Where's the defense in high school baseball gone?

[adminbaberuth]

I've watched alot of baseball in my life, especially high school. The No.1 part of the game that has changed over the years is defense.

Where has the double play gone, the pop up behind the plate caught or the ball hit in the gap relayed to the plate? Have we turned the players into specialist at the plate or the mound?

Anyone with the answer please chime in. 

[utguy09]

You are right! Defense has changed a lot. A lot of these kids seem to think that they have to look good throwing the ball from third to first or from center to home plate.

You dont win the game with style points, or the number of arm bands you where.

Its who commits less errors and crosses the plate the most!

[sarge]

The gloves have been replaced by the bats.  From what I've seen over the past five years, its all about the long ball.  Players are on the field that have no business out there except they can hit.  Much more time is spent in the cage than taking infield practice.  Also when is the last time you've seen sandlot ball being played?  Why do you think the players from the islands or South America are taking a lot of the spots in the majors.  Its because they strap a milk carton to their hands as kids and play all day.

[Guest leatherneck]

adminbaberuth, that is a very good question.  I have never seen so many errors in high school baseball.  The sad thing is, this is a wide spread problem in high school.  It seems as though todays players are only concerned with hitting the long ball.  Don't get me wrong, it is exciting to watch.  It is also as equally painful to watch the errors.  You asked about the double plays,  I have been to roughly 20 games this year and have only seen one double play turned. I have seen a couple of double plays turned from the line drive and double a kid up, or ball hit to third step on bag and throw to first, but I am talking about the 643,463, or 543.  It just has not happened in the games I have seen (and there have been plenty of opportunities).  The missed fly balls to the outfield,  when you are  in high school and your are camped under a fly ball, you have to be able to make the catch.

[643]

I too think 'fundementals' has left the game, and what gets me is even in Pro ball THEY CAN NOT BUNT, sometimes I think they don't want to bunt therefore not getting the ball down. On the dbl plays in HS, VERY few middle infielders know how to set up to recieve and thro and the one fielding knowing which side to thro the ball to and this is huge in cutting down a cpl of steps on the runner. You see outfielders set up WRONG under a ball to make a thro therefore giving the runner a xtra step. I was taught a good player makes a hard play look easy, but today you will see players make a easy play look hard, I was also taught you drive the ball and if it goes over the fence its a bonus. Hitters no longer know how to hit for the team, 'hitting behind the runner' or 'getting the ball in the air' depending on situtation. I watched one of my favorite HS players trying to hit a 'walkoff HR' the other nite at HJ the opposing coach recongized this immediatly and countered with the end result of a 'K'. I have heard 'chicks dig the long ball' and its sad but true.

[Dog4Life]

I think everybody is guilty of "long ball" envy. Thats why there's a thread on here called "setx homeruns" and not one called "Who respects the game and plays it the way its suppose to be played". JMO

[Guest ASISEEIT]

I think everybody is guilty of "long ball" envy. Thats why there's a thread on here called "setx homeruns" and not one called "Who respects the game and plays it the way its suppose to be played". JMO

I agree Dog...  Those kids your're talking about are out there, they just never get mentioned and they don't get on here and self promote.

[Guest leatherneck]

As coaches and parents we do have to be careful not to have the kids thinking that the only way to be a good baseball player is to be able to hit the ball 400'.  We do not want these kids to feel as though they need to seek means to get stronger, other than good hard work on the field and in the gym.  Don't get me wrong, being able to hit is important, I am just saying defense is as equally important.

                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm sure there are a few pictures out there that would agree with this.  Pictures like to get wins but they also don't like giving up 5- 10 runs with that win, earned or unearned.

[Guest leatherneck]

Sorry about spelling of pictures, it should be pitchers. Its still early for me.

[3up3down]

Defense and baseball fundamentals are not taught to young players in pee wee or little league.It is not taught or demanded in High School.Runners advance because outfielders dont know how to set up to catch a fly ball or hit a cut off man.Catchers dont block balls in the dirt.Infielders dont know where to go with the ball in all situations.And finally fundamentals are not recruited.Daddys need to teach there sons how to play the game not spend all the time at the cage.Little league coaches should spend more time on fundamentals(news flash if you want to WIN teach your kids how to play).High School coaches give the fungo bat to a player and go TEACH your fielders how.Work with your catchers they dont learn how to catch by catching bullpen.

[retiredoldcoach]

Select baseball leaves many many kids with nowhere to play. If there is a pony colt league, it is so stripped of the good players it is not worthwhile.  This has widened the gap between the haves and the have nots. Theses are the kids dropping the majority of the fly balls and kicking the bigger share of the ground balls. IMO

roc

[Terrier]

I think everybody is guilty of "long ball" envy. Thats why there's a thread on here called "setx homeruns" and not one called "Who respects the game and plays it the way its suppose to be played". JMO

I agree Dog...  Those kids your're talking about are out there, they just never get mentioned and they don't get on here and self promote.

The reason those kids don't get mentioned is they don't get on the field. High School coaches have a hand in this too. They will play a kid with less than desirable defensive skills if they can hit HR's. That sends a message to the players that they have to be able to hit the ball out of the park if they want to get in the game. So, naturally they focus on hitting instead of defense.

[Clsof87Pirate]

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one out here wondering about this problem. So far this season, we have lost 2 games in which we either out numbered the opposing team in hits, or was even in number of hits and got 10 run ruled.In one game our pitcher threw a no-hitter through the first two innings, and we were behind 8-0.In another game the opposing team had 2 hits, and beat us 9-7.From what I can tell, it is a lack of fundamentals, practice and desire. Most coaches today do not want to spend the time to hit 100 ground balls to infielders in practice, because they will not be able to get BATTING PRACTICE in. And the kids are programed to take a couple of ground balls in practice and move on to something else, because most do not have the desire to become better. If they do not get it at home,(which 98% do not) they will never reach a point where they can make routine ground, and fly ball outs, they just do not get enough practice. Parents need to realize this and help thier kids out at home. Just before I came in the house this evening and found this thread, I hit ground balls to my 10 and 15 year olds in the front yard for 1 hour. If every player on our team got this 2-3 times a week, I know we would not be making so many errors.

[bulldog16]

Ron Polk said it best, "a liability in the field is an asset (ass set) on the bench." 

[Guest BC boy 17]

there are a couple teams around hear that have a pretty good defense. alot of kids burn down the base paths, im sure thats got to have something to do with fewer double plays being turned

[HighQualityBP]

My unscientific guess based on playing college baseball and coaching my three sons throughout their baseball playing time is that most high school (or MLB?) baseball games are decided by how many walks your pitching allows and how many errors your defense makes.

With that observation, I am not sure how often high school pitchers throw batting practice to a hitter and a catcher. Usually, the coaches pitch the majority of BP and the pitchers throw a bullpen. I believe the pitchers do not develop their command or control without throwing to a catcher with a hitter standing at the plate.

With regard to fielding, I am not sure how many players get enough repetition in practice fielding ground balls and working on their hand placement and foot-work. Fielding is about reaction developed through repetition. One of the best ways to accomplish this is to organize BP so that the fielders have to play the ball "live" and make fielding plays under pressure. This keeps everyone involved and not standing in clusters in the outfield with only the coach who is pitching BP and the hitter working.

I will concede that developing soft-hands doing short-hops is not nearly as much fun as standing at the plate and trying to hit the baseball as far as you can....

[sportsnut]

It's all about the style. The coaches want someone to look good. Fundamentals, why? As long as you look good screwing up. And a lot of parents are as much at fault as the coaches. They sit in the stands, keeping their own books, and making their videos to send to colleges for scholarships. Their stats are as accurate as their thinking that their precious one is going to end up in the big leagues one day. All of this is led to the "I" state of mind in all high school athletic programs. Teams are a thing of the past. Their is no teamwork, and this is the coaches fault for not teaching that mentality. There are so many threads asking who is best at this or that, it is a joke. That one players not going to win a game by him or herself. O.K, maybe in golf or tennis, but no team sports. I think the coaches need to worry less about style points, and TEACH defense.

To the parents, if your child is that good, they will get noticed, but there are also a whole bunch of other "good" players in the state and country. I have seen some very good players end up with no scholarships, or limited scholarships.

[utguy09]

It's all about the style. The coaches want someone to look good. Fundamentals, why? As long as you look good screwing up. And a lot of parents are as much at fault as the coaches. They sit in the stands, keeping their own books, and making their videos to send to colleges for scholarships. Their stats are as accurate as their thinking that their precious one is going to end up in the big leagues one day. All of this is led to the "I" state of mind in all high school athletic programs. Teams are a thing of the past. Their is no teamwork, and this is the coaches fault for not teaching that mentality. There are so many threads asking who is best at this or that, it is a joke. That one players not going to win a game by him or herself. O.K, maybe in golf or tennis, but no team sports. I think the coaches need to worry less about style points, and TEACH defense.

To the parents, if your child is that good, they will get noticed, but there are also a whole bunch of other "good" players in the state and country. I have seen some very good players end up with no scholarships, or limited scholarships.

A few good examples of a "team" would be last years jasper, lcm, and vidor.

These are the teams that i like to see play. They bunt and play the small ball.

[cleanup13]

Well I agree with most of these comments, however, I do feel that Coach Stone and Coach Brevell at PNG spend quite a bit of time teaching/practicing the basics in defense.  If you ever come to a practice at PNG you will see quite a bit of infield work being done.  PNG has turned at least 5 or 6 double plays, 6-4-3, 5-2-3, 4-6-3.  They also spend a lot of time with the catcher(s), with blocking balls in the dirt, catching pop-ups, throw-downs to each base, etc.  It shows in that Carnahan has not had one passed ball yet this season and has a high percentage of throwing out players on each of the bases.  While in-field work is being done, another coach is working with the outfielders catching pop-flys.  They also practice when to hit the cut-off and when to let it go through for the out.  They do spend time with hitting at the end of practice, but it is very controlled.  I don't know how this compares to other schools, because I have not been to their practices.  Coach Stone takes errors very seriously (as you may have heard him in a game :0)

[sportsnut]

Utguy, I apologize. I misstated my intended thoughts. I should have said "some" coaches. You are exactly right. I have seen all three "TEAMS" play this year, and it makes a difference.  They will be at the top of their districts.

[utguy09]

I understood what you where trying to say.

Its not just these three teams. You by looking how good the area teams are doing in these tournements.

Its just a different kind of baseball around here.

[643]

In a perfect world a HS coach should not have to teach just expand on whats already in place and that starts at home in the back yard. I know in my case I have no idea how many hrs(days) I spent with my 2 along with others. I don't think a pitcher would get better throwing BP up to a point as BP is just that. I would be hard for a coach to watch mechanics along with trying to correct problems in both pitcher and batter and watch a batted ball. I have seen a player stand in B box in the pen on more than a cpl of times in college, even in Pro ball they move the Bp pitcher to about 45' for the hitters. When my son played I attended Spring trainings and did see Minor league pitchers in game situations throwing BP to Big Leaguers but this was intended to help the hitters as all pitches (not location) were called out so the hitter would know whats comming, I can't speak for all orgs but that was the way the Rangers did it then. I too know that when the Astros got Joe Morgan yrs n yrs back he would stay hrs after practice taking up to 500 ground balls dailey making him one of the best 2nd basemen ever. To be good in BB it takes hard work, lots of it and if you don't want to work go play Batmitten.

[Terrier]

You are right about it taking a lot of hard work to become a good fielder. In todays baseball world the emphasis on fielding is not there. The kids see players on tv that are horrible in the field, Barry Bonds, Carlos Lee, Manny Ramirez, etc., but are considered stars because they can hit. They get all the hype. Players like Adam Everett who is a great fielder are considered sub par because they don't hit monster home runs.

[643]

I would love to see either of them 3 get a bunt signal. I would have to disagree on A Everett, all he would have to do is hit for ave. You see a lot of Pro players sons emerging as very good prospects and this is directly related to their dads knowing what it takes to get there.

[Terrier]

I agree that Everett didn't hit for a very good average. But his defense was excellent. Look what the Astro's replaced him with. A shortstop with questionable defensive skills and HR power.