

I know of a “business” that runs a split crew on 4/10s… one crew works mon-thur and the other works tue-Friday, then they switch schedules every week. It’s nice for the employees… you get a regularly scheduled four day weekend every other week. 
 

Except it also means that they have, at best, half a crew in the office every Monday and Friday, or 40% of the time. They don’t understand why people are unhappy with the fact that you can’t get a phone call returned, ever, because the days when they’re all there, they’re playing catch-up.  Boss is getting replaced as we speak, btw.  Word is that the new boss will be forced to return the crew to 5-8s if they want the gig. 
 

Some jobs (not jobs that require public interactions) DO work well with 4 day work weeks. A good rule of thumb is “if you have posted business hours, a four day week is a bad idea.”

[bullets13]

There are pros and cons to 4 and 5 days weeks.  I definitely understand the possible hardships that parents can face dealing with a 4 day week, but one does have to ask how they manage during summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, spring break, thanksgiving, and the various work days and school holidays throughout the year.  Our district has lost some good teachers to districts with 4 day weeks, and I would jump at the chance to try it.  Happier teachers are more effective teachers, and there’s always an increase in energy and morale around the school after a 3-day weekend.  It also saves the district money on transportation, food, electricity, water, etc.  I haven’t seen a lot of research on test scores, grades, etc, but my friends who work for 4-day districts haven’t seen any issues.  

[bullets13]

13 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

The Admins, Teachers, and Students are always for it... I mean, who wouldn't be?  Except it causes huge problems for working parents, worse testing scores, etc... 

The only caveat to that is IF teachers are willing to take a 20% cut in their pay, I'd reconsider.  

Educators collectively overestimate their value to the rest of society.  Always have, always will.  You don't work for the super, and you don't work for yourself.  You work for the public.  That's me, you, and anybody else that lives or owns property inside of a school district.  In what planet would an employee working a 187 day schedule while expecting 260 day pay decide that the number of days that they work should be dropped to 150 days per year?  It's laughable.  

You apparently don’t understand how it works, on more than one front.  We receive 187 days pay, prorated through the course of the year to ensure we receive a paycheck in the summer.  And districts are required to work a certain amount of minutes a year, with 4-day districts adding minutes to each day, working certain Fridays, and an extra week or two or three a year to make up the difference.  And you clearly underestimate the difficulty of the job, and the value a good teacher has in society.  Like a profession there are good ones and bad ones, but I don’t understand your attitude towards teachers at all.  

[LumRaiderFan]

5 hours ago, tvc184 said:

For what it’s worth, I worked a 4 day week for 20 years.

It made a lot more sense in my job with 24 hours of hourly and mandatory coverage however as there benefits to the public and very little to no detriment or extremely little.

Unlike schools, no one had to schedule their time around my job. 

Apples and oranges

[LumRaiderFan]

36 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

You apparently don’t understand how it works, on more than one front.  We receive 187 days pay, prorated through the course of the year to ensure we receive a paycheck in the summer.  And districts are required to work a certain amount of minutes a year, with 4-day districts adding minutes to each day, working certain Fridays, and an extra week or two or three a year to make up the difference.  And you clearly underestimate the difficulty of the job, and the value a good teacher has in society.  Like a profession there are good ones and bad ones, but I don’t understand your attitude towards teachers at all.  

And the folks that are pushing this are clearly underestimating the job of two working parents barely getting by or a single mother with no support.

Work five days a week like it has been forever, like everyone else.

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Apples and oranges

And I never suggested otherwise.

 I was commenting on “everyone else”. For some jobs, a 4 day week is just what the doctor ordered. 

[LumRaiderFan]

27 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

And I never suggested otherwise.

 I was commenting on “everyone else”. For some jobs, a 4 day week is just what the doctor ordered. 

OK, you got me, but we're talking about teachers here.

 

[CardinalBacker]

2 hours ago, bullets13 said:

You apparently don’t understand how it works, on more than one front.  We receive 187 days pay, prorated through the course of the year to ensure we receive a paycheck in the summer.  And districts are required to work a certain amount of minutes a year, with 4-day districts adding minutes to each day, working certain Fridays, and an extra week or two or three a year to make up the difference.  And you clearly underestimate the difficulty of the job, and the value a good teacher has in society.  Like a profession there are good ones and bad ones, but I don’t understand your attitude towards teachers at all.  

If your job can be accomplished in 150 days per year, it's a part time job and should be paid accordingly. 

I said what I said. 

[Box1]

17 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

The Admins, Teachers, and Students are always for it... I mean, who wouldn't be?  Except it causes huge problems for working parents, worse testing scores, etc... 

The only caveat to that is IF teachers are willing to take a 20% cut in their pay, I'd reconsider.  

Educators collectively overestimate their value to the rest of society.  Always have, always will.  You don't work for the super, and you don't work for yourself.  You work for the public.  That's me, you, and anybody else that lives or owns property inside of a school district.  In what planet would an employee working a 187 day schedule while expecting 260 day pay decide that the number of days that they work should be dropped to 150 days per year?  It's laughable.  

Hottest take of 2024 I've seen thus far.

[Box1]

It's comical reading responses to this from people who have no idea or understanding on how anything works.

As with anything else that you want to give your opinion on, do your homework (couldn't help myself) and come in with some legs to stand on. 

The rebuttal of "working parents", how do you handle Christmas break/Spring Break/Thanksgiving Break/SUMMER?

The removal of Friday doesn't mean the kids are losing time in the classroom, that time is made up by starting earlier and finishing later M-Th. 

People throwing the wages argument of "part time work deserves part time pay" are ignorant if you think teachers are swimming in it.

I can keep going but unless you're involved, you can't possibly understand. My wife is in year 12 at a lower socioeconomic school and to help with getting by with 3 kids I continue to work my 6-day a week job. Thanks for taking up my lunch break with your ignorance.

[bullets13]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

If your job can be accomplished in 150 days per year, it's a part time job and should be paid accordingly. 

I said what I said. 

you say lots of things, and are often wrong.  it's fine.

[bullets13]

4 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

And the folks that are pushing this are clearly underestimating the job of two working parents barely getting by or a single mother with no support.

Work five days a week like it has been forever, like everyone else.

At this point I probably know less people working standard 5-day work weeks than I do people working 4-day weeks, hybrid schedules, from home, etc.  how do these families get by during holiday breaks and summer?  How do they work around schools' varying schedules, that rarely if ever fit perfectly with the 8-4 or 9-5 workday?  They've managed to do so forever, and they're figuring out how to make it work in the districts who've already gone 4-day as well.  Some districts provide cheap or free child care on Fridays for families who can show they need it.  Churches in my community have offered to do this if we go to 4-day weeks.  There are options and ways to help out.  

[LumRaiderFan]

26 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

At this point I probably know less people working standard 5-day work weeks than I do people working 4-day weeks, hybrid schedules, from home, etc.  how do these families get by during holiday breaks and summer?  How do they work around schools' varying schedules, that rarely if ever fit perfectly with the 8-4 or 9-5 workday?  They've managed to do so forever, and they're figuring out how to make it work in the districts who've already gone 4-day as well.  Some districts provide cheap or free child care on Fridays for families who can show they need it.  Churches in my community have offered to do this if we go to 4-day weeks.  There are options and ways to help out.  

We need to quit making it about the teachers that want a lax schedule and make it about the kids.

I agree with CB, you want to knock a day off, take a 20% cut in pay, now there's a real savings for the ISD.

[SmashMouth]

1 hour ago, Box1 said:

The rebuttal of "working parents", how do you handle Christmas break/Spring Break/Thanksgiving Break/SUMMER?

You have to get someone to volunteer to watch your kids or pay for daycare during those limited times. That's for a limited time though. With the 4 Day system, childcare may have to be considered for 2 parent working families or single parent working families 52 weeks out of the year. It seems pretty advantageous for the teacher, understood. But the hardships it can put on a family's budget (especially in the current economic climate) can be very detrimental. Trying to get kids to focus an extra 90 minutes a day seems to be an issue too. And in poorer districts, some kids on free or reduced lunch just got one more chance to go hungry. Additionally, there are several studies that show that academic test scores falter with a 4 day school week.  I can see both sides, but I would side overwhelmingly with the traditional 5 day school week.

Most of the PROS of a shortened week help the district and the district employees

Most of the CONS are realized by the students and families:

So, are we trying to service the district/teachers or the students? We've had a 5 day week up to this point, after all.

[tvc184]

2 hours ago, Box1 said:

It's comical reading responses to this from people who have no idea or understanding on how anything works.

As with anything else that you want to give your opinion on, do your homework (couldn't help myself) and come in with some legs to stand on. 

The rebuttal of "working parents", how do you handle Christmas break/Spring Break/Thanksgiving Break/SUMMER?

The removal of Friday doesn't mean the kids are losing time in the classroom, that time is made up by starting earlier and finishing later M-Th. 

People throwing the wages argument of "part time work deserves part time pay" are ignorant if you think teachers are swimming in it.

I can keep going but unless you're involved, you can't possibly understand. My wife is in year 12 at a lower socioeconomic school and to help with getting by with 3 kids I continue to work my 6-day a week job. Thanks for taking up my lunch break with your ignorance.

Well, we have you here to educate us! 🙄

[thetragichippy]

Here is my cent and a half.....

I can only speak for me, but the wife and I both work. We used a daycare before he was in school and a couple hours in the afternoons when he was in school, until he was old enough to stay at home.  We hated summers because daycare went up because he was there more. I often thought if I had 3 kids, it would be cheaper for the wife to quit her job......Adding 52 (rounding up) full days to an already expensive bill could be devastating for some people.  Personally I like the 5 day school week, it mirrors most jobs they may get when they become adults. 

[tvc184]

4 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

If your job can be accomplished in 150 days per year, it's a part time job and should be paid accordingly. 

I said what I said. 

Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion on teacher salaries. 

They are essentially contract/salaried workers. They ask for a fee to educate children. That fee is not dependent on hours or days.

Let’s say you contract a cabinet builder to refurbish your kitchen. He gives you a price, tells you that he will be finished in 10 days and you accept it for $20,000. The contractor finishes in only 7 days. Do you pay him only $14,000 or 70% if the agreed on price because he was able to complete the job in less time? 

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, LumRaiderFan said:

We need to quit making it about the teachers that want a lax schedule and make it about the kids.

I agree with CB, you want to knock a day off, take a 20% cut in pay, now there's a real savings for the ISD.

 The common attitude from those outside of the field is that teachers should just deal with whatever wages and paltry conditions that are provided to them because "it should be about the kids."  Without quality teachers, the kids aren't going to get quality educations.  And more and more quality teachers are leaving education.   you and CB can make it out to be teachers being selfish or lazy or whatever, but the fact of the matter is fewer and fewer people are willing to work for what teachers make while dealing with what teachers deal with.  Districts are getting creative to keep teachers, and for smaller districts who can't afford to pay a decent wage, a 4-day week is just about the best incentive they can offer.  I guarantee you Jasper gained some really good teachers when they went to 4-day weeks, and I can also guarantee you that many of those teachers will leave now that Jasper isn't offering them something that they can't get in a better district with better pay.  Subsequently, y'all's talk about pay cuts is asinine.  As I stated, teachers in 4-day districts are working the same amount of time as before.  longer days, extra weeks.  you think TVC should make less money as a cop because he worked 4 10s instead of 5 8's? Not to mention all of the overtime he made in career, versus the hundreds of hours of unpaid OT that most teachers work yearly.  I knew going in that I wasn't going to get rich teaching, and I don't complain about my wages, but I'm also not going to sit back and listen to people insinuate that teachers aren't worth the meager pay they do get.  Especially when I know guys making 3x my salary sitting behind a console doing a job that a chimp could do.  And  no, I'm not bitter, I've passed up multiple opportunities to go make much more money in various fields because I love what I do.