Need a rules clarification

[Guest DickVitale]

Really there are not any teams that have won more than 3 in a row... So what SOC is doing is all world.  An the fact that they were very suspect this season is another great thing...  I believe SOC lose 9 games this year and the PROGRAM "worked" turned it around and won State...  This was probally the least talented SOC team I have seen.  That 6'11" kid would have been embarrassed by a kid like Perk or Bosh!  He looked like the 9th Grade Perk!!!

But they won State 4 times in a row...  They should be on all the big web sites being boosted...  But its Oh! Those inner City Kids won it again   :-\

Do you guys follow sports?  South Lake Carroll had won three in a row and they are considered one of the best programs in the world. But there is no one talking about SOC outside of Dallas!?  What is that about?  Well all that can be said is that it took the Dunbar coach 40 years before he was recognized so SOC doesn't matter yet!

At the 4A and 5A level, this is correct and as far as I am concerned, a tremendous feat, I mean 4 in a row, unbelievable!!! But there have been other teams that have accomplished more than 3 consecutive titles. The one that really sticks out is Snook High School, 10 titles with 8 of them being consecutive. Also, Wheatley won 4 in a 5 year period, Bmt. Hebert won 3 in a row then their school consolidated, and PA Lincoln won 5 in an 8 year stretch. All of these were exceptional achievements. Just thought I would clarify.

I did not go down the latter to Snook.. I did speak big school and no one has won 4 in a row... 4 in 5 years is not 4 in a row.  5in 8 is not 4 in a row!!!  just thought I would clarify that....

Excellent clarification...I told you these novice "basketball analysts" have no CLUE most of the time what they are talking about..they just type!  :

[shorttexas1]

Very well spoken short, I totally agree. What I think some people have a problem with this discussion is where it's being discussed at. There are forums to discuss these types of issues and that's where they would like to see it at. Most come to these forums to discuss sports and not it's political side, which everyone is quite aware of. They would like to enjoy their time here talking up the game and what it all involves, but not get all twisted up in the darker side of it. That might be considered turning a blind eye to it, but that's how a lot of our posters see it. There is a place for it, but not here, at least that's what I am feeling from others.

I know personally that this site's owner put rules in place to discourage racial banter and to keep it from the sport forums. He has put in place forums for those type discussions and that's why you may see some posts and threads deleted. What you will probably see is those threads just moved to a different forum for all to discuss.

As far as I am concerned personally, as long as their is no personal racial attacking or moving a thread away from it's subject to race, then I have no problem with it and believe it could be discussed in a respectful manner. Problem is, it normally gets too heated and ends up going nowhere. Sad to say.

Agg i totally feel you on this is not a social forum its a sports forum, but like I said if it exist in life it exist in sports.  The only reason it gets heated is because some people here can't discuss racial issues in sports because it hits too close to home...  We all know this part of the world is known for having racial tensions.  It should be able to be discussed because it is part of sports!!!  ESPN, a sports station is airing a documentary called "Black Magic" on Monday and Tuesday next week.  It is about the great talent in coaching and players at HBCU's before intergration.  Sports is being challegened and dying at HBCU's now because the big schools have stolen all the talent.  But my point is if ESPN can talk racial issues why can't SETXSPORTS.COM.  ???

[Guest DickVitale]

Chuuuuuuch!! Tabernacle, Sanctuary!!! CATHEEEEDRAAAALL!!

[JS]

It is really simple---people hear that stuff everywhere...just look at the political race today and there it is--in your local community- there it is turn on the TV etc etc---why can this just be about sports and leave the other crap for someplace else

[Guest DickVitale]

It is really simple---people hear that stuff everywhere...just look at the political race today and there it is--in your local community- there it is turn on the TV etc etc---why can this just be about sports and leave the other crap for someplace else

Because it is SPORTS reality, and you people would rather put blinders on and not face what is real...Maybe because YOU are the beneficiaries the majority of the time....The INITIAL topic was about how The SOC basketball 4-peat was being intentionally overlooked by some, including their own Dallas media..I was asking how people in SE Texas felt about it..THAT is about high school boys basketball, is it not?...Yet the thread was deleted....No cursing, no bashing, just REAL discussion...For once.

[Guest nostradamus]

I have read this thread and decided not to post until now because most points could be argued until people are blue in the face.

My problem is there are too many generalizations and stereotypes thrown out when it comes to race discussions.  There is too much speculation without factual evidence to back it up.  There are too many assumptions regarding actions without the research to justify it.

IMO, that is why it gets so heated.

[JS]

It is really simple---people hear that stuff everywhere...just look at the political race today and there it is--in your local community- there it is turn on the TV etc etc---why can this just be about sports and leave the other crap for someplace else

Because it is SPORTS reality, and you people would rather put blinders on and not face what is real...Maybe because YOU are the beneficiaries the majority of the time....The INITIAL topic was about how The SOC basketball 4-peat was being intentionally overlooked by some, including their own Dallas media..I was asking how people in SE Texas felt about it..THAT is about high school boys basketball, is it not?...Yet the thread was deleted....No cursing, no bashing, just REAL discussion...For once.

Okay Dicky---I am WHITE and my SON is white and we have also been on the receiving end----there are not many white DBs in D-1 and I was told point blank by several recruiter why that was--RACE--yet we don't gripe and complain--we just deal with it---nobody on here says it does not exist--of coarse it does---but it exists both ways  just get over it or take it somewhere else-----really gets old

[shorttexas1]

It is really simple---people hear that stuff everywhere...just look at the political race today and there it is--in your local community- there it is turn on the TV etc etc---why can this just be about sports and leave the other crap for someplace else

Because it is SPORTS reality, and you people would rather put blinders on and not face what is real...Maybe because YOU are the beneficiaries the majority of the time....The INITIAL topic was about how The SOC basketball 4-peat was being intentionally overlooked by some, including their own Dallas media..I was asking how people in SE Texas felt about it..THAT is about high school boys basketball, is it not?...Yet the thread was deleted....No cursing, no bashing, just REAL discussion...For once.

No one likes a winner, but I thimk it is a travesty...  This SOC team had less star power than the ones from the last 3 years so it was a real testiment to that program.   They were in no way better than Ozen or Yates talent for talent yet they won Sate!  The 6'11" kid is highly over rated BECAUSE OF HIS SIZE AND UPSIDE.  He doesn't play as well as other bigs I have seen come out of Texas... I mean Brian Boddiker, Kris Klotz, Alton Ford, perk, Bosh, and DeAndre jordan would run that kid into the ground....  So it should be national news and Texas should make it national news...  Similar to the De LaSalle program in Cali who won six State Championships in a row in football..

[Guest DickVitale]

It is really simple---people hear that stuff everywhere...just look at the political race today and there it is--in your local community- there it is turn on the TV etc etc---why can this just be about sports and leave the other crap for someplace else

Because it is SPORTS reality, and you people would rather put blinders on and not face what is real...Maybe because YOU are the beneficiaries the majority of the time....The INITIAL topic was about how The SOC basketball 4-peat was being intentionally overlooked by some, including their own Dallas media..I was asking how people in SE Texas felt about it..THAT is about high school boys basketball, is it not?...Yet the thread was deleted....No cursing, no bashing, just REAL discussion...For once.

Okay Dicky---I am WHITE and my SON is white and we have also been on the receiving end----there are not many white DBs in D-1 and I was told point blank by several recruiter why that was--RACE--yet we don't gripe and complain--we just deal with it---nobody on here says it does not exist--of coarse it does---but it exists both ways  just get over it or take it somewhere else-----really gets old

You are talking about being evaluated on something that is tangible (speed and athletic ability) vs. being discriminated against because of your skin color...TOTALLY DIFFERENT...Most DB's are speedy and athletic..If you were fairly evaluated and that was the outcome, then, that is what it is...However, the mere fact that these kids are being slighted by most people is just plain wrong, and I will say it again..If it were Katy, or Plano or Southlake, THEY WOULD BE CELEBRATING these kids accomplishments all over the respective cities, not trying downplay it, or give excuses why it "should not be counted".  Sorry for your disappointment, but, your lack of athlticism does not count as a discrimnatory act.

[shorttexas1]

It is really simple---people hear that stuff everywhere...just look at the political race today and there it is--in your local community- there it is turn on the TV etc etc---why can this just be about sports and leave the other crap for someplace else

Because it is SPORTS reality, and you people would rather put blinders on and not face what is real...Maybe because YOU are the beneficiaries the majority of the time....The INITIAL topic was about how The SOC basketball 4-peat was being intentionally overlooked by some, including their own Dallas media..I was asking how people in SE Texas felt about it..THAT is about high school boys basketball, is it not?...Yet the thread was deleted....No cursing, no bashing, just REAL discussion...For once.

Okay Dicky---I am WHITE and my SON is white and we have also been on the receiving end----there are not many white DBs in D-1 and I was told point blank by several recruiter why that was--RACE--yet we don't gripe and complain--we just deal with it---nobody on here says it does not exist--of coarse it does---but it exists both ways  just get over it or take it somewhere else-----really gets old

I sorry about your son but it takes a special kid to be John Lynch or Jason Seahorn.  The issue is speed not color, even though recently color = speed.  Falgout is the most talented white DB that has come out of this area in a while...  I would love to see him on the next level (not sure where he is going).  But in actuality your son is experiencing what our fathers and grand faters and ancestors dealt with for generations.  200 plus years no Black was good enough.  And they did not get the opportunity to prove otherwise, at least your son has that opportunity.  Baseball, football, basketball, golf, tennis, etc. we weren't even looked at and now we rule couple of those sports.  I am sorry for what you experience with your son but the tables have turned and now you may have to deal with that for a couple of hundred years too.  I know, I know, it just doesn't feel good!

[JS]

It is really simple---people hear that stuff everywhere...just look at the political race today and there it is--in your local community- there it is turn on the TV etc etc---why can this just be about sports and leave the other crap for someplace else

Because it is SPORTS reality, and you people would rather put blinders on and not face what is real...Maybe because YOU are the beneficiaries the majority of the time....The INITIAL topic was about how The SOC basketball 4-peat was being intentionally overlooked by some, including their own Dallas media..I was asking how people in SE Texas felt about it..THAT is about high school boys basketball, is it not?...Yet the thread was deleted....No cursing, no bashing, just REAL discussion...For once.

Okay Dicky---I am WHITE and my SON is white and we have also been on the receiving end----there are not many white DBs in D-1 and I was told point blank by several recruiter why that was--RACE--yet we don't gripe and complain--we just deal with it---nobody on here says it does not exist--of coarse it does---but it exists both ways  just get over it or take it somewhere else-----really gets old

You are talking about being evaluated on something that is tangible (speed and athletic ability) vs. being discriminated against because of your skin color...TOTALLY DIFFERENT...Most DB's are speedy and athletic..If you were fairly evaluated and that was to outcome, then that is what it is...However, the mere fact that these kids are being slighted by most people is just plain wrong, and I will say it again..If it were Katy, or Plano or Southlake, THEY WOULD BE CELEBRATING these kids accomplishments all over the respective cities, not trying downplay it, or give excuses why it "should not be counted".  Sorry for your disappointment, but, your lack of athlticism does not count as a discrimnatory act.

Now you are being plain ole ignorant---faster 40, faster shuttle, higher vertical--better stats everywhere------and TOD point blank----the point is it goes both ways---Willie Horton ring a bell?

[Guest nostradamus]

So it should be national news and Texas should make it national news...

It is an unbelievable feat and definitely one of a kind.  However, they are being investigated right now for playing an ineligible player.  Whether or not anything comes of it remains to be seen. I applaud the coach for keeping himself and his program low key until the dust settles.  He is a very smart man and good coach.

I am sorry for what you experience with your son but the tables have turned and now you may have to deal with that for a couple of hundred years too.  I know, I know, it just doesn't feel good!

So one good turn deserves another?  So because it was done years and years ago it makes it okay to do it back?  One thing is for sure......we all have one Maker and He does not believe in this theory.

[shorttexas1]

It is really simple---people hear that stuff everywhere...just look at the political race today and there it is--in your local community- there it is turn on the TV etc etc---why can this just be about sports and leave the other crap for someplace else

Because it is SPORTS reality, and you people would rather put blinders on and not face what is real...Maybe because YOU are the beneficiaries the majority of the time....The INITIAL topic was about how The SOC basketball 4-peat was being intentionally overlooked by some, including their own Dallas media..I was asking how people in SE Texas felt about it..THAT is about high school boys basketball, is it not?...Yet the thread was deleted....No cursing, no bashing, just REAL discussion...For once.

Okay Dicky---I am WHITE and my SON is white and we have also been on the receiving end----there are not many white DBs in D-1 and I was told point blank by several recruiter why that was--RACE--yet we don't gripe and complain--we just deal with it---nobody on here says it does not exist--of coarse it does---but it exists both ways  just get over it or take it somewhere else-----really gets old

You are talking about being evaluated on something that is tangible (speed and athletic ability) vs. being discriminated against because of your skin color...TOTALLY DIFFERENT...Most DB's are speedy and athletic..If you were fairly evaluated and that was to outcome, then that is what it is...However, the mere fact that these kids are being slighted by most people is just plain wrong, and I will say it again..If it were Katy, or Plano or Southlake, THEY WOULD BE CELEBRATING these kids accomplishments all over the respective cities, not trying downplay it, or give excuses why it "should not be counted".  Sorry for your disappointment, but, your lack of athlticism does not count as a discrimnatory act.

Now you are being plain ole ignorant---faster 40, faster shuttle, higher vertical--better stats everywhere------and TOD point blank----the point is it goes both ways---Willie Horton ring a bell?

the baseball player?

[shorttexas1]

So it should be national news and Texas should make it national news...

It is an unbelievable feat and definitely one of a kind.  However, they are being investigated right now for playing an ineligible player.  Whether or not anything comes of it remains to be seen. I applaud the coach for keeping himself and his program low key until the dust settles.  He is a very smart man and good coach.

I am sorry for what you experience with your son but the tables have turned and now you may have to deal with that for a couple of hundred years too.  I know, I know, it just doesn't feel good!

So one good turn deserves another?  So because it was done years and years ago it makes it okay to do it back?  One thing is for sure......we all have one Maker and He does not believe in this theory.

I did not say it was OK...  I said i feel the pain... It is something that has been experienced before...  Neglect because of color...

[Guest DickVitale]

SOMETHING had to be a deciding factor, other than race, or that coach was just plain retarded...Was he a white coach?...That would be crazy if he were.  There was NOTHING ignorant about my statement, maybe your DB should look into something else and focus on graduation...How about that? There are things that are more important than playing football...Besides, he already will have a running start heading into the work force as it is, so just be glad about that...Good luck to you both.

[Bobcat1]

I don't know if any of you read the Orangefield\Navasota thread on the girls side, but there was a black official who called the tech on our girls at the end of the game for a rule that actually doesn't exist, he was black, our team is all white, Navasota all black, does that mean it was a raciest call, who knows, but I can argue that it was. Or what about Black History Month, there is no White history month is that raciest? Black Ms. America, there is not White Ms. America, raciest? And I read that this is SETX that is just how we are, wait, don't GENERALIZE me! In the words and Mr. Dick "you don't know me!" Like I said before, no one is saying it isn't a great accomplishment, it is! It's a HUGE deal, but how do we know it wasn't written about at all? Or maybe the people in Dallas aren't basketball nuts like the people in SETX and maybe aren't to intrested? WHO KNOWS EXCATLY WHY. The Beaumont Enterprise hardly ever writes about the girls sports does that make them sexist?

[Guest nostradamus]

Besides, he already will have a running start heading into the work force as it is, so just be glad about that

See, stuff like that man.....  An unwarranted generalization that stereotypes and groups an entire nation of people into one lump through speculation.

Completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

[Guest OFballer]

Wahhh! :'( 

You guys sound like a bunch of friggin babies! Quit trying to play the race card on everything. Realize the importance of SELF-empowerment. Adapt, improvise and overcome.

I think that SOC is not getting enough recognition because of the black cloud that is following their program, not the black kids in the program. Quit crying!

[shorttexas1]

I don't know if any of you read the Orangefield\Navasota thread on the girls side, but there was a black official who called the tech on our girls at the end of the game for a rule that actually doesn't exist, he was black, our team is all white, Navasota all black, does that mean it was a raciest call, who knows, but I can argue that it was.  Or what about Black History Month, there is no White history month is that raciest?  Black Ms. America, there is not White Ms. America, raciest?   And I read that this is SETX that is just how we are, wait, don't GENERALIZE me! In the words and Mr. Dick "you don't know me!" Like I said before, no one is saying it isn't a great accomplishment, it is! It's a HUGE deal, but how do we know it wasn't written about at all? Or maybe the people in Dallas aren't basketball nuts like the people in SETX and maybe aren't to intrested? WHO KNOWS EXCATLY WHY.  The Beaumont Enterprise hardly ever writes about the girls sports does that make them sexist?

Because White History is taught every month... The reason it was created is because it was not part of regular school curriculum to teach any Black History!

I think the enterprise is sexiest yes... racist yes!!!  Central won state in the 4 by 1 and broke the national record in 2001 and there was never a story printed in the interprise...  Central and Ozen girls had thier best seasons ever (both were ranked in top 15) and there were no articles running..

[Guest DickVitale]

Besides, he already will have a running start heading into the work force as it is, so just be glad about that

See, stuff like that man.....  An unwarranted generalization that stereotypes and groups an entire nation of people into one lump through speculation.

Completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

Is it not true, though? Please, be honest with yourself...Little Brad who graduates from Sam Houston State will have more opportunity than little Jamaal who graduates from Prairie View A&M...Not because he is smarter either...It is sad, but true...Hopefully CHANGE is coming....hopefully....

I don't know if any of you read the Orangefield\Navasota thread on the girls side, but there was a black official who called the tech on our girls at the end of the game for a rule that actually doesn't exist, he was black, our team is all white, Navasota all black, does that mean it was a raciest call, who knows, but I can argue that it was.  Or what about Black History Month, there is no White history month is that raciest?  Black Ms. America, there is not White Ms. America, raciest?   And I read that this is SETX that is just how we are, wait, don't GENERALIZE me! In the words and Mr. Dick "you don't know me!" Like I said before, no one is saying it isn't a great accomplishment, it is! It's a HUGE deal, but how do we know it wasn't written about at all? Or maybe the people in Dallas aren't basketball nuts like the people in SETX and maybe aren't to intrested? WHO KNOWS EXCATLY WHY.  The Beaumont Enterprise hardly ever writes about the girls sports does that make them sexist?

Because White History is taught every month... The reason it was created is because it was not part of regular school curriculum to teach any Black History!

I the the enterprise is sexiest yes... racist yes!!!  Central won state in the 4 by 1 and broke the national record in 2001 and there was never a story printed in the interprise...  Central and Ozen girls had thier best seasons ever (both were ranked in top 15) and there were no articles running..

And THAT was my next point...thanks shortt...Just pick up your local school text book and see who is featured in it...That will explain why kids NEED a MONTH to focus on black history...Otherwise it will not be seen AT ALL.

[ozens fastest@1906]

It is really simple---people hear that stuff everywhere...just look at the political race today and there it is--in your local community- there it is turn on the TV etc etc---why can this just be about sports and leave the other crap for someplace else

Because it is SPORTS reality, and you people would rather put blinders on and not face what is real...Maybe because YOU are the beneficiaries the majority of the time....The INITIAL topic was about how The SOC basketball 4-peat was being intentionally overlooked by some, including their own Dallas media..I was asking how people in SE Texas felt about it..THAT is about high school boys basketball, is it not?...Yet the thread was deleted....No cursing, no bashing, just REAL discussion...For once.

Okay Dicky---I am WHITE and my SON is white and we have also been on the receiving end----there are not many white DBs in D-1 and I was told point blank by several recruiter why that was--RACE--yet we don't gripe and complain--we just deal with it---nobody on here says it does not exist--of coarse it does---but it exists both ways  just get over it or take it somewhere else-----really gets old

I sorry about your son but it takes a special kid to be John Lynch or Jason Seahorn.  The issue is speed not color, even though recently color = speed.  Falgout is the most talented white DB that has come out of this area in a while...  I would love to see him on the next level (not sure where he is going).  But in actuality your son is experiencing what our fathers and grand faters and ancestors dealt with for generations.  200 plus years no Black was good enough.  And they did not get the opportunity to prove otherwise, at least your son has that opportunity.  Baseball, football, basketball, golf, tennis, etc. we weren't even looked at and now we rule couple of those sports.  I am sorry for what you experience with your son but the tables have turned and now you may have to deal with that for a couple of hundred years too.  I know, I know, it just doesn't feel good!

To elaborate a little bit more on this situation, for years parents of kids whom happen to be black and who were highschool QB's were told that their child would no longer play the postion of QB not b/c he lacked speed, not b/c he lacked accuracy, not b/c he lacked arm strength, not b/c he lacked a 6'4 frame, not b/c he lacked a higher enough score on his test that happened to qualify him to even recieve a scholarship. But b/c of a coach would never start a black QB. But in this case and point Short is correct, it's not race or the color of skin but pure athletic ability. It's like that at every level the most athletic will play DB. It's very rare that a McGuffie pops up (a white kid who runs 4.4 and has Reggie Bush type moves) Just like it's rare that you wil find a black kicker like Vinaterie. The two fastes white guys to ever play football to my knowledge and I will probably be corrected in less than 5 minutes where Tim Dwight and Jason Seahorn and they were just gifted athletes never had anything to do with their color or race. Same situation your son is in, he may not have the athletisicm that they are looking for at that position...

[JS]

The black QB comment is 100% accurate---they were not( and some still are not) given the opportunity because of their skin color---the opposite exists now for white DBs---my son will play for a very fine university on a full ride----and I am NOT complaining---just pointing out that this stuff goes on both ways

Some act like they have had an epiphany or it has been revealed to only them and the poor dumb slobs around them must be educated---we all know it is there---my point is we do not need to poop in our own house---just deal with it

[shorttexas1]

It is being dealt with... It will be dealt with... It is a part of life...

[shorttexas1]

Besides, he already will have a running start heading into the work force as it is, so just be glad about that

See, stuff like that man.....  An unwarranted generalization that stereotypes and groups an entire nation of people into one lump through speculation.

Completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

Is it not true, though? Please, be honest with yourself...Little Brad who graduates from Sam Houston State will have more opportunity than little Jamaal who graduates from Prairie View A&M...Not because he is smarter either...It is sad, but true...Hopefully CHANGE is coming....hopefully....

I don't know if any of you read the Orangefield\Navasota thread on the girls side, but there was a black official who called the tech on our girls at the end of the game for a rule that actually doesn't exist, he was black, our team is all white, Navasota all black, does that mean it was a raciest call, who knows, but I can argue that it was.  Or what about Black History Month, there is no White history month is that raciest?  Black Ms. America, there is not White Ms. America, raciest?   And I read that this is SETX that is just how we are, wait, don't GENERALIZE me! In the words and Mr. Dick "you don't know me!" Like I said before, no one is saying it isn't a great accomplishment, it is! It's a HUGE deal, but how do we know it wasn't written about at all? Or maybe the people in Dallas aren't basketball nuts like the people in SETX and maybe aren't to intrested? WHO KNOWS EXCATLY WHY.  The Beaumont Enterprise hardly ever writes about the girls sports does that make them sexist?

Because White History is taught every month... The reason it was created is because it was not part of regular school curriculum to teach any Black History!

I the the enterprise is sexiest yes... racist yes!!!  Central won state in the 4 by 1 and broke the national record in 2001 and there was never a story printed in the interprise...  Central and Ozen girls had thier best seasons ever (both were ranked in top 15) and there were no articles running..

And THAT was my next point...thanks shortt...Just pick up your local school text book and see who is featured in it...That will explain why kids NEED a MONTH to focus on black history...Otherwise it will not be seen AT ALL.

What's sad is they only get 1 month...

It should be part of the curriculum just like all history...  It should follow the time line...  It should be just HISTORY not HIS Story!

[dayton]

very valid points, but....

If Diamond-J's son isn't fast or quick enough, I'm not sure who is.