THEBRAIN Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 intangables he plays hard runs hard improving offense imagine jags with him inside game changer w/o dominating the ball aka mini greg oden
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 If i had 1 coach and 1 player to start a new school this is easy i'll ???do what the league does :-\ take a good coach Boutte and center defensive stopper athletic freak Willie Jefferson .basketball starts with controlling the middle The Highschool game is a guards game... Everyone knows that!!! : Every year its the teams with the best guards that win.... So reguardless of the freak in the middle you have to be able to get the ball up court and into the offense and pressure the ball down court to eliminate lanes and opennings to the basket. And Soulja.. one and done doesn't build a program... Take the talent and teach them to be great... take the early bumps and scratches and have a well developed player by their senior year. If Tremain is one and done then you can't BUILD a team around him... The post said BUILD a NEW team with a NEW coach! Soulja... You my dude but I agree to Disagree on this one! ;D
Guest DickVitale Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 First off fellas, its a HYPOTHETICAL question, so you have to remember that...Both of you (Soulja and shortt) make good points though. It's like the old question do you build around Shaq or Kobe? BUT thats NBA, where father time will eventually take over, so it is a bit different. Â
BMTSoulja1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 If i had 1 coach and 1 player to start a new school this is easy i'll  ???do what the league does :-\ take a good coach Boutte and center defensive stopper athletic freak Willie Jefferson .basketball starts with controlling the middle The Highschool game is a guards game...  Everyone knows that!!! :  Every year its the teams with the best guards that win....  So reguardless of the freak in the middle you have to be able to get the ball up court and into the offense and pressure the ball down court to eliminate lanes and opennings to the basket.  And Soulja.. one and done doesn't build a program...  Take the talent and teach them to be great... take the early bumps and scratches and have a well developed player by their senior year.  If Tremain is one and done then you can't BUILD a team around him...  The post said BUILD a NEW team with a NEW coach!  Soulja... You my dude but I agree to Disagree on this one! ;D The underclassmen will be modivated by Thomas and will play to his level. It wont' be hard, because Boutte will be coaching them. We had this talk during football about Central being bad. You go from being a runner up in district to being scrubs. That team had senior that shoud have been having some underclassmen 'under their wing'. How do you think these winning programs keep winning? Believe me, it's not 'all' athletic ability.
THEBRAIN Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Brown was the best gaurd last year they win state. gaurds get stats in highschool not wins in last year 4 a title game gaurds dominated it or was it the bigs .thats why so many gaurds in highschool are thought to be the best players but don't get d 1 offers .
Guest DickVitale Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Well the problem with HS guards is that all over the country there are 5'11" to 6' 2" guards that can play. To be deemed special you must be an exceptional shooter, exceptional athlete, a fantastic floor general or a combination of the three. Now if you are a 6'4 - 6'6 guard, the opportunities are a bit more prevalent, with less of those attributes because you are of exceptional size to be a guard. You still have to be able to play, but college coaches are more apt to grab up that big guard than the average little guy.
THEBRAIN Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 i understand alot of people on here don't ;D who'd thought i'd ever agree with dickie v
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Well the problem with HS guards is that all over the country there are 5'11" to 6' 2" guards that can play. To be deemed special you must be an exceptional shooter, exceptional athlete, a fantastic floor general or a combination of the three. Now if you are a 6'4 - 6'6 guard, the opportunities are a bit more prevalent, with less of those attributes because you are of exceptional size to be a guard. You still have to be able to play, but college coaches are more apt to grab up that big guard than the average little guy. Dickie is right! The Highschool game is a guard game but Highschool guards for the most part are short... Height is big in basketball so those great little guards don't trancsend to college and the pros... That's y scholarships are there for all the guards. Just look at the state tourney... There have been 4 bigs (5A - 4A) to get MVP in the last ten years and the rest are guards. Perk, Arthur, Boddicker, and Bosh... There rest were gards!
THEBRAIN Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 ok one more point gaurds in highschool also play other gaurds that are the same hieght another taller gaurd may not be able to show complete skill set in games do to playing the post or having a 3 gaurd lineup puts taller gaurds at disadvantage unable to dribble or use footwork .ex k .richards last year joseph/gulley this year
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Dickie... You are a coach.... Tell me which dominates the high school game...  Guard play or Bigs?  Don't forget the Wheatly, Dallas Lincoln, PA Lincoln, Dunbar, SA Jay, Kountze, SOC, Willowridge (which had bigs but we know it was all about TJ, Ewing, K. Taylor) and  teams that won on their guard play...  The one year Ozen won it all they had great guards with Mike at the helm...  Big Perk, Dab, & KT could not win it all against a Dunbar team that only had one big and he was 6'4" and 4 guards and a Lincoln team that had Bosh and 4 little guards.
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 ok one more point gaurds in highschool also play other gaurds that are the same hieght another taller gaurd may not be able to show complete skill set in games do to playing the post or having a 3 gaurd lineup puts taller gaurds at disadvantage unable to dribble or use footwork .ex k .richards last year joseph/gulley this year Not guards who can dribble and know the game... Just because you are 6'6" guard that doesnt mean that you can't dribble!
THEBRAIN Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 man Brown is a great gaurd too bad they couldn't win because they didn't have anyone on the inside at p.a.m remember those 2 state titles came with his brother on the inside and kheeston randle the big from ozen followed. his opinion is just that his there is no right or wrong answers only opinions message boards have fun
THEBRAIN Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 6'6 players dribbling against 5'9 players = turn overs next your gonna say 5'5 players post and rebound as well 6'9
Guest DickVitale Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Well I think that Dallas Lincoln showed us in 2002 that we needed solid GUARD play!! ..In high school ball turnovers are a key element in winning and winning BIG..If you have great bigs and can't get them the ball, then other than on the defensive end they are useless....Usually teams that are very successful have some pretty good guards to go along with everything else. Â Willowridge would NOT have dominated without TJ Ford and Daniel Ewing, and Ivan McFarland was a BEAST!! in 2001 Mike Thomas, Brandon Chappell, Tigee Rideaux and Albert Marshall were HUGE for us..in 2002, Brandon Chappell was solid but when we lost James Wilson, we had to force Chappell to be a PG overnight. Â He did a solid job, but past him, our ball handling overall was suspect...Hope that helped!
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 man Brown is a great gaurd too bad they couldn't win because they didn't have anyone on the inside at p.a.m remember those 2 state titles came with his brother on the inside and kheeston randle the big from ozen followed. his opinion is just that his there is no right or wrong answers only opinions message boards have funNot mad... I'm just stating my case and credible info... Â There have been more state finalist with no good bigs then there has been with great bigs!
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Well I think that Dallas Lincoln showed us in 2002 that we needed solid GUARD play!! ..In high school ball turnovers are a key element in winning and winning BIG..If you have great bigs and can't get them the ball, then other than on the defensive end they are useless....Usually teams that are very successful have some pretty good guards to go along with everything else.  Willowridge would NOT have dominated without TJ Ford and Daniel Ewing, and Ivan McFarland was a BEAST!! in 2001 Mike Thomas, Brandon Chappell, Tigee Rideaux and Albert Marshall were HUGE for us..in 2002, Brandon Chappell was solid but when we lost James Wilson, we had to force Chappell to be a PG overnight.  He did a solid job, but past him, our ball handling overall was suspect...Hope that helped!Don't forget about Breckinridge... He played some point for us that summer... If it were not for injury he would have made that team so much stronger!
THEBRAIN Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 can't shoot the ball if you can't rebound it thats normally the 1 st thing when Ozen beats the school u cheer for they yell they're biggeer than us even on the mrssage boards
Guest DickVitale Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Oh ABSOLUTELY...I was talking about from the PG perspective..But losing Jason Breckenridge with that ACL injury was a big blow..He was also one of my favorite guys and I hated that for him. However, losing James was crucial because without Breck we had to force Chappell to change his role completely...We wanted Chappell to fill it up but he had to be a PG full time..That worked for a while, but it was our achilles, because we were not deep at the guard spot. Desmond Cooper was good for us, but we had to experiment playing Jason Dabney on the wing..He did a good job until.....Austin... >..(joking) He was definitely at a disadvantage though.
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 can't shoot the ball if you can't rebound it thats normally the 1 st thing when Ozen beats the school u cheer for they yell they're biggeer than us even on the mrssage boardsI am not denying that bigs are important... They are!!! Â But a big body can be thrown in there anytime (go get that big kid with a little athleticism and just put his big but in there) and a Big in High school could be 6'4" and be a beast... Â The skill is in the guards in high school!
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Oh ABSOLUTELY...I was talking about from the PG perspective..But losing Jason Breckenridge with that ACL injury was a big blow..He was also one of my favorite guys and I hated that for him. However, losing James was crucial because without Breck we had to force Chappell to change his role completely...We wanted Chappell to fill it up but he had to be a PG full time..That worked for a while, but it was our achilles, because we were not deep at the guard spot. Desmond Cooper was good for us, but we had to experiment playing Jason Dabney on the wing..He did a good job until.....Austin... >..(joking) He was definitely at a disadvantage though.Even though Breck was 6'4" *close* he had PG ability and could have taken some of the load off of Chappell too. Could you imagine Perk, KT(who should have been the wing), Dab, Breck, and Chappell... You all might have one!
Guest DickVitale Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Breck was a SMART player with athletic ability, which allowed him to play some PG, but the reason Dabney was experimented with on the wing instead of KT (Keena Young) was because Boutte believes in a POST game and we did not want to sacrifice KT's tenaciousness around the blocks, so we let Dabney go outside. IF, IF, IF.....
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 Breck was a SMART player with athletic ability, which allowed him to play some PG, but the reason Dabney was experimented with on the wing instead of KT (Keena Young) was because Boutte believes in a POST game and we did not want to sacrifice KT tenaciousness around the blocks, so we let Dabney go outside. IF, IF, IF..... yEAH i HAVE SOME iFS FOR chs AS WELL!
shorttexas1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 6'6 players dribbling against 5'9 players = turn overs next your gonna say 5'5 players post and rebound as well 6'9 In that case I guess kobe better stay away from earl boykins!!! boykins will expose him when he drbblies.... LMAO... Same goes for Carmelo 6'8", Lebron 6'8", Durant 6'10", McGrady 6'8", Rashard Lewis 6'8", Stevie Jackson 6'8", Vince Carter, 6'6", Jamal Crawford 6'6", Ginolbi 6'6", Stack House 6'6" Lamar Odom 6'11", and my favorite Micheal Jordan 6'6"... You better ask Dickie V how easy it is to rip Perk 1-on-1 drbbliing... He is not even the best player on the NBA level but I have watched him make little guards look silly on the dribble. But you say Earl Boykins will expose all of the if they would just dribble... Just because you are tall doesn't make you easy to rip!
AggiesAreWe Posted January 25, 2008 Report Posted January 25, 2008 I'll put my 2 cents in here( which maybe only a cent and a half) I agree with most of what each of you have posted. I believe exceptional guard play is the key to great success in high school basketball, but with a disclaimer. I think it is more prevelant in the 5A-4A level. Usually those classifications all yield their share of big men, so usually they cancel each other, unless you get the great ones, which they don't come around as often. Now in the lower classifications, 3A-1A, a big man is a great advantage. Most schools in those classifications can only put a '6"2-'6"3 player down low, but if you have a big man in the '6"7-'6"10 range, that can fill it up and grabs every rebound, you are probably going to win more than your share of games. I've been going to the state tournament since '72, haven't missed a year since. I have seen my fair share of great teams at all classifications. What I have seen is the 5A-4A teams that win state usually do it with guard play, but the lower classifications usually have that big man that nobody has to match up with, and use it to their advantage. Yes, there are exceptions, but usually the state champion in those lower classifications had that big guy that dominated inside. He might have been only '6"4, but he was the key. Just my humble opinion, now back to the debate.
shorttexas1 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Posted January 25, 2008 Great points... And I agree... I know Willie is atheletic and 6'7"-6'8" ish but he is not that dominant big that you can ride to state! I have a vested interest in the kid so you can't say I am just putting him down but I am telling the truth. He is already a senior so there will be no more growth of his game and he has too many gaps to be a big you ride to state. He is a great kid with even better Defense but his offesive game just is not there... TO prone, not a good free throw shooter, and only has lay-ups and dunks in his arsenal. Hi hustle will shadow those flaws until he meets a kid his size or taller in the Play offs.... On the other hand Gulley 6'4" and Frank 6'2" are exceptional guards that still have growing to do... You can have them for more than one year so they will have time to grow with the team and and everyone around them will have a chance to get better. Now if I had to put a team together willie would definuitely be my 3rd pick after I solidify my backcourt but I would not start with him. Lets just say I would like to have Skip and Dubie; Bracey Wright and Deron Williams; TJ Ford and Daniel Ewing, Daneil Gibson and Harrison Smith!!!!!!
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