PN-G - Ned game

[akifan94]

Let me preface this by saying Nederland kicked our butts. But, I have one question about a call and I realize it had no bearing on the game. This is strictly out of my own curiosity.

After Wright ran for about a 35 yard gain in the 3rd quarter we were flagged for holding. The call was bogus, which led to McLin saying something to the ref and picking up a 15 yarder. The holding was declined. Why is it that the 15 yarder was marked off from the original LOS and we were giving a loss of down? It was after the play. If both penalties were enforced, then it should have been more yards marked off. Am I missing something here?

[badndn]

The play hapened on second down.

1. Nederland should not have declined the holding. That makes it loss of ten from the hold and repeat 2nd down. Then the 15 yard (or half the distance to the goal line) dead ball penalty (because it hapened way after the play on the way back to the huddle) should have been assesed. So it should have been 2nd down and 25+ yards to go.

2. Since Nederland declined the holding it should have been the result of the play (which was a run for first down). then the dead ball 15 yarder should have been marked off from the end of the run. And it should have been 1st and 10 from that spot...Granted Nederland would never have declined the holding to let this happen!

3. Instead the officials really botched this one and it took them 5 minutes to get it wrong! They said Nederland declined the holding and excepted the Dead Ball foul (see scenario 1). And they gave PNG the ball with a 3rd down and 20+ yards!!!

They were obviously very confussed as where both coaches (actually PNG was irrate). But in the long run it wasn't the officiating that killed PNG it was Nederland's offense and our coaches refusal to realize they were in a shootout no mater how much he hated it until it was too late!

[akifan94]

I agree. They kicked our butts. Like I said. I was just confused about the call.

[Warrior1]

i a

[GoBigBlue1997]

yeah, I think everybody got it wrong including the announcer.  At worst it should have been 2nd down and long.  It was unfortunate you were screwed out of a down, but it would not have changed much.

[Warrior1]

i am a official and what happened on the play that you guys are talking bout is this ...there was a holding call during the pla which was a great call i seen it myself but at the end of the run the line judge saw the flag for holding and assumed the play was coming back...while walkingback one of png players made a dirty comment which then got a flag threw for usports conduct..the problem was that nederland declined holding and accepted the second penalty so what should of happened was 15 yards back from the end of the run and a first down and ten ...but still yet that call did not change the game at all ...

[baddog]

The play hapened on second down.

1. Nederland should not have declined the holding. That makes it loss of ten from the hold and repeat 2nd down. Then the 15 yard (or half the distance to the goal line) dead ball penalty (because it hapened way after the play on the way back to the huddle) should have been assesed. So it should have been 2nd down and 25+ yards to go.

2. Since Nederland declined the holding it should have been the result of the play (which was a run for first down). then the dead ball 15 yarder should have been marked off from the end of the run. And it should have been 1st and 10 from that spot...Granted Nederland would never have declined the holding to let this happen!

3. Instead the officials really botched this one and it took them 5 minutes to get it wrong! They said Nederland declined the holding and excepted the Dead Ball foul (see scenario 1). And they gave PNG the ball with a 3rd down and 20+ yards!!!

They were obviously very confussed as where both coaches (actually PNG was irrate). But in the long run it wasn't the officiating that killed PNG it was Nederland's offense and our coaches refusal to realize they were in a shootout no mater how much he hated it until it was too late!

Actually, it went to 4th down and PNG punted. They never ran an offensive play in that series after the call. I lost a down there somewhere during all that. Neumann was on the field because I believe a player made the call of which penalty to accept and thus the confusion. I may be wrong. Anyway, like you said, it may have affected that series, but not the outcome of the game. Should have been PNG ball, 3rd and 20 (or whatever half the distance would have given you plus loss of down).

[GoBigBlue1997]

The play hapened on second down.

1. Nederland should not have declined the holding. That makes it loss of ten from the hold and repeat 2nd down. Then the 15 yard (or half the distance to the goal line) dead ball penalty (because it hapened way after the play on the way back to the huddle) should have been assesed. So it should have been 2nd down and 25+ yards to go.

2. Since Nederland declined the holding it should have been the result of the play (which was a run for first down). then the dead ball 15 yarder should have been marked off from the end of the run. And it should have been 1st and 10 from that spot...Granted Nederland would never have declined the holding to let this happen!

3. Instead the officials really botched this one and it took them 5 minutes to get it wrong! They said Nederland declined the holding and excepted the Dead Ball foul (see scenario 1). And they gave PNG the ball with a 3rd down and 20+ yards!!!

They were obviously very confussed as where both coaches (actually PNG was irrate). But in the long run it wasn't the officiating that killed PNG it was Nederland's offense and our coaches refusal to realize they were in a shootout no mater how much he hated it until it was too late!

Actually, it went to 4th down and PNG punted. They never ran an offensive play in that series after the call. I lost a down there somewhere during all that. Neumann was on the field because I believe a player made the call of which penalty to accept and thus the confusion. I may be wrong. Anyway, like you said, it may have affected that series, but not the outcome of the game. Should have been PNG ball, 3rd and 20 (or whatever half the distance would have given you plus loss of down).

No, they ran another play, it was pass down the sideline that almost got intercepted.

[baddog]

The play hapened on second down.

1. Nederland should not have declined the holding. That makes it loss of ten from the hold and repeat 2nd down. Then the 15 yard (or half the distance to the goal line) dead ball penalty (because it hapened way after the play on the way back to the huddle) should have been assesed. So it should have been 2nd down and 25+ yards to go.

2. Since Nederland declined the holding it should have been the result of the play (which was a run for first down). then the dead ball 15 yarder should have been marked off from the end of the run. And it should have been 1st and 10 from that spot...Granted Nederland would never have declined the holding to let this happen!

3. Instead the officials really botched this one and it took them 5 minutes to get it wrong! They said Nederland declined the holding and excepted the Dead Ball foul (see scenario 1). And they gave PNG the ball with a 3rd down and 20+ yards!!!

They were obviously very confussed as where both coaches (actually PNG was irrate). But in the long run it wasn't the officiating that killed PNG it was Nederland's offense and our coaches refusal to realize they were in a shootout no mater how much he hated it until it was too late!

Actually, it went to 4th down and PNG punted. They never ran an offensive play in that series after the call. I lost a down there somewhere during all that. Neumann was on the field because I believe a player made the call of which penalty to accept and thus the confusion. I may be wrong. Anyway, like you said, it may have affected that series, but not the outcome of the game. Should have been PNG ball, 3rd and 20 (or whatever half the distance would have given you plus loss of down).

No, they ran another play, it was pass down the sideline that almost got intercepted.

My memory is terrible. That's what I remember though. I'll have to watch the game again Tuesday night.

[GoBigBlue1997]

The play hapened on second down.

1. Nederland should not have declined the holding. That makes it loss of ten from the hold and repeat 2nd down. Then the 15 yard (or half the distance to the goal line) dead ball penalty (because it hapened way after the play on the way back to the huddle) should have been assesed. So it should have been 2nd down and 25+ yards to go.

2. Since Nederland declined the holding it should have been the result of the play (which was a run for first down). then the dead ball 15 yarder should have been marked off from the end of the run. And it should have been 1st and 10 from that spot...Granted Nederland would never have declined the holding to let this happen!

3. Instead the officials really botched this one and it took them 5 minutes to get it wrong! They said Nederland declined the holding and excepted the Dead Ball foul (see scenario 1). And they gave PNG the ball with a 3rd down and 20+ yards!!!

They were obviously very confussed as where both coaches (actually PNG was irrate). But in the long run it wasn't the officiating that killed PNG it was Nederland's offense and our coaches refusal to realize they were in a shootout no mater how much he hated it until it was too late!

Actually, it went to 4th down and PNG punted. They never ran an offensive play in that series after the call. I lost a down there somewhere during all that. Neumann was on the field because I believe a player made the call of which penalty to accept and thus the confusion. I may be wrong. Anyway, like you said, it may have affected that series, but not the outcome of the game. Should have been PNG ball, 3rd and 20 (or whatever half the distance would have given you plus loss of down).

No, they ran another play, it was pass down the sideline that almost got intercepted.

My memory is terrible. That's what I remember though. I'll have to watch the game again Tuesday night.

DVR it and you can watch it all year long baby!

[baddog]

The play hapened on second down.

1. Nederland should not have declined the holding. That makes it loss of ten from the hold and repeat 2nd down. Then the 15 yard (or half the distance to the goal line) dead ball penalty (because it hapened way after the play on the way back to the huddle) should have been assesed. So it should have been 2nd down and 25+ yards to go.

2. Since Nederland declined the holding it should have been the result of the play (which was a run for first down). then the dead ball 15 yarder should have been marked off from the end of the run. And it should have been 1st and 10 from that spot...Granted Nederland would never have declined the holding to let this happen!

3. Instead the officials really botched this one and it took them 5 minutes to get it wrong! They said Nederland declined the holding and excepted the Dead Ball foul (see scenario 1). And they gave PNG the ball with a 3rd down and 20+ yards!!!

They were obviously very confussed as where both coaches (actually PNG was irrate). But in the long run it wasn't the officiating that killed PNG it was Nederland's offense and our coaches refusal to realize they were in a shootout no mater how much he hated it until it was too late!

Actually, it went to 4th down and PNG punted. They never ran an offensive play in that series after the call. I lost a down there somewhere during all that. Neumann was on the field because I believe a player made the call of which penalty to accept and thus the confusion. I may be wrong. Anyway, like you said, it may have affected that series, but not the outcome of the game. Should have been PNG ball, 3rd and 20 (or whatever half the distance would have given you plus loss of down).

No, they ran another play, it was pass down the sideline that almost got intercepted.

My memory is terrible. That's what I remember though. I'll have to watch the game again Tuesday night.

DVR it and you can watch it all year long baby!

I will. I do remember asking the guy next to me why they accepted the unsportsmanlike penalty. I thought it was a double foul. We have had two penalties at once marched off against us before. So I though it should be 3rd down with the loss of down. The next thing I remember is PNG punting. I hope my wires aren't crossed, but it was a confusing circumstance.

[KFDM COOP]

We should have the whole game to watch this evening here on the site!

[akifan94]

We ran another play. It should have been 2nd and 20 instead of 3rd and 20. It really should have been 1st and 10 from 15 yards back of the run after Ned declined the holding penalty. If it was a great call, why did he not throw the flag until after the play was over? Watch the replay. He throws the flag after Wright has ran for 30 plus yards. Maybe he had trouble getting the flag out. Let's face it. There were several horrible calls.

1. The fair catch / non fair catch when it was obvious we called a fair catch and the PN-G guy was hit.

2. The PF on Gaspard when the WR was not even down when he dove for him.

3. The actual late hit on Wright when he and the defender rolled out of bounds and Wright was drove back down again.

4. The botched PF / holding call after taking 5 minutes to discuss it and still screw it up.

But, that is not why we lost. We lost due to a lack of game changers (people who take one handed juggling catches 74 yards for a TD on 3rd and 13). A lack of people who can field a punt or kickoff. No pressure from the ends (that was key for us last year). We were outcoached and outplayed. The refs calls were like having dirt rubbed in your eyes after getting both of them blackened.

[Layingemdown]

Your right, it was a muffed call, and I am sure the refs will hear from the right people to correct their problem.  However, I think the announcer got the decline wrong.  It should have been marked from where the hold took place, and then the 15 yds for the dead ball penalty should have been enforced from there.  It should have remained 2nd down.  They made PNG have a loss of down with the holding penalty......which is dead wrong.

Yep, it was a glitch, but you are right, I dont think it would have made a difference.  It would have been 2nd and 25 or so, instead of 3rd and 25.  The loss of down on a holding call was crap.

[Layingemdown]

We ran another play. It should have been 2nd and 20 instead of 3rd and 20. It really should have been 1st and 10 from 15 yards back of the run after Ned declined the holding penalty. If it was a great call, why did he not throw the flag until after the play was over? Watch the replay. He throws the flag after Wright has ran for 30 plus yards. Maybe he had trouble getting the flag out. Let's face it. There were several horrible calls.

1. The fair catch / non fair catch when it was obvious we called a fair catch and the PN-G guy was hit.

2. The PF on Gaspard when the WR was not even down when he dove for him.

3. The actual late hit on Wright when he and the defender rolled out of bounds and Wright was drove back down again.

4. The botched PF / holding call after taking 5 minutes to discuss it and still screw it up.

But, that is not why we lost. We lost due to a lack of game changers (people who take one handed juggling catches 74 yards for a TD on 3rd and 13). A lack of people who can field a punt or kickoff. No pressure from the ends (that was key for us last year). We were outcoached and outplayed. The refs calls were like having dirt rubbed in your eyes after getting both of them blackened.

1. The fair catch was bobbled which makes it open game.  It was bobbled or bothched right there all night, but our coaches insisted on leaving 33 in there to field it.........Our fault.

2. I know the play your talking about and that was a very crappy call.  Gaspard was already in full tackle mode before the Ned guy even hit the ground....real bad call.

3. The tackle on Wright on that play went all the way to the benches.....Unbelievable.

4. The calls were not botched....just the penalization.

[Layingemdown]

Oh yeah, our coaching staff also continues to put #1 returning punts.  I dont care how good of an athlete he is, his decision making ability to field a punt or stay away from a punt is just bad, and doesnt deserve punt returns.  Numerous times he has let punts that should be fielded go by, and tries to catch punts that should be left alone. 

Just put #15 back there, at least he catches it when he needs to.

Again another coaching problem though.

[77]

We ran another play. It should have been 2nd and 20 instead of 3rd and 20. It really should have been 1st and 10 from 15 yards back of the run after Ned declined the holding penalty. If it was a great call, why did he not throw the flag until after the play was over? Watch the replay. He throws the flag after Wright has ran for 30 plus yards. Maybe he had trouble getting the flag out. Let's face it. There were several horrible calls.

1. The fair catch / non fair catch when it was obvious we called a fair catch and the PN-G guy was hit.

2. The PF on Gaspard when the WR was not even down when he dove for him.

3. The actual late hit on Wright when he and the defender rolled out of bounds and Wright was drove back down again.

4. The botched PF / holding call after taking 5 minutes to discuss it and still screw it up.

But, that is not why we lost. We lost due to a lack of game changers (people who take one handed juggling catches 74 yards for a TD on 3rd and 13). A lack of people who can field a punt or kickoff. No pressure from the ends (that was key for us last year). We were outcoached and outplayed. The refs calls were like having dirt rubbed in your eyes after getting both of them blackened.

Glad theres never been any home cookin at the reservation. :

[akifan94]

We ran another play. It should have been 2nd and 20 instead of 3rd and 20. It really should have been 1st and 10 from 15 yards back of the run after Ned declined the holding penalty. If it was a great call, why did he not throw the flag until after the play was over? Watch the replay. He throws the flag after Wright has ran for 30 plus yards. Maybe he had trouble getting the flag out. Let's face it. There were several horrible calls.

1. The fair catch / non fair catch when it was obvious we called a fair catch and the PN-G guy was hit.

2. The PF on Gaspard when the WR was not even down when he dove for him.

3. The actual late hit on Wright when he and the defender rolled out of bounds and Wright was drove back down again.

4. The botched PF / holding call after taking 5 minutes to discuss it and still screw it up.

But, that is not why we lost. We lost due to a lack of game changers (people who take one handed juggling catches 74 yards for a TD on 3rd and 13). A lack of people who can field a punt or kickoff. No pressure from the ends (that was key for us last year). We were outcoached and outplayed. The refs calls were like having dirt rubbed in your eyes after getting both of them blackened.

Glad theres never been any home cookin at the reservation. :

At least someone can admit it.  ;D

Layingemdown. I did not know that about a fair catch. I thought if you dropped it, then picked it up you were fair game.

[westend1]

I didn't think the Gaspard hit was late, either,  But, it might have been with the top of the helmet(spearing).  Maybe that is what got called.

[Razor]

Unless something has changed that I am not aware of, the holding/unsportmanlike combo was handled completey incorrectly, however Nederland's decision to accept/decline was based on how the decision to enforce was going to be handled...IMO PNG lost a down they shouldn't have and some yardage on that play as well...would the outcome of the game have been different...no, but that was mishandled.

I did not see the two late hit references well because they happened on the PNG side and I did not have a good point of reference there...maybe I'll catch that on TV later this week.

The no call on the fair catch was the right "no call"...Nederland's player was clearly blocked into the receiver and I believe this was the reason for the flag being waved off...this is one that I could see clearly as it happened near our sideline.

[baddog]

When PNG and Ned play, there are personal fouls. On the so-called fair catch, there was a flag, then a discussion and the flag was waived off. I thought he was blocked into the guy. It's difficult to see every play.

[jake94]

We ran another play. It should have been 2nd and 20 instead of 3rd and 20. It really should have been 1st and 10 from 15 yards back of the run after Ned declined the holding penalty. If it was a great call, why did he not throw the flag until after the play was over? Watch the replay. He throws the flag after Wright has ran for 30 plus yards. Maybe he had trouble getting the flag out. Let's face it. There were several horrible calls.

1. The fair catch / non fair catch when it was obvious we called a fair catch and the PN-G guy was hit.

2. The PF on Gaspard when the WR was not even down when he dove for him.

3. The actual late hit on Wright when he and the defender rolled out of bounds and Wright was drove back down again.

4. The botched PF / holding call after taking 5 minutes to discuss it and still screw it up.

But, that is not why we lost. We lost due to a lack of game changers (people who take one handed juggling catches 74 yards for a TD on 3rd and 13). A lack of people who can field a punt or kickoff. No pressure from the ends (that was key for us last year). We were outcoached and outplayed. The refs calls were like having dirt rubbed in your eyes after getting both of them blackened.

1. The fair catch was bobbled which makes it open game.  It was bobbled or bothched right there all night, but our coaches insisted on leaving 33 in there to field it.........Our fault.

2. I know the play your talking about and that was a very crappy call.  Gaspard was already in full tackle mode before the Ned guy even hit the ground....real bad call.

3. The tackle on Wright on that play went all the way to the benches.....Unbelievable.

4. The calls were not botched....just the penalization.

If the call on Gaspard was in fact a late hit, then I agree it was a bad call. If the call was spearing then I think it was a good call.

The fair catch bobble does nullify a fair catch from my understanding and the guy was blocked into the receiver on that play.

I don't think Wright's run was 35 yards, but I may be wrong.. I have no clue what happened on the penlization call, but I do know the holding call was a good one. I am not sure about the personal foul. I have no clue how it ended up 3rd down though. 1st or 2nd is what I thought it should be.

I did not see what happened on the sideline with Wright to comment.

[Bigdog]

We ran another play. It should have been 2nd and 20 instead of 3rd and 20. It really should have been 1st and 10 from 15 yards back of the run after Ned declined the holding penalty. If it was a great call, why did he not throw the flag until after the play was over? Watch the replay. He throws the flag after Wright has ran for 30 plus yards. Maybe he had trouble getting the flag out. Let's face it. There were several horrible calls.

1. The fair catch / non fair catch when it was obvious we called a fair catch and the PN-G guy was hit.

2. The PF on Gaspard when the WR was not even down when he dove for him.

3. The actual late hit on Wright when he and the defender rolled out of bounds and Wright was drove back down again.

4. The botched PF / holding call after taking 5 minutes to discuss it and still screw it up.

But, that is not why we lost. We lost due to a lack of game changers (people who take one handed juggling catches 74 yards for a TD on 3rd and 13). A lack of people who can field a punt or kickoff. No pressure from the ends (that was key for us last year). We were outcoached and outplayed. The refs calls were like having dirt rubbed in your eyes after getting both of them blackened.

1. The fair catch was bobbled which makes it open game.  It was bobbled or bothched right there all night, but our coaches insisted on leaving 33 in there to field it.........Our fault.

2. I know the play your talking about and that was a very crappy call.  Gaspard was already in full tackle mode before the Ned guy even hit the ground....real bad call.

3. The tackle on Wright on that play went all the way to the benches.....Unbelievable.

4. The calls were not botched....just the penalization.

The refs screwed up on the holding call.

The late hit was called because he led with his helmet, if he had put his hands out first, there probably would be no call.

[badndn]

"The fair catch bobble does nullify a fair catch from my understanding"

Not true...If a fair catch signal is made the receiver can bounce the ball all over his body until he catches it and the defenders have to give him room. But once it hits the ground it's a live ball.

"and the guy was blocked into the receiver on that play."

It looked like such was the case, but if so why no flag on PNG for illegal block in the back??

I thought for the most part the crew did pretty good with the execption of that one brain fart they had. I doubt all 12,000 people have ever left MCM without at least one fan complaing about the officiating. 

[baddog]

It doesn't have to be a block in the back for the block to carry the defender into the punt returner.