LAMAR VS UTAH VALLEY STATE - COACHING

[westendfirst]

DID ANYONE GO TO THE GAME?  I'M CURIOUS ABOUT UTAH VALLEY'S TALENT LEVEL VS OURS.  I HATE TO KEEP HARPING ON THE COACHING BUT I CAN'T THINK OF ANY OTHER REASON WE WOULD HAVE BEEN DOWN BY 14 POINTS AT HOME TO THIS TEAM?  ARE THEY TALENTED???  THEY MUST HAVE MUCH BETTER PLAYERS THAN I ANTICIPATED.  FROM LISTENING TO THE RADIO IT SOUNDED LIKE THEY ONLY HAD ONE COULD PLAYER AND THAT THEY WERE GETTING A BUNCH OF EASY SHOTS??  IS THAT NOT THE CASE??

QUESTION:  IN THE POST GAME INTERVIEW ROC SAID HE DID NOT MAKE ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO SLOW DOWN TOOLSON??  I ALMOST FELL ON THE FLOOR WHEN I HEARD THAT!!!!!  HE SAID THAT PLAYING ZONE OR BOX IN 1 IS NOT "OUR STYLE OF PLAY".  HE SAID WE CAME PACK BECAUSE OF THE EFFORT OF THE KIDS AND THEIR DESIRE TO WIN AND NOT BECAUSE OF ANY COACHING ADJUSTMENTS.

OK...I HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH THAT.  ISN'T IT THE KIDS JOB TO PLAY HARD AND EXECUTE WHATEVER IT IS THE COACH WANTS THEM TO DO???  ISN'T IT THE COACHES JOB TO SCOUT THE OPPONENT AND COME UP WITH THE BEST GAME PLAN POSSIBLE TO BEAT THEM?  IF YOU HAVE ONE PLAYER AS GOOD/HOT AS THE TOOLSON KID IS/WAS SHOULDN'T THE COACH COME UP WITH SCHEMES TO STOP THE KID.  WOULDN'T A GOOD COACH MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO COUNTER THE OTHER COACH/TEAM.  I JUST DON'T GET IT.

LOOK AT OUR GAME VS TECH.  WE DOMINATED THEM ON THE INSIDE IN THE FIRST HALF.  SO WHAT DID KNIGHT DO????  HE DIDN'T SAY "OH WELL, OUR TEAM JUST PLAYS STRAIGHT UP MAN AND WE ARE GOING TO KEEP DOING THAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE DO."  HE SAID "DAMMIT, THEY ARE KILLING US INSIDE..WHAT ADJUSTMENTS DO I NEED TO MAKE AS THE COACH OF THIS TEAM TO GIVE MY KIDS THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN?"  "OK, I'LL BUT OUR BETTER DEFENDER IN DURING THE 2ND HALF AND I'LL START DOUBLING DOWN ON THE POST".  WHAT HAPPENED??  NWEVO DID NOTHING IN THE 2ND HALF VS TECH.

IMO, A COACHES JOB IS TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS AND ACTUALLY COACH.  AM I BEING UNREASONABLE HERE????  AM I BEING TOO CRITICAL???  I MEAN, WE DID WIN BUT SHOULD IT HAVE BEEN THAT HARD FOR US TO BEAT UTAH VALLEY STATE???

[KFDM COOP]

Several members on here went, they'll fill you in!

[Guest abovetherim]

You make some very valid posts and frankly I agree with you. No disrespect to Coach Roc but there is the separation between a good and great coach. Lets take Coach Bill Belichick and a different sport. He is a master at making in game changes which result in match-ups benefiting his team.

Other than that, I really can't make a statement since I wasn't at the game.

[Guest coachacola]

I wasn't at the game so I may be way off on this, but it sounded like Toolson was making some unbelievable 3-pointers, even with a guy in his face.  When a guy is in the zone there's not much you can do to defend him.  Also, McThay was hurt and didn't play much. Coach Roc has said in the past that McThay is starting because of his defense, so that probably also contributed to this guy hitting a lot of shots.  Coach Roc's coaching skills have been questioned before, especially last year, but not as much this year.  My guess is he's still learning to be a head coach so I'm holding back judgement for a few more years.

[Guest mffl]

I didn't think the coaching was that bad. I mean the guy was making unbelievable shots like coachacola said. With about 8 min left we weren't a step too slow and we were getting after it. Thats why we won.

I have been disappointed in Roc some this year but you have to remember he's been making adjustments and is becoming a better coach. The offense is clicking much better than it was at the beginning of the season. I mean lets face it, LU has won all but 1 game since the BYU game and we lost by 2 at Tech.

Roc is doing better, and more importantly the team is.

[DP#1FAN]

We will see in the very near future how much better we have got.

[Guest spinks]

My definition of a great coach is a coaches team that continues to improve and over achieves.  I'll let you guys judge from there.

[Guest abovetherim]

My definition of a great coach is a coaches team that continues to improve and over achieves.  I'll let you guys judge from there.

spinks, your statement is right on target. A great coach has his team "improve and overachieve". Then I agree with Coachacola, I not ready to judge Roc just yet. I bet Coach K and Coach Knight are a lot better coaches today than when they were at Army. JMO.

[PNG1992]

at the point of the game when Lamar was down 14 points in the second half, UV was shooting around 72% for the game. Think about that number................72 freakin %. Frankly LU was lucky not to be down more than that at that point. Once UV cooled off a little the game ended like it should have. UV was a very well coached team that plays an offense that suits their personel, and when they can shoot at that high of a % they'll beat a lot of teams.

Bottom line is LU won and they're on the right track.

[KFDM COOP]

I Agree!

[westendfirst]

[quote name="PNG1992" post="313439" timestamp="1199951120"]
at the point of the game when Lamar was down 14 points in the second half, UV was shooting around 72% for the game. Think about that number................72 freakin %. Frankly LU was lucky not to be down more than that at that point. Once UV cooled off a little the game ended like it should have. UV was a very well coached team that plays an offense that suits their personel, and when they can shoot at that high of a % they'll beat a lot of teams.

Bottom line is LU won and they're on the right track.
[/quote]

I agree and I'm thrilled they won.  I also agree that Roc has to still be learning.  And, finally, I agree that 72% is unbelievable.  If they guy was making shots with someone all over him then you just have to take your hat off to him.  However, when a team is shooting that high of a percentage it usually means they are getting a lot of easy looks.  I am pleased with the teams improvement but I still don't think you stay with a defense that is getting burned.  But, I suppose that's why I'm not a coach.  If I were a coach I would have changed my defense to stop Toolson and someone else may have gotten easy looks.  Of course, every 'guru' out there knows what a team is good at and it really tries to stop whatever that is.  For example, in football, if the team has a good running back and no passing game you stack the line and make them pass to beat you.  You don't just say, well our strength is playing a dime defense so that's what we are going to play.

[mamacat]

If there is anyone out there who does not think Coach Roc does not want to win you are sadly mistaken and dont really know anything about him or his commitment to this Lamar basketball program.  It takes time to BUILD a program and I am sure there are alot of trial and errors that go along with that.  The one thing I dont understand is why there is not more fan support?  Everyone is happy as long as you are winning but what happens when you are losing and those kids and coaches need more support--the fans are nowhere to be seen.  And the last time I checked a win was still a win no matter what and isn't that how we are actually evaluating the success of this team and coaching staff.  It takes time---Rome wasn't built in a day.

[lu cards]

there will be 5000+ at the montagne saturday night.i think thats great support for a team that hasnt won 20 games or a conf championship in a long,long time.

[weslinder]

[quote name="westendfirst" post="316110" timestamp="1200424869"]
I agree and I'm thrilled they won.  I also agree that Roc has to still be learning.  And, finally, I agree that 72% is unbelievable.  If they guy was making shots with someone all over him then you just have to take your hat off to him.  However, when a team is shooting that high of a percentage it usually means they are getting a lot of easy looks.  I am pleased with the teams improvement but I still don't think you stay with a defense that is getting burned.  But, I suppose that's why I'm not a coach.  If I were a coach I would have changed my defense to stop Toolson and someone else may have gotten easy looks.[/quote]

I don't remember Toolson getting many open shots, other than the fast break lay-up that he missed.  He was hitting 30-foot fadeaways with a hand in his face and other circus shots.  The kid was unbelievable.

[Guest mffl]

[quote name="lu cards" post="316394" timestamp="1200481398"]
there will be 5000+ at the montagne saturday night.i think thats great support for a team that hasnt won 20 games or a conf championship in a long,long time.
[/quote]

If we win tomorrow night, i bet you're right!

[westendfirst]

If there is anyone out there who does not think Coach Roc does not want to win you are sadly mistaken and dont really know anything about him or his commitment to this Lamar basketball program.  It takes time to BUILD a program and I am sure there are alot of trial and errors that go along with that.  The one thing I dont understand is why there is not more fan support?  Everyone is happy as long as you are winning but what happens when you are losing and those kids and coaches need more support--the fans are nowhere to be seen.   And the last time I checked a win was still a win no matter what and isn't that how we are actually evaluating the success of this team and coaching staff.  It takes time---Rome wasn't built in a day.

Well, I think it starts with the student body.  The student body has ZERO school pride/spirit.  Go to a game and see how many students are there.  Then watch some other college games and look at their student sections.  There should be a minimum of 1500 students there at every home game.  I would say they average closer to 150 students per game.

[Guest abovetherim]

Agree, the student support has not been there but having the semester break doesn't help student attendance nor does a losing record. If Lamar had SHSU record for example, there would be at least 1500 students. Believe it or not, I was a student when Lamar had that many attending but Lamar had a very good basketball program back then. So, in a nutshell the way to have more students involved at a school like Lamar is winning.

[mamacat]

I agree with the both of you about the student body.  We have season tickets and attend all of the home games and I have noticed that. Don't they get in free or for next to nothing?  The fraternities use to have sections.    I also agree that winning will put more people in the seats. 

[westendfirst]

I agree with the both of you about the student body.  We have season tickets and attend all of the home games and I have noticed that. Don't they get in free or for next to nothing?  The fraternities use to have sections.    I also agree that winning will put more people in the seats. 

I don't know if they get in free or not.  I would hope they would.  There used to be a lot of students in attendance when I went to LU and we really weren't all that good.  In the mid to late 80's...post Foster.  I was in a fraternity and we'd bring 60 or 70 students just with our fraterntiy alone.  And most of the other fraternities and sororities would bring about the same on average.

I agree winning would help but we went more for fun than anything else.  There were some of us that were true basketball fans but most of the others were there for a 'party'.  The kids at LU need to learn that it is ok to go out to a game and have some fun and just act stupid every now and then.

Anyway, I hope the winning comes regardless of whether or not the students go.