Georgia Woman Dies From Delayed Emergency Medical Care — thanks to abortion ban

[Big girl]

17 hours ago, tvc184 said:

Let’s see, woman had a lawful abortion in another state.

 She had a “rare” complication, I am assuming after she returned home.

Going by the article posted by Big girl, the GA law allows abortions (quoting the article) “only applied to imminent and acute life-threatening emergencies and did not extend to chronic health conditions, even those that can become lethal in pregnancy”.

 Okay, is a rare complication that may cause death is considered “chronic health condition”? I was c reading the federal National Institutes of Health website and it mentioned diseases or conditions that last over three months such as emphysema, heart, disease, cancer, etc.

Perhaps this doctor mistook this emergency situation for the equivalent of a long term condition? 

The laws says that an abortion is allowed for life threatening emergencies. Did this doctor not spot the life threatening emergency? Apparently later he finally decided it was life threatening when it was too late.

It sounds like medical malpractice with a convenient alibi.

Uhhhh…. doctor, you messed up and killed a woman by waiting 20 hours for surgery. You either knew that it was life threatening and therefore exempt from the law and failed to act or you misdiagnosed it and did not think it was an emergency but rather thought it was “chronic” (how is a medical emergency from a treatment chronic). Feel free to choose either option.

 The law had nothing to do with this botched medical treatment and disaster. The doctor and his medical professional colleagues are merely looking for a scapegoat. 

This is an example. A woman has diabetes and HTN before her pregnancy. If complications arise because of her chronic condition, the abortion is illegal.

If a woman develops preeclampsia ( high blood pressure that can cause status epilepticus) because of the pregnancy, and something life threatening occurs, the doctor can intervene

[tvc184]

2 hours ago, Big girl said:

This is an example. A woman has diabetes and HTN before her pregnancy. If complications arise because of her chronic condition, the abortion is illegal.

If a woman develops preeclampsia ( high blood pressure that can cause status epilepticus) because of the pregnancy, and something life threatening occurs, the doctor can intervene

Sure, that’s the definition or examples of chronic vs. an emergency.

 This lady didn’t have diabetes or any other chronic condition or disease.

From the article that you posted:

”Thurman became septic in the hospital due to excess tissue in her uterus that did not shed from her body, causing a serious infection. Thurman needed a dilation and curettage, or D&C, a procedure in which tissue is removed from inside the uterus.”

Septicemia is a life threatening condition. It requires emergency intervention. Apparently this doctor didn’t think it was life threatening as that intervention is an allowed under the GA law. Oh wait, too late in the game he decided that it was life threatening and he performed the D/C…. after waiting 20 hours. 

Did this doctor think that he had an alibi by claiming that septicemia after  a medical procedure was chronic?

 No, the doctor messed up and his political cronies and medical professionals came to his aid by claiming that the law killed her.

 You’re a medical professional (I assume). If a person came into an emergency room reporting problems after recent abortion or any other medical procedure and the diagnosis was septicemia, would that have been seen as a chronic condition? 

[Big girl]

19 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

Sure, that’s the definition or examples of chronic vs. an emergency.

 This lady didn’t have diabetes or any other chronic condition or disease.

From the article that you posted:

”Thurman became septic in the hospital due to excess tissue in her uterus that did not shed from her body, causing a serious infection. Thurman needed a dilation and curettage, or D&C, a procedure in which tissue is removed from inside the uterus.”

Septicemia is a life threatening condition. It requires emergency intervention. Apparently this doctor didn’t think it was life threatening as that intervention is an allowed under the GA law. Oh wait, too late in the game he decided that it was life threatening and he performed the D/C…. after waiting 20 hours. 

Did this doctor think that he had an alibi by claiming that septicemia after  a medical procedure was chronic?

 No, the doctor messed up and his political cronies and medical professionals came to his aid by claiming that the law killed her.

 You’re a medical professional (I assume). If a person came into an emergency room reporting problems after recent abortion or any other medical procedure and the diagnosis was septicemia, would that have been seen as a chronic condition? 

In my opinion no, and I would've treated her, but doctors say that is left up to interpretation so they are afraid of going to prison. It's a sad situation

[baddog]

Was she black?

[Big girl]

2 hours ago, baddog said:

Was she black?

Why?

[baddog]

1 hour ago, Big girl said:

Why?

Exactly…..kinda like the freakin Haitians. Just trying to give you an out and wipe the egg off your face.

[Separation Scientist]

And how many babies survive abortions? 

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[SmashMouth]

On 9/16/2024 at 9:57 PM, HuntersLaptop2028 said:

This article covers the story of Amber Nicole Thurman, a woman who died of infection shortly after Georgia's 6 week abortion ban went into effect. Thurman, seeking an abortion, hoped a block of the ban would happen to allow her to have an abortion within the state, but in the 9th week she made the decision to travel to North Carolina for a surgical abortion. Due to traffic on the way to the appointment, the NC clinic was only able to offer Thurman mifepristone and misoprostol "and instructed [her] to go to the emergency room if complications developed".

On Aug 18. 2022 Thurman vomited blood and passed out at home. She was taken to a hospital in which an ultrasound showed possible tissue remaining in her uterus, and noted an odor during her pelvic exam. Instead of performing the criminalized procedure, doctors continued Thurman on an IV drip and antibiotics. 17 hours after arriving, her condition deteriorating, Thurman was taken into the operating room. During abdominal surgery Thurman's heart stopped. 

Thurman's mother recalls her daughter's last words to her: “Promise me you’ll take care of my son.”

A maternal mortality review committee concluded that Thurman being provided a surgical abortion earlier would have provided "good chance" of preventing her death.

Attorneys representing the state of Georgia have called attempts to block the ban “hyperbolic fear mongering".
 

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On 9/17/2024 at 8:59 AM, Big girl said:

Shameful

First off, this is a tragic ending you a young woman’s life. My heart goes out to her family & friends.

However, there are aspects to her story that we don’t know the answer to and certainly some aspects that we can’t ignore.

What we don’t know: What was the reason for the abortion (other than to end an innocent life)? Was it rape/incest/health reasons which many preach as an acceptable reason although statistics show this is less than 5% of abortion cases combined? Was it for mere birth control after the fact which comprises the other 95+% of reasons for an abortion? If it was the latter, which is an overwhelming probability, then you can possibly say that poor choices in birth control played a part in this young woman.

 What we do know: Georgia’s pro-life heartbeat act was not responsible for Thurman’s death. That is because the law allows physicians to intervene in cases of medical emergencies or if the preborn child has no detectable heartbeat. Both of these clearly applied in Thurman’s case. Furthermore, a D&C to remove the remains of an unborn child that has died is not an abortion and is not criminalized in Georgia.

In this case, Thurman’s death was caused by chemical-abortion pills – not always a safe alternative – just ask Amber Nicole Thurman. The FDA’s own labeling states that one in 25 women will have to visit the emergency room after taking mifepristone which is what they gave her according to Silly Willy. His post was also quoted saying “Due to traffic on the way to the appointment, the NC clinic was only able to offer Thurman mifepristone and misoprostol "and instructed [her] to go to the emergency room if complications developed". Silly Willy’s post also states once she went to the emergency room after passing out at home, “doctors continued Thurman on an IV drip and antibiotics. 17 hours after arriving, her condition deteriorating, Thurman was taken into the operating room”. So they waited 17 hours then finally decided to do surgery and she died.

Traffic? Really? So Ms. Thurman didn’t make it to the appointment on time to end an inconvenient pregnancy, wasn’t willing to come back another day for a surgical abortion, was given unsafe chemical abortion pills to end her unborn baby’s life instead, was dismissed by the abortion clinic after the procedure to go to the emergency room if it didn’t work out, decides to go to the ER as instructed and doesn’t get treated until it’s too late and dies, and this is all trying to be blamed on Georgia’s abortion ban?

Sounds like poor choices, poor planning and poor medical care are more likely the reason. A comedy of errors, not the abortion ban is the reason she’s dead, starting with her own poor choices which just snowballed from there.

Once again, tragic. A horrible end to a young woman’s poor choices.
 

[Big girl]

3 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

 

First off, this is a tragic ending you a young woman’s life. My heart goes out to her family & friends.

However, there are aspects to her story that we don’t know the answer to and certainly some aspects that we can’t ignore.

What we don’t know: What was the reason for the abortion (other than to end an innocent life)? Was it rape/incest/health reasons which many preach as an acceptable reason although statistics show this is less than 5% of abortion cases combined? Was it for mere birth control after the fact which comprises the other 95+% of reasons for an abortion? If it was the latter, which is an overwhelming probability, then you can possibly say that poor choices in birth control played a part in this young woman.

 What we do know: Georgia’s pro-life heartbeat act was not responsible for Thurman’s death. That is because the law allows physicians to intervene in cases of medical emergencies or if the preborn child has no detectable heartbeat. Both of these clearly applied in Thurman’s case. Furthermore, a D&C to remove the remains of an unborn child that has died is not an abortion and is not criminalized in Georgia.

In this case, Thurman’s death was caused by chemical-abortion pills – not always a safe alternative – just ask Amber Nicole Thurman. The FDA’s own labeling states that one in 25 women will have to visit the emergency room after taking mifepristone which is what they gave her according to Silly Willy. His post was also quoted saying “Due to traffic on the way to the appointment, the NC clinic was only able to offer Thurman mifepristone and misoprostol "and instructed [her] to go to the emergency room if complications developed". Silly Willy’s post also states once she went to the emergency room after passing out at home, “doctors continued Thurman on an IV drip and antibiotics. 17 hours after arriving, her condition deteriorating, Thurman was taken into the operating room”. So they waited 17 hours then finally decided to do surgery and she died.

Traffic? Really? So Ms. Thurman didn’t make it to the appointment on time to end an inconvenient pregnancy, wasn’t willing to come back another day for a surgical abortion, was given unsafe chemical abortion pills to end her unborn baby’s life instead, was dismissed by the abortion clinic after the procedure to go to the emergency room if it didn’t work out, decides to go to the ER as instructed and doesn’t get treated until it’s too late and dies, and this is all trying to be blamed on Georgia’s abortion ban?

Sounds like poor choices, poor planning and poor medical care are more likely the reason. A comedy of errors, not the abortion ban is the reason she’s dead, starting with her own poor choices which just snowballed from there.

Once again, tragic. A horrible end to a young woman’s poor choices.
 

Only parts of the child was left in her. It was an incomplete abortion. 

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The procedure would also be allowed when a fetus is deemed “medically futile.”

If a physician violates the law, they risk losing their license. They could also face up to a decade in prison.

It’s the combination of the vague wording and high personal stakes for the medical providers that create a situation where a patient like Thurman can fall through the cracks, said Greer Donley, an associate professor of law at the University of Pittsburgh who is a national expert on abortion.

“They’re afraid that if they act too quickly, they could lose their freedom, their vocation, everything – like the stakes are exceptionally high,” Donley said. “And so, you have to understand when you think about the vague laws, how you would act, how any rational person would act when those are the stakes of trying to understand vague laws.”

[HuntersLaptop2028]

27 minutes ago, Big girl said:

Only parts of the child was left in her. It was an incomplete abortion. 

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The procedure would also be allowed when a fetus is deemed “medically futile.”

If a physician violates the law, they risk losing their license. They could also face up to a decade in prison.

It’s the combination of the vague wording and high personal stakes for the medical providers that create a situation where a patient like Thurman can fall through the cracks, said Greer Donley, an associate professor of law at the University of Pittsburgh who is a national expert on abortion.

“They’re afraid that if they act too quickly, they could lose their freedom, their vocation, everything – like the stakes are exceptionally high,” Donley said. “And so, you have to understand when you think about the vague laws, how you would act, how any rational person would act when those are the stakes of trying to understand vague laws.”

I’ve decided it’s really not worth the brain damage of debating women’s healthcare, with old men suffering from erectile dysfunction. 

They don’t care, until it impacts their daughter or granddaughter

[SmashMouth]

26 minutes ago, HuntersLaptop2028 said:

I’ve decided it’s really not worth the brain damage of debating women’s healthcare, with 1. old men suffering from erectile dysfunction. 

They don’t care, 2. until it impacts their daughter or granddaughter

1. I take these badass pills for that. Strong like bull!

2. It has. And I do care. It doesn't change the facts in this particular case.

[SmashMouth]

1 hour ago, Big girl said:

Only parts of the child was left in her. It was an incomplete abortion. 

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The procedure would also be allowed when a fetus is deemed “medically futile.”

If a physician violates the law, they risk losing their license. They could also face up to a decade in prison.

It’s the combination of the vague wording and high personal stakes for the medical providers that create a situation where a patient like Thurman can fall through the cracks, said Greer Donley, an associate professor of law at the University of Pittsburgh who is a national expert on abortion.

“They’re afraid that if they act too quickly, they could lose their freedom, their vocation, everything – like the stakes are exceptionally high,” Donley said. “And so, you have to understand when you think about the vague laws, how you would act, how any rational person would act when those are the stakes of trying to understand vague laws.”

If there was no detectable fetal heartbeat (there wasn't), and the mother's life was at risk (it was) then the ER should have done a D&C immediately and there would have been no repercussions. They took nearly 20 hours to do that. That's on them. The law didn't cause it. Amber's poor decisions and the ER's ineptitude killed the young woman. Paint it however you want, those are facts.

[Big girl]

On 9/24/2024 at 3:01 PM, SmashMouth said:

If there was no detectable fetal heartbeat (there wasn't), and the mother's life was at risk (it was) then the ER should have done a D&C immediately and there would have been no repercussions. They took nearly 20 hours to do that. That's on them. The law didn't cause it. Amber's poor decisions and the ER's ineptitude killed the young woman. Paint it however you want, those are facts.

Was her life in imminent danger, initially? That was their dilemma.

Georgia’s law allows for an abortion to be performed when there is a “medical emergency,” but representatives of the medical community have cautioned for years that the law’s wording is unclear and would cause doctors to delay care until the patient is in an obvious crisis.

[SmashMouth]

17 minutes ago, Big girl said:

Was her life in imminent danger, initially? That was their dilemma.

Georgia’s law allows for an abortion to be performed when there is a “medical emergency,” but representatives of the medical community have cautioned for years that the law’s wording is unclear and would cause doctors to delay care until the patient is in an obvious crisis.

It's not an abortion if there is no fetal heartbeat - they could've performed the procedure on that alone. Additionally, she passed out and was vomiting blood. In light of her symptoms alone, they could've performed the procedure.

Instead, you have to of these issues occurring at the same time. Once again, they could've performed the procedure legally. 

[Big girl]

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[Big girl]

On 9/26/2024 at 11:14 AM, SmashMouth said:

It's not an abortion if there is no fetal heartbeat - they could've performed the procedure on that alone. Additionally, she passed out and was vomiting blood. In light of her symptoms alone, they could've performed the procedure.

Instead, you have to of these issues occurring at the same time. Once again, they could've performed the procedure legally. 

Vomiting blood doesn't mean that death is imminent. I personally would've performed the D&C, but I am not a doctor so I don't know their thoughts. They know more than I do.

[SmashMouth]

1 hour ago, Big girl said:

Vomiting blood doesn't mean that death is imminent. I personally would've performed the D&C, but I am not a doctor so I don't know their thoughts. They know more than I do.

Quoting PBS and saying you’re not a doctor is weak. Follow the law. Simply from there being no heartbeat alone, they could have performed the procedure. Go ahead and say it; they were at fault. It doesn’t matter what they were thinking. They have a Hippocratic oath to follow.

[Big girl]

16 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

Quoting PBS and saying you’re not a doctor is weak. Follow the law. Simply from there being no heartbeat alone, they could have performed the procedure. Go ahead and say it; they were at fault. It doesn’t matter what they were thinking. They have a Hippocratic oath to follow.

The fact that a doctor has to think about if something is illegal before rendering care is asinine imo

[SmashMouth]

12 minutes ago, Big girl said:

The fact that a doctor has to think about if something is illegal before rendering care is asinine imo

Doctors make that choice on a daily basis, not just with abortion cases.  The fact that a doctor made a clear choice to let a poor black girl suffer til she died is what is asinine. The fact that a promiscuous girl was using abortion as birth control to kill a baby is asinine. The fact that “traffic” made her choose chemical abortion on the spot without considering the risks is asinine.
 

But do you know what is most asinine? The fact that you won’t admit to any fault other than the anti-abortion law in Georgia for the girl’s death. And the law is the one thing that was there to protect her. It allowed her to have a procedure to make her well despite her poor choices and the failings of the ER. 

[baddog]

23 minutes ago, Big girl said:

The fact that a doctor has to think about if something is illegal before rendering care is asinine imo

You’re trying to split hairs here. No one would come after the doctor if what he is doing is attempting to save a life, like Smashmouth already explained. I believe it’s for the good that ANYONE takes a step back pondering whether or not to take a fetal life.

Do you know anyone who had a miscarriage?

[mat]

This case is a distracting and diverting scenario. Abortion supporters use this type of scenario for debate, along with rape, incest, etc., to support women’s abortion rights as a whole. Or as it is stated lately by the media, “women’s reproductive rights”.

[SmashMouth]

40 minutes ago, mat said:

This case is a distracting and diverting scenario. Abortion supporters use this type of scenario for debate, along with rape, incest, etc., to support women’s abortion rights as a whole. Or as it is stated lately by the media, “women’s reproductive rights”.

You are correct sir. Over 95% abortions are out of convenience. Less than 5% are for rape, incest, or medical reasons and that is a fact.

[skipmeister]

With all due respect to everyone, I do not support abortion. I do not condone killing a human being. Ms. Thurman's death would have been prevented if, she should have never gotten pregnant 🤰. She knowingly had health problems. Ms. Thurman should either have either been using protection or abstain from sexual activity. She should take responsibility for her own health. We shouldn't blame the abortion ban for stuff like that. Ms. Thurman made a decision to travel in another state where abortion is legal to get pills 💊 to terminate a pregnancy. People should live with the decisions they make!