Coach85 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Because he is technically throwing to an unoccupied bag which is considered a balk unless he steps off the back of the rubber. When he steps off the back of the rubber he is then considered an infielder and can throw to which ever base he chooses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Wildcats Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 That is why I feel it is not a balk. You are making a play on a runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Wildcats Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Because he is technically throwing to an unoccupied bag which is considered a balk unless he steps off the back of the rubber. When he steps off the back of the rubber he is then considered an infielder and can throw to which ever base he chooses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Wildcats Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 But you are making an attempt to put out a runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach85 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 When you are toeing the rubber you can only throw to a base that is occupied to try to pick off a runner. In order to throw to any other unoccupied base the pitcher must step off the back of the rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Wildcats Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 I understand that. If a runner breaks early to second, the pitcher cannot use the pivot move to try to get the out at second? As the rule states, you making an attempt to put a runner out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Ganoush Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 My understanding, depends on umpire. If the runner actually attempts a steal, it is legal to throw ahead. If a strong fake steal, it can be called a balk. Umpire has final say on if he believes it was an attempt to steal or not. Probably best to discuss with umps before the game. The "judgement" rule wins every time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas13 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 that is not right if a pitcher spins without stepping off he has to throw to first base or it is a balk but if he steps off the back then it does not matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUmp1 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Turning and throwing on a pick off move is one thing. What usually happens is when the runner breaks, the pitcher steps off the back and maybe runs at him. If you just spin off of the rubber and run it is a balk because you did not clearly step off the back and disengage the rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas13 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Which last night the pickoff trick play silsbee did was actually a balk because he spun to second instead of stepping off the back before tucking it under his arm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUmp1 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 a pick off move is different than a runner stealing and the pitcher making a play on him. That is what I have been trying to say all along it is two different situations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 when in doubt read the rule yourself. there are a lot of umpires that don't know the rules also. ART. 4 . . . Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a pitcher while he is touching the pitcher’s plate is a balk: a. any feinting toward the batter or first base, or any dropping of the ball (even though accidental) and the ball does not cross a foul line (6-1-4); b. failing to step with the non-pivot foot directly toward a base (occupied or unoccupied) when throwing or feinting there in an attempt to put out, or drive back a runner; or throwing or feinting to any unoccupied base when it is not an attempt to put out or drive back a runner; c. making an illegal pitch from any position (6-1, 6-2-1a-d); d. failing to pitch to the batter in a continuous motion immediately after any movement of any part of the body such as he habitually uses in his delivery; 1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,†it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time†and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of 7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. Thus, two strikes are called on the batter in (b). If the umpire judges the batter’s action to be a deliberate attempt to create a balk, he will penalize according to 3-3-1o. e. taking a hand off the ball while in a set position (6-1-3), unless he pitches to the batter or throws to a base or he steps toward and feints a throw to second or third base as in (b); or f. failing to pitch to the batter when the entire non-pivot foot passes behind the perpendicular plane of the back edge of the pitcher’s plate, except when feinting or throwing to second base in an attempt to put out a runner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Wildcats Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 I may not be reading this rule right, but according to but to 4b it would not be a balk when a pitcher goes to an unoccupied base go make a play on a runner; without first stepping off the rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas13 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 You read it wrong non pivot foot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Wildcats Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 Gotcha texas13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirksey05 Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 You can step with your non-pivot (front) foot toward any unoccupied base (2nd or 3rd) as long as you continue on to make the throw to the base, and there is someone attempting to steal it. I've seen this done both in high school and at college. Not a balk and clearly stated in 4b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 How many times have you heard a coach or a 1st baseman tell the pitcher to step off when a runner breaks early. Pitcher must disengage the rubber if runner is stealing second before throwing to 2nd base. Most throw behind the runner to 1st ( base that is occupied). Balk in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirksey05 Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 The reason coaches say step off is in case of the runner faking a steal. If you throw to an unoccupied base when no one is making an attempt to steal then it is a balk. Please re-read the quoted rule book below if you don't believe me. failing to step with the non-pivot foot directly toward a base (occupied or unoccupied) when throwing or feinting there in an attempt to put out, or drive back a runner; or throwing or feinting to any unoccupied base when it is not an attempt to put out or drive back a runner; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 You must dis-engage.... I would balk you every time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirksey05 Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 You would be in direct contradiction to the rule book specifically 4.b., how would you justify that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Where in the rule does it say you don't have to dis-engage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirksey05 Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 ART. 4 . . . Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a pitcher while he is touching the pitcher’s plate is a balk: b. failing to step with the non-pivot foot directly toward a base (occupied or unoccupied) when throwing or feinting there in an attempt to put out, or drive back a runner; or throwing or feinting to any unoccupied base when it is not an attempt to put out or drive back a runner; The above is a direct quote from the rule book. If you step with the non-pivot(front) foot directly toward a base (even unoccupied) when attempting to put out or drive back a runner it is not a balk. The reason that coaches tell players to step off is because if someone leaves early but doesn't attempt to take the base it is a balk due to the fact there is then no runner to put out of drive back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I agree with .Mr.Ump1 I think and will call it a balk. No way a pitcher can step directly to 2nd if runner is breaking from 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 We can agree to disagree on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirksey05 Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Sounds good, I don't think either one of us is going to change the other persons mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.