Big Ray for Big Red

[AggiesAreWe]

Football is doomed at Lamar because Tubbs didn't follow UNLV's advice!!   ;D

Let's just hope UNLV is not a financial advisor, otherwise I feel for his clients, they are doomed. ;D

[Guest abovetherim]

Don't you get tired of responding to my repeats?     Joining the SLC in football means no FBS. If Terror is right, and I know he is although I hate to admit it, Lamar

will join the SLC in football in 2012. The same year UTSA, Texas st, and SHSU will be leaving.

Lamar will join the SLC in football in 2012. I do believe at the current time that SHSU and Texas St-San Marcos will be there as well. As far as UTSA goes, the Commish won't let them into the SLC if they announce officially they are going FBS and will use the SLC for a year or two to help them fill the slate.

The moratorium has yet to be lifted. There's no proof that FBS will have a playoff when the contract comes up again. I'm just not convinced and the moratorium is the ultimate curveball.

Texas Terror, I'm too happy to argue today but why do you keep saying 2012 when I live in the Golden Triangle and I am currently a booster for the athletic department and I am a student. Everyone I talk to says 2011. Lamar will not play as a independent for 3 years. That was one of the things that doomed the football program in 1989.

[Guest tigersvoice]

As long as we have alot of good local recruits there will be people!! This will work!!

As long as we have a lot of good recruits, local or not, and we win, there will be people.  This has to be done right, and limiting your talent pool to local kids is not the way to go.

Get the BEST you can get from WHERE EVER they will come.  Lamar will get its share of the local talent, but the exceptional talent will continue to go to the "Big" schools.

[Guest abovetherim]

The vast majority but not all. There is the academic side of things that could keep a star athlete away from the larger school. Think of it this way a few years ago in the state a Florida all you heard about was FSU, Miami and Florida. Now, you have FAU, USF, UCF and Florida International making noise in DI football in the state of Florida.

[TexasTerror]

Texas Terror, I'm too happy to argue today but why do you keep saying 2012 when I live in the Golden Triangle and I am currently a booster for the athletic department and I am a student. Everyone I talk to says 2011. Lamar will not play as a independent for 3 years. That was one of the things that doomed the football program in 1989.

2012 means you are only an independent for two years. 2009, the non-football year, does not count IMO. It would be consistent with other schools. Southeastern Louisiana played as an independent for two years before entering the SLC in 2005. Old Dominion is playing as an independent in 2009 and 2010 before joining the CAA.

The SLC would more than likely enter an agreement with Lamar that they will do what they can to help with schedule. Lamar would probably play a nice chunk of Southland schools in 2011 with a minimal amount in 2010 (you'll want to play sub-Div Is that year for the most part).

I'm adamantly against Lamar joining the SLC in 2010 and just as adamant about them not joining in 2011. That is just how things are run appropriately. If Lamar wants to do the "right thing", they'll join in 2012.

[PURPLE 4EVER]

As long as we have alot of good local recruits there will be people!! This will work!!

As long as we have a lot of good recruits, local or not, and we win, there will be people.  This has to be done right, and limiting your talent pool to local kids is not the way to go.

Get the BEST you can get from WHERE EVER they will come.  Lamar will get its share of the local talent, but the exceptional talent will continue to go to the "Big" schools.

This is what hurt the football program in the 80's...

You can't assume the best of the best talent in the golden triangle will want to play at Lamar.

Given the options, if a kid has a chance of playing at UT, or A&M, or Oklahoma, or stay and play at Lamar, unless he is a momma's boy, he is going to go away.

As a member of the Lamar football team in it's last year of existence, I believe given one more year, Alborn would have had a winning season.  We did have local talent, but it was the best of the local talent.

The bottom line is that all the alums need to get behind Woodard and support the program.

I may live on a teachers salary, but I will budget money for season tickets.

To all those at Lamar involved in this process...

GOOD LUCK!!

[Guest coachacola]

I bet Lamar and the SLC haven't worked out the details about when Lamar can compete for the title.  They'll probably play at least some SLC teams in 2011, but I bet a lot of it depends on how many schools can fit Lamar into their schedules.

And talking about Lamar football in the 80's, I think the killing of the program had more to do with the financial state of Lamar and SETX in general than attendance.  For instance, in Rush Woods' article he says:

Despite fielding an explosive offense that twice put up over 40 points in a game, that team failed to generate big numbers at the turnstiles. The Cardinals averaged 5,999 fans for their four home games that season.

Lamar averaged about 6K per game when Lamar was independent and everyone knew they would probably do away with football, plus the local economy was in the pits with unemployment over 9% and people were leaving SETX. 

Compare 5,999 to what the schools in the SLC averaged last year:

McNeese:    12,819

Texas State: 11,408

Central Ark:    10,283

SHSU:            9,627

SFA:              8,480

NW State:      7,977

Nicholls:        5,383

SELA:            4,951

Lamar wouldn't even be last in attendance.  Now Lamar has a steady source of income to help support football, the local economy is healthy and will stay healthy for a while, Lamar's financial situation is vastly superior than back then, Lamar is guaranteed a conference to play, and Lamar will have top-notch facilities now.  Football will definitely prosper this time around.

[TexasTerror]

I bet Lamar and the SLC haven't worked out the details about when Lamar can compete for the title.  They'll probably play at least some SLC teams in 2011, but I bet a lot of it depends on how many schools can fit Lamar into their schedules.

Lamar can compete for the title the second they get into the conference. In fact, in year one, if they did what they needed to do (seven Div I wins), they could be eligible for playoff selection as there's not a transition period as there would be if you came up from Division II. You guys are already Division I.

As it relates to schedules, I have created a page on KatFans.com which lists future scheduling as much as we know them. It's not a great list, but is the only list of it's kind amongst the SLC fan sites. Once Lamar announces games and I am sure they'll do what they can in announcing them as they come together, we'll add them. Here's the link:

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Another factor I am interested in -- will McNeese and Lamar hook up in the final week of the season? If they do, does this mean that Central Arkansas will have a BYE week in the final week of the regular season? Probably would. Wonder if they'd try to schedule someone that week or do what Gateway teams do and try to get a BYE before the playoffs.

2012, if I am not mistaken, is a 12-game year (extra week in the calendar as far as football goes).

[HouTexan]

I bet Lamar and the SLC haven't worked out the details about when Lamar can compete for the title.  They'll probably play at least some SLC teams in 2011, but I bet a lot of it depends on how many schools can fit Lamar into their schedules.

And talking about Lamar football in the 80's, I think the killing of the program had more to do with the financial state of Lamar and SETX in general than attendance.  For instance, in Rush Woods' article he says:

Despite fielding an explosive offense that twice put up over 40 points in a game, that team failed to generate big numbers at the turnstiles. The Cardinals averaged 5,999 fans for their four home games that season.

Lamar averaged about 6K per game when Lamar was independent and everyone knew they would probably do away with football, plus the local economy was in the pits with unemployment over 9% and people were leaving SETX. 

Compare 5,999 to what the schools in the SLC averaged last year:

McNeese:     12,819

Texas State: 11,408

Central Ark:    10,283

SHSU:            9,627

SFA:              8,480

NW State:      7,977

Nicholls:         5,383

SELA:            4,951

Lamar wouldn't even be last in attendance.  Now Lamar has a steady source of income to help support football, the local economy is healthy and will stay healthy for a while, Lamar's financial situation is vastly superior than back then, Lamar is guaranteed a conference to play, and Lamar will have top-notch facilities now.  Football will definitely prosper this time around.

Some interesting attendance figures that plays into the FBS requirements. Unless it has changed recently, in order to be FBS there are stringent attendance requirements (these may have changed recently):

Beginning August 1, 2004, institutions were required to show the necessary degree of public support by averaging 15,000 in actual attendance (as opposed to paid attendance) each year. There was philosophical disagreement among Division I-FBS institutions as to whether or not public support measured by attendance at home football games is an appropriate criteria for determining an institution’s Division I-FBS status. Another concern was that linking Division I-FBS membership status to actual attendance was linking an important institutional identity to something outside the control of the institution.

In response to these concerns, the Division I Board of Directors adopted Proposal 2005-20, with an August 1, 2005 effective date. This rule requires that Division I-FBS institutions annually average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests once every two years. This new rule reinforced the philosophy that public support is an important component of Division I-FBS membership: it also provided relief from the 2004 attendance requirements and continued to distinguish Division I-FBS institutions from the less rigorous membership requirements to field a Division I-FCS football team.

[TexasTerror]

HouTexan,

All divisions of the NCAA are currently under a moratorium. A large part of this has to do with two factors.

1) The issue of membership numbers in Division III

2) Too many teams trying to move into Division I

You can throw out the attendance numbers for now. The NCAA is going to be re-doing their requirements as it relates to membership and I think the attendance numbers could come into play. No telling what else, but this is why Texas State-San Marcos does not announce a move now, because they have to wait for the moratorium to be lifted.

This is what UNLV and I have referenced in numerous posts on this board...

[HouTexan]

Thanks Terror. Good info to know about the moratorium (I didn't keep up with many of those posts until recently). I certainly don't want to spread any misinformation...enough of that going on

[UNLV]

Football is doomed at Lamar because Tubbs didn't follow UNLV's advice!!   ;D

Finally you understand. Will you please school this forum.

[Guest abovetherim]

Texas Terror, I'm too happy to argue today but why do you keep saying 2012 when I live in the Golden Triangle and I am currently a booster for the athletic department and I am a student. Everyone I talk to says 2011. Lamar will not play as a independent for 3 years. That was one of the things that doomed the football program in 1989.

2012 means you are only an independent for two years. 2009, the non-football year, does not count IMO. It would be consistent with other schools. Southeastern Louisiana played as an independent for two years before entering the SLC in 2005. Old Dominion is playing as an independent in 2009 and 2010 before joining the CAA.

The SLC would more than likely enter an agreement with Lamar that they will do what they can to help with schedule. Lamar would probably play a nice chunk of Southland schools in 2011 with a minimal amount in 2010 (you'll want to play sub-Div Is that year for the most part).

I'm adamantly against Lamar joining the SLC in 2010 and just as adamant about them not joining in 2011. That is just how things are run appropriately. If Lamar wants to do the "right thing", they'll join in 2012.

Do you really think Billy Tubbs and Dr. Simmons care if you are adamant or not about Lamar joining the SLC for a FULL schedule in 2011? If Lamar wants to do the "right thing" they will do what is best for Lamar and our student body. After that they will worry about the SLC.

Furthermore, I don't care what SE Louisiana, ODU or any other program is doing. I promise you Lamar will be in the SLC in 2011. I think you and I have came a long way with respecting each other and our opinions. I just choose to believe what Coach Tubbs and Dr. Simmons are saying.

All you have to do is read a few articles and see I'm just stating the same information Coach Tubbs and Dr. Simmons are putting out.

[HouTexan]

I'd have to think that somewhere along the way in this process that LU has had discussions about their plans with the SLC. I'd even venture to guess that the SLC would likely want to accomodate LU as much as possible. I'm sure there is a contingency plan at the SLC for working LU into the mix in an earlier timeframe. Just my opinion.

[TexasTerror]

Do you really think Billy Tubbs and Dr. Simmons care if you are adamant or not about Lamar joining the SLC for a FULL schedule in 2011? If Lamar wants to do the "right thing" they will do what is best for Lamar and our student body. After that they will worry about the SLC.

Billy Tubbs always will do what is best for Lamar without much care if his decision(s) benefits the rest of the conference. For whatever reason and anyone affiliated with every other school will acknowledge such, he seems to have a great deal of pull as it relates to conference decisions. We'll see.

Furthermore, I don't care what SE Louisiana, ODU or any other program is doing. I promise you Lamar will be in the SLC in 2011. I think you and I have came a long way with respecting each other and our opinions. I just choose to believe what Coach Tubbs and Dr. Simmons are saying.

The best examples to learn from are models of what other schools going through a similar situation have done. Lamar needs to look at these schools and see what they have done. What is worked. What has not. According to articles, Woodward talked to a few people at schools in the same process. This is a learning experience for Tubbs and Simmons. Prior to this, they probably did not know much about football. Would like to know what Tom Burnett has to say about Lamar in the SLC in 2011.

On further thought...

I think there are benefits of Lamar joining the SLC on a full schedule in 2011, if the schools can manage it (scheduling-wise). Many of the Southland faithful (myself included) have felt that our teams have been scheduling themselves out of the playoffs. Was it this past year when the league as a whole had practically eliminated each other (outside of McNeese) from the playoffs by week two of the league slate? Unfortunately, we are in a tough situation based on our location and until this year, the lack of SWAC out of conference games (it went from two to four this year, and that's tough to break into considering they have these rivalry games OOC).

With Lamar in the SLC, you are looking at eight SLC games (four home/four away). This will make it tougher to have six home games in this set-up because most SLC schools will have one (if not two) FBS games to make in the $$$. And while you can buy sub-Div I games, it's going to be hard to buy Division I games (to avoid home-and-homes), as even the SWAC schools want that (and it makes sense). However, it does help the efforts of getting the conference in a better position to win the seven Div I games necessary to make the playoffs (outside of a team winning the automatic qualifier).

I'm not a proponent of Lamar playing a full SLC slate -- I think it will stunt the growth of the program because year three of actually playing football will be a better time for Lamar, instead of the tougher than heck rigors of SLC games week in and week out -- but it may benefit everyone in the conference outside of Lamar, which is something that Billy Tubbs typically stays away from.

[Guest abovetherim]

Texas Terror have you ever replied with one sentence?  ;D You make some very good points. However, I still think LU will play in the SLC in 2011. Maybe I'm just being foolish as we all know you are the man in the know regarding FCS football.

[TexasTerror]

Texas Terror have you ever replied with one sentence?  ;D You make some very good points. However, I still think LU will play in the SLC in 2011. Maybe I'm just being foolish as we all know you are the man in the know regarding FCS football.

My boss told me that when I used to write about FCS football, I must have gotten paid by the word, because I always wrote a bit too much when the style is keep things short. Perhaps it's best that I got out of writing about FCS football as a columnist!

I'll still waiting for the SLC to announce that Lamar will play in the league in 2011. My curiosity remains about the availability of space for Lamar to squeeze in on the schedules. There's a few schools that have games in 2011, some we know about, others we don't. Not sure how well the SLC and those involved planned for the possible addition of Lamar.