21-3A

[Cat22]

But the real question is:  Are any of these programs really considered "great"?

Depends on what your definition of "great" is?  Does "great" mean winning state championships or does "great" mean consistently going two or three rounds deep in the playoffs.  Personally I think there are very few "great" girls basketball programs in the state (ex. Canyon I would consider great).  There are some very good programs in this area that year end and year out can compete with anyone in the state.

[Guest nostradamus]

I am anxiously awaiting bleedorange's definition of "great".  On another thread he lead reader's to believe that he knows what "great" is.  I can't wait to be enlightened.

[whsalum]

But the real question is:  Are any of these programs really considered "great"?

I don't think the definition of a great program can be judged on wins and losses.For example a recent boys program had multiple state titles but couldn't get the kids on the bus to make the trip home.So you had a great team but a program that lacked a lot to be desired.Using this analogy you have several great programs in the state that have never won a state title.Which brings up another debate.Would you rather have a great program or a great team? ;)

[Guest bleed orange]

I am anxiously awaiting bleedorange's definition of "great".  On another thread he lead reader's to believe that he knows what "great" is.  I can't wait to be enlightened.

I don't see any programs or players from this area being "Great". What I see is good high school programs that feed off of good little dribbler programs. If you look at the schools that have been successful in this area over the last ten years most of them have very good youth basketball programs. I understand you have to have talent also, but lack of talent can be overcome with discipline and hard work. My definition of great is someone who is in the hall of fame. Even in professional sports you have way more good players than great players. Terrel Owen is not great to me even if he thinks he is. He is just a good player, little over rated to me but good.  You will have to refresh my memory on the other thread. Too long ago can't remember.

To answer Whsalum question. I would rather have a great program than a great team. Great programs tend to last a lot longer. I feel like the girls program at Orangefield is good not great. I'll take good anyday.

Did I enlighten you "Nostradamus" with my wisdom? With age "wisdom" is the only thing you gain because it sure is not eyesight. :'( :'( :'(

[Guest nostradamus]

Great programs tend to last a lot longer.

By this assessment, there are several "great" programs in this area.  You mentioned it in the Orangefield v. HJ football thread.  I happen to believe there are several "great" basketball programs in this area and they have all the qualities of a "great" program.

As for your Hall of Fame reference, there are also many "great" players that are not in the Hall of Fame.  How can something that biased sportswriters vote on be considered the definition of "great"?

[Guest bleed orange]

Great programs tend to last a lot longer.

By this assessment, there are several "great" programs in this area.  You mentioned it in the Orangefield v. HJ football thread.  I happen to believe there are several "great" basketball programs in this area and they have all the qualities of a "great" program.

As for your Hall of Fame reference, there are also many "great" players that are not in the Hall of Fame.  How can something that biased sportswriters vote on be considered the definition of "great"?

Sports writers go by stats also, not like coaches. Let me ask you a question? What programs do you think are "Great" from this area?

[Guest nostradamus]

Boys:

Ozen

Kountze

HJ

Silsbee (could argue for or against for lack of appearances in Austin)

EC (see Silsbee)

Girls:

Kountze

Silsbee

Orangefield (see Silsbee above)

[AggiesAreWe]

Boys:

Ozen

Kountze

HJ

Silsbee (could argue for or against for lack of appearances in Austin)

EC (see Silsbee)

Girls:

Kountze

Silsbee

Orangefield (see Silsbee above)

I agree with all this Nos. But to clarify, Silsbee has gone to the state tourney 4 times, '72, '76,'83,'08. That's not but 1 or 2 less than what HJ and Ozen have gone. Kountze has gone 9 times. Actually, I lump Ozen in with the Hebert stats which would give them 3 more appearances plus 3 more state titles, but that's just me.

Biggest difference is that Kountze, Ozen, and HJ have state championships. As for appearances though, the Tigers are not as far behind as some think. They are the only team in 3A in the last 4 years(which happens to be how long Silsbee has been in 3A) that has made the regional final 3 out of the 4 years. The other year was when they lost to WOS in the third round, who went on to Austin.

I think the word "great" is in the eye of the beholder. Many interpretations of that.

[Bobcat1]

You would say Silsbee girls have a "great" program?  ???

[Guest bleed orange]

Boys:

Ozen

Kountze

HJ

Silsbee (could argue for or against for lack of appearances in Austin)

EC (see Silsbee)

Girls:

Kountze

Silsbee

Orangefield (see Silsbee above)

All of those are good choices and those programs should be commended for their success. I think HJ should be mentioned on the girls side but that was your opinion and I respect that. I will never say Orangefield is a great program, one reason is because I am from Orangefield plus you are right in my opinion (Lack of State Tournament Appearances) also there is always room for improvement. To be honest with you I am proud of the basketball in southeast Texas(Golden triangle) baseball and softball. All three of those sports took a back seat to football for a long time but not anymore. We are making a name for ourself's and it is because of those three sports. I would like to see the girls programs get more recognition. I want us (Southeast Texas) to be known state wide in every sport but some years are good and some are not so good that's just the way it is. I think for our small section of Texas we hold our own against the mega cities like Houston and Dallas. It just proves we have good kids who are willing to go that extra mile if needed. Also we have great Parent's who are willing to go that extra mile for their kids.

[Guest bleed orange]

You would say Silsbee girls have a "great" program?  ???

I think he is talking about the boys 05. But your right Aggie, the view is in the eye's of the beholder. I tend not to use the word "Great" because there are times when talent is lean and it happens to everyone sooner or later. Now I would say my cooking is great. Just ask my wife. She will agree because she does not have to cook anymore. ;D ;D ;D

[Guest nostradamus]

Aggies,

Forgive me, I honestly didn't know Silsbee had that many appearances.  I knew of two and that was it.  That, IMO, makes them great, no doubt.

Bleed,

My assessment of great is that of a program that has long standing success with state tournament and state championship credentials mixed in.  Every school has their down years but, the great ones down years are not near as bad as others and are few and far between.

[Guest nostradamus]

I hesitated to put HJ girls in there only because they have had several spurts of down years over the last 20 years.......but overall, yes, it would be considered a great program.

[Guest bleed orange]

Aggies,

Forgive me, I honestly didn't know Silsbee had that many appearances.  I knew of two and that was it.  That, IMO, makes them great, no doubt.

Bleed,

My assessment of great is that of a program that has long standing success with state tournament and state championship credentials mixed in.  Every school has their down years but, the great ones down years are not near as bad as others and are few and far between.

Lets say back in 1983 on down. I don't know how old you are but back then the district champion only advanced to the playoffs. If you had a team who had a winning season every year but never made it to the playoffs because one of the teams in the district was ranked in the top 10 every year, what would you consider that team? Just asking , This is good conversation. Buy the way I agree with your assessment.

[Bobcat1]

Has the Silsbee girls team even been to Huntsville much less Austin?

[Guest tigersvoice]

Has the Silsbee girls team even been to Huntsville much less Austin?

Keep it up Bobcat05.  This will eventually come back to haunt/hurt you.  Your Orangefield

program is great.  What is your problem with a few Silsbee accolades?

[AggiesAreWe]

Has the Silsbee girls team even been to Huntsville much less Austin?

The Silsbee girls basketball team has been to Austin 3 times. Twice in a three year span when they had LaQuan Stallworth and Brandi McCain. Stallworth went on to star at Lousiana Tech when it was still a power and McCain was a star at Florida and then was drafted in the WNBA.

To my knowledge, Orangefield has never made it to Austin.

[Guest nostradamus]

bleed,

I think that 1983 and before, yes, there were probably great teams and programs that did not make the playoffs.  Since the UIL bases its districts and playoffs on location rather than strength......I personally would think that there were many great teams left out because of a single slip up.

[Bobcat1]

No no no, I love Silsbee, and I think they have a VERY VERY class act for a coach.  I'm a youngin'.  I haven't been around long enough to know about Silsbee's girls history, I was asking not trying to stir the pot. I leave that to the big leaguers on this board.

Sorry. I honestly didn't know. 

Orangefield hasn't been, you're correct. 

So, maybe this is 'kinda' stirring something, but would anyone consider WOS girls program as a good/great program they had a lot of sucess when the Brittanys were there. 

[Guest nostradamus]

not enough long standing success/tradition

[jr1979]

not enough long standing success/tradition

YOU'RE CORRECT. THEY WERE GOOD FOR A WHILE WHEN COACH SPOON WAS THE COACH, IN THE LATE 80'S TO EARLY 90'S, AND THEN FELL OFF. THEY REEMRGED IN 2003-2007, BUT THAT STREAK IS GONE FOR A WHILE NOW.

[luvdgame07]

Hello to all of the great BBall fans of 21 -3A.  being in this district for the past 2 years has really helped our LadyBulldogs up here in Jasper.  We are excited about the season.  it seems like yesterday when we were talkin about the 08 - 09 season and wow it's here!  looking forward to communicating with you all throughout the season.  Good Luck!!!! ;D

[hjhawks]

Hello to all of the great BBall fans of 21 -3A.  being in this district for the past 2 years has really helped our LadyBulldogs up here in Jasper.  We are excited about the season.  it seems like yesterday when we were talkin about the 08 - 09 season and wow it's here!  looking forward to communicating with you all throughout the season.  Good Luck!!!! ;D

Jasper ended the season well.... .good luck to the lady bulldogs this year....

[Jdad]

I am a little surprised that you are not sure about HJ's program and how successful they have been, a little knowledge might change your mind. Lets start with REGIONAL CHAMPIONS

( thats teams who made it to State ) 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 91, 01,  STATE CHAMPIONS 1986,1989 and there are 2 more years they made it to reginals but missed State. You can also add 97, 99, 00,01,04 BI-District Champions. Now I believe there is not another girls team with those kind of numbers and Kountze would probably be the closest. As for Bleed comments on Little Dribblers you can see where our Little Dribblers program started and the boys and girls teams started winning.

[Guest tigersvoice]

I am a little surprised that you are not sure about HJ's program and how successful they have been, a little knowledge might change your mind. Lets start with REGIONAL CHAMPIONS

( thats teams who made it to State ) 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 91, 01,  STATE CHAMPIONS 1986,1989 and there are 2 more years they made it to reginals but missed State. You can also add 97, 99, 00,01,04 BI-District Champions. Now I believe there is not another girls team with those kind of numbers and Kountze would probably be the closest. As for Bleed comments on Little Dribblers you can see where our Little Dribblers program started and the boys and girls teams started winning.

Hardin-Jefferson Girls Basketball does not need to explain themselves to anyone.  They are the CLASS of DISTRICT 21-3A this season.  There is no argument here.