Open/closed enrollment, transfers, recruiting….Help me UNDERSTAND?

[Coach_Izzy]

28 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Many schools are open enrollment nowadays for financial reasons.  More students = more money from the state.

Yup, more students=attendance money from the state. 

[oldschool2]

3 hours ago, Tiger33 said:

Lumberton would never vote for open enrollment 

Ya know.. just because a school is open enrollment doesn't mean that they have to accept ANY out of district student that tries to enroll.  In fact, most schools check things such as testing history, attendance, discipline, etc.. And even allow students to enroll on a "conditions based" agreement.  Open enrollment doesn't mean just let whoever wants to come show up and stay.

If Lumberton is truly a closed enrollment campus, they may truly be missing out on some good students.  What's the point of making you school into an educational facility where everybody wants to go to school, if you're going to limit who goes to school to who happens to live in the district?

[navydawg31]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

Many schools are open enrollment nowadays for financial reasons.  More students = more money from the state.

I did kind of notice other parts of the state have a lot more schools being open district… not many setx schools are… I wonder why we are always so far behind 

[oldschool2]

12 minutes ago, navydawg31 said:

I did kind of notice other parts of the state have a lot more schools being open district… not many setx schools are… I wonder why we are always so far behind 

I have a close friend that has been coaching for several years.. including a short time in SeTx.. who says, "Life ends south of Hwy 7" when referring to why this area is seemingly behind. 

[bullets13]

17 hours ago, marshman said:

Carthage has to be pulling in kids from all around them. There’s not that much in Carthage to do in the form of employment. 

Carthage is the rare example of a coach who has to do literally nothing to get talent to come to him. That said, if your kid is a good football player and you live fairly close to carthage, wouldn't it make sense to move into the district and commute to your job?  What's wild is that Beckville is only 10 min away from carthage, and Joaquin is less than 30 away.  Both have put out good football teams recently.  maybe they get the guys who'd normally start for a team like carthage if it wasn't pulling in studs from all over the place?

[AggiesAreWe]

2 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

A kid don't have to establish residency in an open enrollment school district...if the kid doesn't live in the district, they simply are ineligible for varsity athletics for a calendar year. 

Correct.

When I stated they had to establish residency, it was in order to immediately (after 15 days) be eligible to play varsity sports.

But, if ruled by DEC that the transfer was for athletic purpose, then the student will be ineligible.

[abPNUT]

2 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

A totally different culture that you probably don't understand...some kids only way out is athletics not education my brother. So parents are going to increase their kids chances by putting them in the best position to succeed athletically. 

This is wrong headed IMO. The key term here is "student athlete." They aren't mutually exclusive and I think that is exactly the rub here. Coaches are stacking their teams with excuses. Sure lets assume that it's all fair and "it's just the way it is".. I want to see a report. I don't need names or schools necessarily. I just want to know how many, the whys and wheres, and whether the student is a starter. 
 

If what you say is as innocent as it sounds then the said report should reflect that. I want to understand why it's so awesome for everyone 

[longball24]

Think about this school vouchers that will be approved in the future will do away with transfer students. With the voucher program kids will be able to go to school where they want and their tax dollars follow. Carthage would have competition Jasper for instance could compete. They would be able to pull all the best football players from Newton Woodville Burkeville even Silsbee to play for them . Schools would specialize by sport. Silsbee would be the basketball hub recruiting Jasper Kountze and Beaumont area kids. Bridge city would do the same in Baseball. I think transfers will become a thing of the past.

[89Falcon]

3 hours ago, bullets13 said:

Carthage is the rare example of a coach who has to do literally nothing to get talent to come to him. That said, if your kid is a good football player and you live fairly close to carthage, wouldn't it make sense to move into the district and commute to your job?  What's wild is that Beckville is only 10 min away from carthage, and Joaquin is less than 30 away.  Both have put out good football teams recently.  maybe they get the guys who'd normally start for a team like carthage if it wasn't pulling in studs from all over the place?

Teneha is closer and Timpson is the same distance as Joaquin. 

[Rez]

I think it would be a simple and important starting point to simply require the posting of every single transfer that includes athletic participation (and the sport/UIL activity) on a public, UIL-run website. If we actually got the data to see who is using transfers the most, we’d be better able to see where the problems are. And, if the number was known, it would be harder for the ones abusing the system to pretend it’s all normal. Because, even if there isn’t straight-up cheating going on, it’s plain that the rules are not being applied in a uniform manner across the board, and that the “no transfers for sports” purpose of the rules is being nakedly ignored by certain schools. If we could easily see who and how many and in what sports transfers are happening, it’s easier to actually pinpoint the problem, instead of having to rely on “It’s sure seems like that school has a lot.” Something definitely needs to be done. Some schools are trying to build programs organically. Certain other schools are making sure they always hold all the cards. That’s not how it’s supposed to be under the current rules. Having the actual numbers would help make that more clear. 

[WOSdrummer99]

Accountability is a 2 way mirror. Many good points being made here. I definitely like the idea of moving them up a division. Especially if they just won back to back after dropping down cuz enrollment numbers. Seems a lil odd that would happen to a school known for recruiting without the need to.

I had a conversation with a parent that really opened my eyes to the level some coaches are going to bring in talent. Even at the middle school level. 

Also I'd like to add that some schools have semi open enrollment. WOS for example has no qualifications to be met. Just come on in and we'll get more money from the state. Whereas LCM has standards for the transfers and a tuition fee that can be waived for low income students. They must have good attendance, discipline record, and maintain good grades.

[SmashMouth]

6 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

Yup, more students=attendance money from the state. 

Til the students outgrow the schools. Then they pass a bond and Big Daddy who doesn’t even have a kid in the system anymore has to pay more in property taxes. Lol. There’s definitely 2 sides to this coin. 

[CardinalBacker]

13 hours ago, CS. said:

This is the correct answer.  Recruiting using the excuse of open enrollment is creating an unfair advantage for certain schools, specifically those listed above.  It's cheating without cheating because they're skirting the rules.  They know it.  The UIL should absolutely step in and create an open enrollment division or force each to play up to 6A.  

Ultimately, these schools are robbing closed enrollment schools of potential trips to Rounds in the playoffs they may never see otherwise. 

Not to mention the schools that lose out on talent that they could use.  An example other than SOC is this... 

The QB for Argyle was recruited from Lake Dallas.  Lake Dallas had a very good team last year and that QB would have made a huge difference for them.  Forward to this year, Lake Dallas moves down to 4A-D1 and end up going 5-5.  He would have made a huge difference to them the last two years but instead he went to Argyle "for education?"  - Sure.  

Good for the kid I guess.  He went to the Semis in 5A and got slammed by SOC who has an unreal amount of students on their roster who weren't there last year.  

Imagine if LCM or BC recruited the guys out of WOS and went to State. 

WOS recruited Dan Ray from BC…

[Coach_Izzy]

5 hours ago, abPNUT said:

This is wrong headed IMO. The key term here is "student athlete." They aren't mutually exclusive and I think that is exactly the rub here. Coaches are stacking their teams with excuses. Sure lets assume that it's all fair and "it's just the way it is".. I want to see a report. I don't need names or schools necessarily. I just want to know how many, the whys and wheres, and whether the student is a starter. 
 

If what you say is as innocent as it sounds then the said report should reflect that. I want to understand why it's so awesome for everyone 

Most of the kids we’re referring to wouldn’t attend college if they didn’t play their respective sport. So yes parents are going to prioritize athletics over education. Whether you agree or not there’s a difference in “culture” in these communities that you wouldn’t understand.

Furthermore do you really think with the success these teams have had that these coaches have to go out & recruit players? Lol Samples is an icon in the DFW parents want their kids to play for him. Same thing at NS, if you live remotely close to NS you wouldn’t send your kid there if he was a stud in football? This is common sense. 

[CS.]

1 hour ago, Coach_Izzy said:

Most of the kids we’re referring to wouldn’t attend college if they didn’t play their respective sport. So yes parents are going to prioritize athletics over education. Whether you agree or not there’s a difference in “culture” in these communities that you wouldn’t understand.

Furthermore do you really think with the success these teams have had that these coaches have to go out & recruit players? Lol Samples is an icon in the DFW parents want their kids to play for him. Same thing at NS, if you live remotely close to NS you wouldn’t send your kid there if he was a stud in football? This is common sense. 

100% wrong. 
the success is completely attributed to the recruiting.  Especially at SOC.  
SOC lost last year to PNG and one of their coaches in the elevator said verbatim “we will never win another one with this **** at QB.  We gotta make a change.  
here comes Reggie McNeal Jr.  

didn’t work out but he sure made a difference.  Along with multiple other athletes who didn’t grow up in South Oak Cliff.  
No.  They grew up in Red Oak.  Arlington.  Forth Worth.  Houston.  
it’s a cheap way to win and then beat your chest that “you’re the best.”

the best at skirting the rules. 
sorry but I’m not impressed and I never will be.  I’m impressed with PNG of 2023.  woodville 2024. 
and all other teams that did it without skirting the rules or cheating outright. 

Open enrollment is poison to High School football.  Plain and simple. 
 

THAT is common sense. 
 

 

[WOSdrummer99]

1 hour ago, Coach_Izzy said:

So yes parents are going to prioritize athletics over education. Whether you agree or not there’s a difference in “culture” in these communities that you wouldn’t understand.

I feel what your saying and understand the situations faced by people of all races. But with the risk of starting to sound like CB. This is not always the case. For those using it as an excuse. Please stop. You are only handicaping yourself and others with the belief that this will always be the ways it is.

I see it first hand here in my hometown. Kids not getting scholarships anymore. And unconfirmed rumors of what they are now doing at school breaks my heart. Or even others that had the chance to get out but couldn't put away their childish ways at the next level. Next thing you know they're back in the Fruit robbing a store at gunpoint. Yep it's bad and getting worse round here. The kids need us to step up. Need those role models back in front of them on a daily basis. Not friends. 

Sorry to veer off topic

[Coach_Izzy]

1 hour ago, CS. said:

100% wrong. 
the success is completely attributed to the recruiting.  Especially at SOC.  
SOC lost last year to PNG and one of their coaches in the elevator said verbatim “we will never win another one with this **** at QB.  We gotta make a change.  
here comes Reggie McNeal Jr.  

didn’t work out but he sure made a difference.  Along with multiple other athletes who didn’t grow up in South Oak Cliff.  
No.  They grew up in Red Oak.  Arlington.  Forth Worth.  Houston.  
it’s a cheap way to win and then beat your chest that “you’re the best.”

the best at skirting the rules. 
sorry but I’m not impressed and I never will be.  I’m impressed with PNG of 2023.  woodville 2024. 
and all other teams that did it without skirting the rules or cheating outright. 

Open enrollment is poison to High School football.  Plain and simple. 
 

THAT is common sense. 
 

 

No Coach Todd has built a program that kids want to play for! Look at Skyline before & after he left. Kids want to play for the best teams, it happens at every level.

[CS.]

5 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

No Coach Todd has built a program that kids want to play for! Look at Skyline before & after he left. Kids want to play for the best teams, it happens at every level.

Which is easy to do with open enrollment and the UIL allowing him to get away with recruiting.  He isn’t building that type of program with actual SOC students and he never will.  Same goes for any of these “dominant programs”

[aki1994]

18 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

A totally different culture that you probably don't understand...some kids only way out is athletics not education my brother. So parents are going to increase their kids chances by putting them in the best position to succeed athletically. 

I understand. I also understand a majority of these kids will not do anything once they get to college beyond play football and will be right back in the crap once football is done with no education. 

Bottom line for me is I have ZERO issue with what Coach Todd and SOC are doing. If it gets a kid out of a bad situation and they make it, I applaud that. I just think they should be playing in a division that matches their ability to bring in kids from all over the state. 

And if DISD / SOC invested half the amount of energy they do into all the non football kids educations it would be less of an issue.  

[OlDawg]

Not every school district with open enrollment uses it as a ‘recruiting tool’. Some use it for the correct reason, which is to allow kids to get to a better, safer education experience. Some schools offer a lot more in the way of advanced placement opportunities, early college classes while still attending high school (with free college tuition included), and more vocational programs. Some of these vocational programs also offer UIL competitions, and are also regulated by the transfer rules.

I know kids at La Porte can actually graduate with a HS diploma & an Associates or Certificate of Specialization in a Tech field at the same time & have the college/tech at no charge due to a co-curriculum arrangement. It’s a big draw for some.

Just keep this in mind.

[Coach_Izzy]

4 hours ago, aki1994 said:

I understand. I also understand a majority of these kids will not do anything once they get to college beyond play football and will be right back in the crap once football is done with no education. 

Bottom line for me is I have ZERO issue with what Coach Todd and SOC are doing. If it gets a kid out of a bad situation and they make it, I applaud that. I just think they should be playing in a division that matches their ability to bring in kids from all over the state. 

And if DISD / SOC invested half the amount of energy they do into all the non football kids educations it would be less of an issue.  

this past weekend I just attended my former player’s graduation (Shadrach Banks) who graduated from TCU. A kid who was homeless in HS & is the first person in his family to graduate. He used football as a way out…also there was a few other kids who attended NS that graduated this weekend as well. You have no clue what majority of kids are doing once they’re done playing football.  Again y’all be so misinformed.

Stop complaining about open enrollment & tell the school district you root for to change their policies…

[CS.]

3 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

Just a dumb statement…this past weekend I just attended my former player’s graduation (Shadrach Banks) who graduated from TCU. A kid who was homeless in HS & is the first person in his family to graduate. He used football as a way out…also there was a few other kids who attended NS that graduated this weekend as well. You have no clue what majority of kids are doing once they’re done playing football.  Again y’all be so misinformed.

Stop complaining about open enrollment & tell the school district you root for to change their policies…

Again - as stated multiple times before - If they find a way out of bad situations.... GREAT.  But there needs to be a rule to stop Coaches/Schools from stacking teams just to win State Championships.  This debate isn't whether a kid should be able to play football somewhere.  If you really think moving to Dallas South Oak Cliff is the best for your kid... uhh ok cool.  SOC moves to 6A.  Period.  Coach Todd is stacking teams on an annual basis and the typical fan has to watch the same team play there 4 years in a row now.  How fun is that?  Now, if they were doing things correctly and making it there..... kudos.  The point is, they aren't.  The sport needs an overhaul.  It's not an impressive feat to get kids from all over the state to play on one team for one goal.  I'm happy those kids are playing in College.  That is a wonderful thing.... but if you want to stack teams, play with the big boys.  You'll still get seen.  You don't have to win a state championship to get into college. 

[aki1994]

3 hours ago, Coach_Izzy said:

Just a dumb statement…this past weekend I just attended my former player’s graduation (Shadrach Banks) who graduated from TCU. A kid who was homeless in HS & is the first person in his family to graduate. He used football as a way out…also there was a few other kids who attended NS that graduated this weekend as well. You have no clue what majority of kids are doing once they’re done playing football.  Again y’all be so misinformed.

Stop complaining about open enrollment & tell the school district you root for to change their policies…

I didn't say all. I was speaking about SOC. North Shore is nothing like SOC. North Shore is a much better school district for education. SOC is factually one of the worst educational schools in Texas. One of the poorest schools in Texas. But hey, great football team with plenty of swag and gear. 

 

And talk about a dumb statement? Open up all schools to open enrollment? So kids in Texas will end up with what amounts to an 8th grade education when they do graduate? Yeah that makes sense. 

[Vini vidi]

Easy fix go back to the pre 1981 uil rule on transferring. 1 calendar year from enrollment. 
we want to think of moving for athletic purposes is something new.  Ope go back and see what schools/communities out in west Texas were doing. 
completely understand why guys get frustrated about other schools poaching talent until the uil completely hammers down on it. It will continue to happen history may not repeat but it does rhyme 

[Coach_Izzy]

18 minutes ago, aki1994 said:

I didn't say all. I was speaking about SOC. North Shore is nothing like SOC. North Shore is a much better school district for education. SOC is factually one of the worst educational schools in Texas. One of the poorest schools in Texas. But hey, great football team with plenty of swag and gear. 

 

And talk about a dumbass statement? Open up all schools to open enrollment? So kids in Texas will end up with what amounts to an 8th grade education when they do graduate? Yeah that makes sense. 

You’re so misinformed 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

And my point still remains you have no clue what these kids are doing once they leave SOC or any of these other schools.