Right99JOH Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 53 minutes ago, VPfan2017 said: All i think that is happening is some fall out with some of the kids because of jeffs departure. Nothing at all to do with dubois, or the other coaches. Think its strictly the change with jeff leaving, because i know some of the kids said they wont play for anyone but Jeff, and if thats their mindset no amount of trying to get buy in from the new coach is going to work. Those young men are tired of that offense, period. They are tired of the constant grind of run blocking. They are tired of getting beat up at RB. They are tired of the same-ol-same-ol. There needs to be some energy injected into the program!
VPfan2017 Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 45 minutes ago, Right99JOH said: Those young men are tired of that offense, period. They are tired of the constant grind of run blocking. They are tired of getting beat up at RB. They are tired of the same-ol-same-ol. There needs to be some energy injected into the program! Might be the case; it might not be. Regardless of offensive system the grind will be the same. “Tired of getting beat up at rb”, as if they wont get beat up at rb, or receiver in a spread style system. Football is a grind regardless of system. I believe the coaches will get it turned around and things will improve, numbers will go up, and things will settle down.
SmashMouth Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 2 hours ago, Right99JOH said: I'd be lying if I gave you an exact number, but from the eye test... remembering what the sidelines looked like when Mathews was HC, Mathews had better numbers. 5 hours ago, Right99JOH said: My less than 2 cent take is that Vidor football needs excitement. Needs change.... for players, fans, community, etc. All these kiddos that play for Vidor see other teams from little league to the pros that strive to be a balanced offense...50/50 (run/pass) (or very close to being 50/50). Vidor is 99.9/0.01 (run/pass). Does that mean the slot-t has to go away completely?.... Nope.... Just be innovative. Be creative. Right. So if the numbers were better when Mathews was there, and they were running the old misdirection ground plays as they are now, then the need for excitement from a newly revamped offense might not be the key. I don't think a little freshness would hurt, but I don't thinks it's the only answer. For most years, Vidor has only had so many tools in the toolbox - that hasn't changed much year in and year out. The key to a successful program is 3 fold: A good coach that can get kids & community to buy-in (possibly the most important tenet) Players with enough athleticism to be able to learn & execute whatever scheme the coach comes up with Parents & community to back the coach & his program Changing out the offensive scheme wouldn't hurt, but it's honestly not what's holding Vidor back. Split Down The Bayou and VPfan2017 1 1
VPfan2017 Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 5 minutes ago, SmashMouth said: Right. So if the numbers were better when Mathews was there, and they were running the old misdirection ground plays as they are now, then the need for excitement from a newly revamped offense might not be the key. I don't think a little freshness would hurt, but I don't thinks it's the only answer. For most years, Vidor has only had so many tools in the toolbox - that hasn't changed much year in and year out. The key to a successful program is 3 fold: A good coach that can get kids & community to buy-in (possibly the most important tenet) Players with enough athleticism to be able to learn & execute whatever scheme the coach comes up with Parents & community to back the coach & his program Changing out the offensive scheme wouldn't hurt, but it's honestly not what's holding Vidor back. Agree with every point you make. Freshness wouldnt hurt, but buy in is important. Replacing jeff was going to be an uphill battle. i dont think alot of people realize what jeff was to vidor athletics, and how hard replacing him would be.. If jeff wanted to he could run for mayor and win, thats just how well liked he is by the community, and dubois has to find a way to win the support of the kids and community. Dubois is nice as can be, he just has to find a way to get support.
Right99JOH Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 23 minutes ago, SmashMouth said: Right. So if the numbers were better when Mathews was there, and they were running the old misdirection ground plays as they are now, then the need for excitement from a newly revamped offense might not be the key. I don't think a little freshness would hurt, but I don't thinks it's the only answer. For most years, Vidor has only had so many tools in the toolbox - that hasn't changed much year in and year out. The key to a successful program is 3 fold: A good coach that can get kids & community to buy-in (possibly the most important tenet) Players with enough athleticism to be able to learn & execute whatever scheme the coach comes up with Parents & community to back the coach & his program Changing out the offensive scheme wouldn't hurt, but it's honestly not what's holding Vidor back. I agree and disagree. I agree that a total new offense might not be the key, but a tweaking, adding new wrinkles to current offense can't hurt. As far as the talent year in year out.... Vidor is never going to be loaded with talent or a juggernaut on offense or defense. But Vidor does have kids that are very capable or throwing and catching...yes. The people of Vidor (players included) are not wanting a team that throws 25-30 times a game. They want a team that passes 8-12, 15 times a game. Give opposing defenses something else to worry about. The Vidor football faithful welcome a change. Welcome fresh faces. Welcome new mentality.
VPfan2017 Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 2 minutes ago, Right99JOH said: I agree and disagree. I agree that a total new offense might not be the key, but a tweaking, adding new wrinkles to current offense can't hurt. As far as the talent year in year out.... Vidor is never going to be loaded with talent or a juggernaut on offense or defense. But Vidor does have kids that are very capable or throwing and catching. The people of Vidor (players included) are not wanting a team that throws 25-30 times a game. They want a team that passes 8-12, 15 times a game. Give opposing defenses something else to worry about. The Vidor football faithful welcome a change. Welcome fresh faces. Welcome new mentality. I agree with the passing idealogy. Give us a dozen or so passes a game. Open the playbook up and not be so predictable. throwback screens, short outs, curls and slants, and throw some deep crossing routes in the mix. Diversify the passing attack and let it compliment the running game
Right99JOH Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 38 minutes ago, VPfan2017 said: Might be the case; it might not be. Regardless of offensive system the grind will be the same. “Tired of getting beat up at rb”, as if they wont get beat up at rb, or receiver in a spread style system. Football is a grind regardless of system. I believe the coaches will get it turned around and things will improve, numbers will go up, and things will settle down. Yes "tired of getting beat up at RB"... It's a different tackle when you're tackled in space by a corner or safety than being tackled by 3, 4, 5 linemen and LBs. Depending on the coverage its easier on WRs to run off a corner or safety than having to be down in the mix blocking.
VPfan2017 Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 1 hour ago, Right99JOH said: Yes "tired of getting beat up at RB"... It's a different tackle when you're tackled in space by a corner or safety than being tackled by 3, 4, 5 linemen and LBs. Depending on the coverage its easier on WRs to run off a corner or safety than having to be down in the mix blocking. Makes since but running between the tackles will result in the same thing tho, idk i guess we just look at this differently lol im all for some new schemes and new styles, just need to work it in somehow
Guitar Man Posted October 8 Report Posted October 8 Regardless of the offense, kids need a reason or purpose to play football. Normally, for most kids, football is something they genuinely enjoy playing, because most players won’t be suiting up on Saturdays. At the end of the day, the most successful teams have kids and coaches that genuinely love the game and get joy and fulfillment playing it. Vidor’s two current biggest issues are the lack of appeal to play the game and a lack of community support. The offense has been the same for years, and Mathews did a great job of getting the kids and community behind his teams year in and year out. Vidor’s whole identity was being a team you hated to play because you knew you were in for a long physical night. That made the game fun for the kids who played, and they took a lot of pride in it. Currently, I would argue that the toxic attitude of the community towards the offense and Dubois in general is the biggest thorn in the team’s side. The need for instant gratification from fans is what is fueling it all. When the players go home or out in the community and hear: how bad the offense is, how bad the defense is, or how bad the coaching is, the players will begin to lose pride in the program, and the game is no longer fun. This leads to discipline issues and players quitting. Vidor has lost their identity and Dubois and the offensive scheme isn’t the culprit. The Vidor community needs to leave their objections of who they hired at the door and let the man work if they wanna be successful in the future. TxHoops and VPfan2017 1 1
Right99JOH Posted October 8 Report Posted October 8 14 hours ago, VPfan2017 said: Makes since but running between the tackles will result in the same thing tho, idk i guess we just look at this differently lol im all for some new schemes and new styles, just need to work it in somehow The thought behind my post was getting people out of the box. Right now, teams stack with the box with 8, 9+ people. Having 2, 3 WRs spread-out, motion a RB out of the backfield... make the defense have to spread out.
VPfan2017 Posted October 8 Report Posted October 8 3 hours ago, Right99JOH said: The thought behind my post was getting people out of the box. Right now, teams stack with the box with 8, 9+ people. Having 2, 3 WRs spread-out, motion a RB out of the backfield... make the defense have to spread out. I fully agree, agreed with it in the post after, different formations will also cause hesitation so backers cant just shoot a and b gaps and just blow plays up before they have a chance to develop
VPfan2017 Posted October 8 Report Posted October 8 13 hours ago, Guitar Man said: Regardless of the offense, kids need a reason or purpose to play football. Normally, for most kids, football is something they genuinely enjoy playing, because most players won’t be suiting up on Saturdays. At the end of the day, the most successful teams have kids and coaches that genuinely love the game and get joy and fulfillment playing it. Vidor’s two current biggest issues are the lack of appeal to play the game and a lack of community support. The offense has been the same for years, and Mathews did a great job of getting the kids and community behind his teams year in and year out. Vidor’s whole identity was being a team you hated to play because you knew you were in for a long physical night. That made the game fun for the kids who played, and they took a lot of pride in it. Currently, I would argue that the toxic attitude of the community towards the offense and Dubois in general is the biggest thorn in the team’s side. The need for instant gratification from fans is what is fueling it all. When the players go home or out in the community and hear: how bad the offense is, how bad the defense is, or how bad the coaching is, the players will begin to lose pride in the program, and the game is no longer fun. This leads to discipline issues and players quitting. Vidor has lost their identity and Dubois and the offensive scheme isn’t the culprit. The Vidor community needs to leave their objections of who they hired at the door and let the man work if they wanna be successful in the future. Couldnt have said it any better sir. Dubois needs to find a way to get community and player buy in and let the rest work itself out
Right99JOH Posted October 8 Report Posted October 8 13 hours ago, Guitar Man said: Regardless of the offense, kids need a reason or purpose to play football. Normally, for most kids, football is something they genuinely enjoy playing, because most players won’t be suiting up on Saturdays. At the end of the day, the most successful teams have kids and coaches that genuinely love the game and get joy and fulfillment playing it. Vidor’s two current biggest issues are the lack of appeal to play the game and a lack of community support. The offense has been the same for years, and Mathews did a great job of getting the kids and community behind his teams year in and year out. Vidor’s whole identity was being a team you hated to play because you knew you were in for a long physical night. That made the game fun for the kids who played, and they took a lot of pride in it. Currently, I would argue that the toxic attitude of the community towards the offense and Dubois in general is the biggest thorn in the team’s side. The need for instant gratification from fans is what is fueling it all. When the players go home or out in the community and hear: how bad the offense is, how bad the defense is, or how bad the coaching is, the players will begin to lose pride in the program, and the game is no longer fun. This leads to discipline issues and players quitting. Vidor has lost their identity and Dubois and the offensive scheme isn’t the culprit. The Vidor community needs to leave their objections of who they hired at the door and let the man work if they wanna be successful in the future. The rumblings of a stagnant offense have been around for a long time. Started a few years before Coach Mathews retired. The rumblings were masked cause of how liked Coach Mathews was and is. As far as the community being toxic or kids hearing how bad it is.... That is false. People are still showing up on Friday nights to watch football. Kids are still suiting up to play on Friday nights. People have not lined the halls of a school board meeting demanding coaches be fired. People are not putting up signs in their front yards saying fire coaches.... etc. All people are wanting is some kind of change... and when is that such a bad thing?!?! Kids aren't hearing how bad the team is from supporters... they hear that on social media from other kids in different schools. Kids are smart enough to know that they are behind the times when it comes to the offensive scheme. Kids watch other programs and what they do on offense and wonder why they can't do that?!?!? Why can't we practice passing plays?!?!? Etc... and after a while kids do get fed up and say screw it, I'm not playing football anymore... IT IS NOT FUN running the same 3, 4, 5 plays. You are right when you say Vidor has lost their identity and I do not believe Dubois is the coach to bring that identity back. Many, many, many years ago the great Coach Dan Hooks was interviewed before a Vidor game... can't remember his exact words but it was something along the lines of Vidor is going to punch you in the mouth repeatedly and you'll know when the game is over that you played Vidor... Vidor went on to beat WO-S that night in Vidor. Vidor needs that coach that will lite a fire under your or lite your a$$ up for messing up. Vidor needs that coach that will go to absolute war with you. Vidor needs change!
Guitar Man Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 21 hours ago, Right99JOH said: IT IS NOT FUN running the same 3, 4, 5 plays. Vidor attempted to throw multiple times in the BC game, but BCs defense swarmed the backfield most of the time before the QB could roll out. Applying pressure to opposing QBs has been BCs biggest strength all year, and HJ is about to understand that Friday. That group of freshman that Vidor has coming up is pretty good (One is currently on varsity). Vidor would be wise to develop a new identity with those dudes. Bigger things are on the horizon for V town. Let Dubois work.
Right99JOH Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 12 minutes ago, Guitar Man said: Vidor attempted to throw multiple times in the BC game, but BCs defense swarmed the backfield most of the time before the QB could roll out. Applying pressure to opposing QBs has been BCs biggest strength all year, and HJ is about to understand that Friday. That group of freshman that Vidor has coming up is pretty good (One is currently on varsity). Vidor would be wise to develop a new identity with those dudes. Bigger things are on the horizon for V town. Let Dubois work. You know how many times Vidor attempts to throw during practice?!?!... Less than the multiple times they threw against BC. You are correct that the group of freshmen in Vidor will be pretty dang good, but that talent will be wasted and a lot of talent after them will be wasted by the current HC. Dubois is not the right fit for Vidor. He does not inspire. His players do not play harder for him. Him and his offensive philosophy need to either change or go.
Reagan Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 On 10/7/2024 at 5:43 PM, VPfan2017 said: Makes since but running between the tackles will result in the same thing tho, idk i guess we just look at this differently lol im all for some new schemes and new styles, just need to work it in somehow You think if Vidor had Bellville's coach or Liberty Hill's coach we'd be having this discussion concerning the Slot-t and student participation?
Right99JOH Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 16 minutes ago, Reagan said: You think if Vidor had Bellville's coach or Liberty Hill's coach we'd be having this discussion concerning the Slot-t and student participation? Success breeds success! Thats all I'll say. Reagan 1
VPfan2017 Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 1 hour ago, Reagan said: You think if Vidor had Bellville's coach or Liberty Hill's coach we'd be having this discussion concerning the Slot-t and student participation? Yes i do. Because like i said, ive heard it from players who said they will only play for jeff, nobody else. Which in my opinion is quite stupid that u wont even consider giving the new coach a chance, but when ur dealing with kids thats the reality in some situations
FALCONS2026 Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 4 hours ago, Right99JOH said: You know how many times Vidor attempts to throw during practice?!?!... Less than the multiple times they threw against BC. You are correct that the group of freshmen in Vidor will be pretty dang good, but that talent will be wasted and a lot of talent after them will be wasted by the current HC. Dubois is not the right fit for Vidor. He does not inspire. His players do not play harder for him. Him and his offensive philosophy need to either change or go. Are the Vidor Freshmen 5-0?
Right99JOH Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 16 minutes ago, FALCONS2026 said: Are the Vidor Freshmen 5-0? I believe so but their offense is not the same as Varsity.... as in the run the slot-t but their coaches are more creative and throw out of the slot-t MUCH MUCH more than varsity. Also, not every pass play called is a roll out by the QB.
VPfan2017 Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 23 minutes ago, Right99JOH said: I believe so but their offense is not the same as Varsity.... as in the run the slot-t but their coaches are more creative and throw out of the slot-t MUCH MUCH more than varsity. Also, not every pass play called is a roll out by the QB. Yeah the freshman are fun to watch. Sucks i cant make it tomorrow /: I figure most of them will be starting on varsity next year. No offense meant to anyone but i still believe dubois is handicapped by personnel this year. I just dont think the horses are there which is limiting his playcalling.. I do think he could do better at inspiring, and getting participation but thats yet to be seen in my opinion He is at all the freshman games so he knows whats going on with the group. Ill hold my wanting to change coaches until the end of next year.. See what kind of product he is able to field with one of the most talented groups to come through vidor in a while.. Whatever happens happens this year, its been said by quite a few people that this year we were going to be down, so i do not think the fault lies with just dubois. Think its just a perfect storm of being down, Jeff leaving, and dubois trying to learn how to get his kids to play hard, and increase participation. Just be patient, see what happens over the next year or two and see if the results are different because i really think there is a plan in place for this group to be the change that alot of people want. So let us vidor fans be patient and see what happens with them.
Right99JOH Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 11 minutes ago, VPfan2017 said: Yeah the freshman are fun to watch. Sucks i cant make it tomorrow /: I figure most of them will be starting on varsity next year. No offense meant to anyone but i still believe dubois is handicapped by personnel this year. I just dont think the horses are there which is limiting his playcalling.. I do think he could do better at inspiring, and getting participation but thats yet to be seen in my opinion He is at all the freshman games so he knows whats going on with the group. Ill hold my wanting to change coaches until the end of next year.. See what kind of product he is able to field with one of the most talented groups to come through vidor in a while.. Whatever happens happens this year, its been said by quite a few people that this year we were going to be down, so i do not think the fault lies with just dubois. Think its just a perfect storm of being down, Jeff leaving, and dubois trying to learn how to get his kids to play hard, and increase participation. Just be patient, see what happens over the next year or two and see if the results are different because i really think there is a plan in place for this group to be the change that alot of people want. So let us vidor fans be patient and see what happens with them. Some might be surprised if a handful are not at Vidor next year. Kids want to play at the next level and other schools give those kids a better shot. Not many schools are beating down Vidor's door looking for next level talent.
VPfan2017 Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 2 minutes ago, Right99JOH said: Some might be surprised if a handful are not at Vidor next year. Kids want to play at the next level and other schools give those kids a better shot. Guess we will see🤷🏻♂️ Me personally i have not heard anyone grumbling about wanting to move schools, ive heard the opposite that this group wants to stick together and be a change in vidor football. Only thing we can do is just see what happens.
AggiesAreWe Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 How about you guys carry this convo over to the new thread for this week? Reagan 1
Mr. Thornton Melon Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 1 hour ago, VPfan2017 said: Guess we will see🤷🏻♂️ Me personally i have not heard anyone grumbling about wanting to move schools, ive heard the opposite that this group wants to stick together and be a change in vidor football. Only thing we can do is just see what happens. So if the goal is to have a decent team every 10-12 years when the talent is good enough to roll through the worst 4A-D1 district in the state, what does that say about the coaching ? To me it says they're depending on the players to pull the coaches weight ever so often. I hear that the Vidor freshman are going to be great when they are varsity at least every other year but it never pans out. Last time it panned out was 2016
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