How's Everyone's Deer Hunting Going?

[bullets13]

i SAW a monster 10-point while driving back from East Texas just past San Augustine this past weekend.  It's a shame that those pesky game wardens frown on shooting deer with handguns from moving cars...

[tvc184]

Six point?

A cull maybe?

No he was a good buck.

I should still get 4 more deer before the end of season. 

If he was a six point, that was either a baby or a cull. Take your pick.

[BearBryant]

He definitely wasn't a cull.  A good young buck.  I shot him because I'm on a family lease and a few guys around me have a couple of kids and wives that hunt and on our lease (this is crazy) each family member can tag out on bucks and each family can take 2 does.  So for  a member that has two kids and a wife that hunts that member can take 8 bucks and 2 does off the lease.  Now the vast majority of people don't do this but man it pisses me off to see these two or three families abusing this rule. On our lease its 1 buck with at least 4 on one side and 1 buck state rule.  This buck qualified as my state law buck.  He'll be the only buck I take off this lease.  My kids took 2 does.  These are the only deer that we'll take off of our lease.

Our other deer will be taken down in South Texas. 

I'm still undecided on the new state regulations.  On one hand I welcome it because that buck that I shot would have been legal next year and would have been a good buck.  However, he would have had to walk past numerous stands to get to me.  I do think that for a couple of years after the regulations take place it might be a little tough but after that we should start seeing better deer. 

On the other hand I do think that the rule might be counterproductive because there is nothing in place to account for the cull bucks, the basket rack 8 points.  I killed a cull 10 point one year with a 8 inch spread.  Under next years law he couldn't be killed.  My son killed a 6 point one time with  a 3 inch spread.  All gnarled up. He couldn't be killed next year.  Both of those bucks would be allowed to keep breeding.

I'm not  a shoot anything type of guy but when that 6 point was the first buck I've seen all year long except for  a spike early and one nubbin buck then the 6 pointer had to go down.  I wish my club would change its rules.   

[Bucof2010]

He definitely wasn't a cull.  A good young buck.  I shot him because I'm on a family lease and a few guys around me have a couple of kids and wives that hunt and on our lease (this is crazy) each family member can tag out on bucks and each family can take 2 does.  So for  a member that has two kids and a wife that hunts that member can take 8 bucks and 2 does off the lease.  Now the vast majority of people don't do this but man it pisses me off to see these two or three families abusing this rule. On our lease its 1 buck with at least 4 on one side and 1 buck state rule.  This buck qualified as my state law buck.  He'll be the only buck I take off this lease.  My kids took 2 does.  These are the only deer that we'll take off of our lease.

Our other deer will be taken down in South Texas. 

I'm still undecided on the new state regulations.  On one hand I welcome it because that buck that I shot wouldn't have been legal next year but he probably would have been a good buck.  However, he would have had to walk past numerous stands to get to me.  I do think that for a couple of years after the regulations take place it might be a little tough but after that we should start seeing better deer. 

On the other hand I do think that the rule might be counterproductive because there is nothing in place to account for the cull bucks, the basket rack 8 points.  I killed a cull 10 point one year with a 8 inch spread.  Under next years law he couldn't be killed.  My son killed a 6 point one time with  a 3 inch spread.  All gnarled up. He couldn't be killed next year.  Both of those bucks would be allowed to keep breeding.

I'm not  a shoot anything type of guy but when that 6 point was the first buck I've seen all year long except for  a spike early and one nubbin buck then the 6 pointer had to go down.  I wish my club would change its rules.   

So he wasnt a good buck.

[txstar]

In deep So. Tx I saw maybe three bucks with their head down and lip turned up...but it may be on this weekend.  With the north wind blowing it was really good and I saw dozens of deer, but still mostly 3.5 and 4.5 year olds...passed on a mid 150 and am kicking myself, but will not hesitate if I see him this weekend...I think it is about to really take off

[BearBryant]

He definitely wasn't a cull.  A good young buck.  I shot him because I'm on a family lease and a few guys around me have a couple of kids and wives that hunt and on our lease (this is crazy) each family member can tag out on bucks and each family can take 2 does.  So for  a member that has two kids and a wife that hunts that member can take 8 bucks and 2 does off the lease.  Now the vast majority of people don't do this but man it pisses me off to see these two or three families abusing this rule. On our lease its 1 buck with at least 4 on one side and 1 buck state rule.  This buck qualified as my state law buck.  He'll be the only buck I take off this lease.  My kids took 2 does.  These are the only deer that we'll take off of our lease.

Our other deer will be taken down in South Texas. 

I'm still undecided on the new state regulations.  On one hand I welcome it because that buck that I shot wouldn't have been legal next year but he probably would have been a good buck.  However, he would have had to walk past numerous stands to get to me.  I do think that for a couple of years after the regulations take place it might be a little tough but after that we should start seeing better deer. 

On the other hand I do think that the rule might be counterproductive because there is nothing in place to account for the cull bucks, the basket rack 8 points.  I killed a cull 10 point one year with a 8 inch spread.  Under next years law he couldn't be killed.  My son killed a 6 point one time with  a 3 inch spread.  All gnarled up. He couldn't be killed next year.  Both of those bucks would be allowed to keep breeding.

I'm not  a shoot anything type of guy but when that 6 point was the first buck I've seen all year long except for  a spike early and one nubbin buck then the 6 pointer had to go down.  I wish my club would change its rules.   

So he wasnt a good buck.

I dont know why it came out that way.  he would have been legal.  He was 12 inches inside. 

[txstar]

Bear Bryant, I agree with you...this business of putting a minimum spread requirement on deer is totally counterproductive.  First, if you must take a deer over 13", then it prohibits you from taking extremely narrow mature deer and they will breed and you'll get more and more narrow deer.  I could go on and on about this.  Bottomline, East Texas hunters will have to be management conscious if they want to consistently harvest mature deer.  I read an article the other day and I believe they estimate that 90% of deer killed in East Texas are 2.5 years old.  Putting a minimum rule on deer is an absolute joke and was probably pushed through by someone who has no clue about deer and deer hunting.  In South Texas we harvest deer that are 5.5 years old minimum and preferrably 6.5, but we manage by taking 4.5 year old deer that will not contribute to the herd.  Who will enforce this bogus rule.  I think it will be looked upon in years to come and seen as a huge disaster.

[Bucof2010]

Bear Bryant, I agree with you...this business of putting a minimum spread requirement on deer is totally counterproductive.  First, if you must take a deer over 13", then it prohibits you from taking extremely narrow mature deer and they will breed and you'll get more and more narrow deer.  I could go on and on about this.  Bottomline, East Texas hunters will have to be management conscious if they want to consistently harvest mature deer.  I read an article the other day and I believe they estimate that 90% of deer killed in East Texas are 2.5 years old.  Putting a minimum rule on deer is an absolute joke and was probably pushed through by someone who has no clue about deer and deer hunting.  In South Texas we harvest deer that are 5.5 years old minimum and preferrably 6.5, but we manage by taking 4.5 year old deer that will not contribute to the herd.  Who will enforce this bogus rule.  I think it will be looked upon in years to come and seen as a huge disaster.

Explain what has happened around the lakes area then.

[txstar]

All I'm saying is that if East Texas hunters continue to kill 2.5 year old deer that they will never see the potential.  The minimum rack rule is a joke.  Hunters must be able to age deer on the hoof, period and let young deer walk and grow.  You cannot argue with that!  I let a 150"+ deer walk last weekend because I think he is only 4.5 and he will only get bigger for next year.  Sure it was hard to do and I am kicking myself, but it was the right decision.

[BearBryant]

All I'm saying is that if East Texas hunters continue to kill 2.5 year old deer that they will never see the potential.  The minimum rack rule is a joke.  Hunters must be able to age deer on the hoof, period and let young deer walk and grow.  You cannot argue with that!  I let a 150"+ deer walk last weekend because I think he is only 4.5 and he will only get bigger for next year.  Sure it was hard to do and I am kicking myself, but it was the right decision.

But your probably on a good lease set up for trophy deer. 

One thing I know is that scores of people who really don't care about rack size.  There are still many many meat hunters out there.  I know  a guy that will be tagged out by the 2nd weekend.  He's the most ethical hunter I know but he will get his two buck/two doe and then hog hunt the rest of the season.  Don't care one iota whether its  a 4point/spike/six point or what have you. 

If the state is going make these restrictions then they need to have some way to get rid of the cull deer. 

[txstar]

Bearbryant, I still agree with you and yes, I am probably way to into the trophy rack...but I will tell you this, I am into meat hunting because everytime a hurricane hits-that is all I have to eat...Ya'll have a great weekend...I hope to see the big boys running does starting this weekend, and if I see that deer I passed on I think he might now be old enough to harvest...

[BearBryant]

Bearbryant, I still agree with you and yes, I am probably way to into the trophy rack...but I will tell you this, I am into meat hunting because everytime a hurricane hits-that is all I have to eat...Ya'll have a great weekend...I hope to see the big boys running does starting this weekend, and if I see that deer I passed on I think he might now be old enough to harvest...

Good luck to you.  If you get  him please post some pics, there haven't been that many this year. 

[Bucof2010]

Natural selection will eventually take care of the bad genetics. If you have an 8 point with an 18 inch spread and an 8 point with a 6 inch spread the bigger buck will do most of the breeding.

[BearBryant]

Natural selection will eventually take care of the bad genetics. If you have an 8 point with an 18 inch spread and an 8 point with a 6 inch spread the bigger buck will do most of the breeding.

I respectfully disagree on that point. 

[Bucof2010]

Natural selection will eventually take care of the bad genetics. If you have an 8 point with an 18 inch spread and an 8 point with a 6 inch spread the bigger buck will do most of the breeding.

I respectfully disagree on that point. 

Why is that?

[BearBryant]

Natural selection will eventually take care of the bad genetics. If you have an 8 point with an 18 inch spread and an 8 point with a 6 inch spread the bigger buck will do most of the breeding.

I respectfully disagree on that point. 

Why is that?

I agree to a point that yes the bigger more dominant bucks will do MOST of the breeding but I've seen too many leases where for years junk bucks were killed.  A cull buck is still going to breed which is why so many trophy ranches eliminate them.  It won't happen by itself. 

Look guys, I'm not totally against this new rule.  It does have flaws though and I still make no apologies for allowing my children or myself to shoot a good young buck.  Just because one does doesn't make them a "shoot anything that moves" type of hunter or an unethical one.  Its just a difference in preference. 

[BearBryant]

And another thing. 

We hunters are under attack enough from the anti hunting/anti gun crowd that we shouldn't separate ourselves with each other. 

Have any of you ever been to a deer lease meeting.  40 guys and 40 different opinions.  Heck my grandpa still thinks that you shouldn't shoot does!  Can't tell him anything otherwise.  So I just let it be.  I dern sure won't question his knowledge of hunting or ethics though! 

I personally cant stand guys that dump their stupid gut buckets on the side of the road and outside of many leases in Texas, including trophy leases you'll see just that. 

[tvc184]

So he wasnt a good buck.

Thank you very much.

A "potential" good deer is not a good buck. Therein lies the problem of small deer in east Texas. The other guy is going to kill him so I had better shoot first.

I hope the state regulations kick in in all east Texas counties and it is then heavily enforced. While it is true that some true cull bucks will never be killed, in the long run it will do way more good than harm.

[tvc184]

In deep So. Tx I saw maybe three bucks with their head down and lip turned up...but it may be on this weekend.  With the north wind blowing it was really good and I saw dozens of deer, but still mostly 3.5 and 4.5 year olds...passed on a mid 150 and am kicking myself, but will not hesitate if I see him this weekend...I think it is about to really take off

Someone on texasbowhunter.com said that it was really in full swing around Eagle Pass. Maybe it's that time.

[tvc184]

The reason that cull bucks and junk bucks breed in east Texas is because there are no dominant bucks and add in the fact that it is overrun with does.

When deer don't live past 18 months the dominant buck and natural selection process is ruined by hunters, not nature.

The new rules are working in the counties where they have been used. I don't think that is the best way to select a buck but I have seen some pure idiots trying to judge deer on the hoof. There was a guy in south Texas a few weeks ago that killed a 1.5 year old baby on a day lease while I was there and wanted to argue that it was a mature buck. Geez.

Looking at horns compared to the size of the ears is easy. Being subjective about how long their brisket has extended, how much gut they have, if their back is swayed, if their face looks short and all the stuff that goes into aging deer is not or at least it appears so from the hunters that I have seen.

It is simple. If the horns are outside of the ears, he is likely 3.5 years old or older and a mature deer.

Unless you are on your own property and pay no fees to hunt other than a license, the meat hunt doesn't work for an excuse either for a huge majority of the people. You can buy beef, pork or chicken in a store way cheaper than you can get the same meat hunting.

[BearBryant]

The reason that cull bucks and junk bucks breed in east Texas is because there are no dominant bucks and add in the fact that it is overrun with does.

When deer don't live past 18 months the dominant buck and natural selection process is ruined by hunters, not nature.

The new rules are working in the counties where they have been used. I don't think that is the best way to select a buck but I have seen some pure idiots trying to judge deer on the hoof. There was a guy in south Texas a few weeks ago that killed a 1.5 year old baby on a day lease while I was there and wanted to argue that it was a mature buck. Geez.

Looking at horns compared to the size of the ears is easy. Being subjective about how long their brisket has extended, how much gut they have, if their back is swayed, if their face looks short and all the stuff that goes into aging deer is not or at least it appears so from the hunters that I have seen.

It is simple. If the horns are outside of the ears, he is likely 3.5 years old or older and a mature deer.

Unless you are on your own property and pay no fees to hunt other than a license, the meat hunt doesn't work for an excuse either for a huge majority of the people. You can buy beef, pork or chicken in a store way cheaper than you can get the same meat hunting.

  Good post  but realize this....  Being a "meat" hunter is not an "excuse", its  a preference.  Everybody knows that it would be cheaper to go buy prime rib rather than deer meat.  But give the legal ethical hunter the right to hunt legally.  The trophy hunt is going to simply drive up prices everywhere. 

I had a judge tell me that the new law wasn't going to pass in court.  That someone who drops a deer at 120 yards is going to easily be able to fight this.  I'm no legal expert so I can't say. 

And I've seen many dominant bucks killed this year.  And not talking about the good eight point .  I've seen 3 monsters.  Its been a  great year in East Texas for awesome bucks! 

But like I've said.  I'm going to give the new law time to work. I can see good things from it.  Just don't like it when legal ethical hunters are disparaged because they don't care about trophies. 

[tvc184]

I've got no problem with people hunting within the law. I have taken young deer also.

It took a while to realize that I could kill a large older deer just as easily as I could kill a baby if we only let them grow on our lease. When we started our newer management rules, we didn't kill a buck for one year and only one the next. Now we are seeing and killing the biggest that we have ever seen in our area.

That is why I am all in favor of the new proposed rules on horn size. As everyone knows, that is not the perfect answer. I wish they would say the horn size OR 3.5 years or older as some older deer need to be culled but will never fit within the horn restrictions. There will also be some nice deer with good horns that grow up instead of out and may never make the required width. If they went to a 3.5 year minimum age, it would be up to the hunter to decide if the deer was of age but he has to make that same call on horns also. I have an easier time noticing a mature deer by body size than trying to judge if the horns I am looking at are 12" or 13.5".

The way we do it and the way it is taught in management circles..... if in doubt, don't shoot. That is the intent of the rules anyway. It is not to get a micrometer and see if the buck has reached the minimum inside spread or if he is three one hundreths of an inch short. Management of deer set minimum rules hoping that hunters will not take the risk of an illegal deer and allow the borderline bucks to walk. Then you take the same deer the next year when you see him and he is 15-16" and no doubt. This year you kill the borderline one from last year.

East Texas can grow as big of deer as south Texas if people let them grow up. The leases down there are heavily managed with very high prices. People don't pay $2,500-$10,000 a gun (not a family) to kill a 110 pound 4 pointer. I would hate to see prices like that in east Texas but the management style would work if put in place. It seems that many east Texas hunters feel that if they see a deer, it must claimed at that moment and killed at all cost. By gosh, I so him so he is mine.

I will never believe the meat issue. I only drive from south Beaumont to just past Woodville to hunt. My cost in gasoline, deer stands, feeders, corn, hunting license, lease fees and other items makes it impossible to kill deer for meat and claim that it is to feed a family. There are those people that kill deer on their own property where they live and that is different but anyone that pays for a lease to hunt and drives for any time at all is losing money for every pound of venison that they claim to be taking "for meat". I will bet that less than 2% of the "legal" hunters that take deer "for meat" are doing so on their own property and not paying lease fees.

[BearBryant]

Like I said earlier.  Everybody knows that you could buy prime rib or even shrimp cheaper than deer meat.  What I'm trying to get across is that some dont give a flip about horns.  Ever heard the phrase "you can't eat the horns". 

I'm not that guy but there are many many people out there. 

[westend1]

The reason that cull bucks and junk bucks breed in east Texas is because there are no dominant bucks and add in the fact that it is overrun with does.

When deer don't live past 18 months the dominant buck and natural selection process is ruined by hunters, not nature.

The new rules are working in the counties where they have been used. I don't think that is the best way to select a buck but I have seen some pure idiots trying to judge deer on the hoof. There was a guy in south Texas a few weeks ago that killed a 1.5 year old baby on a day lease while I was there and wanted to argue that it was a mature buck. Geez.

Looking at horns compared to the size of the ears is easy. Being subjective about how long their brisket has extended, how much gut they have, if their back is swayed, if their face looks short and all the stuff that goes into aging deer is not or at least it appears so from the hunters that I have seen.

It is simple. If the horns are outside of the ears, he is likely 3.5 years old or older and a mature deer.

Unless you are on your own property and pay no fees to hunt other than a license, the meat hunt doesn't work for an excuse either for a huge majority of the people. You can buy beef, pork or chicken in a store way cheaper than you can get the same meat hunting.

  Good post  but realize this....  Being a "meat" hunter is not an "excuse", its  a preference.  Everybody knows that it would be cheaper to go buy prime rib rather than deer meat.  But give the legal ethical hunter the right to hunt legally.  The trophy hunt is going to simply drive up prices everywhere. 

I had a judge tell me that the new law wasn't going to pass in court.  That someone who drops a deer at 120 yards is going to easily be able to fight this.  I'm no legal expert so I can't say. 

And I've seen many dominant bucks killed this year.  And not talking about the good eight point .  I've seen 3 monsters.  Its been a  great year in East Texas for awesome bucks! 

But like I've said.  I'm going to give the new law time to work. I can see good things from it.  Just don't like it when legal ethical hunters are disparaged because they don't care about trophies. 

I don't think mistake will work as an excuse.  Think about duck hunters.  They are required to identify species of a fast moving object, often in low light.  If they make a mistake, they pay the fine(if caught)  No doubt in my mind that this rule would be enforceable.  Don't shoot unless you are sure.

[tvc184]

I don't think mistake will work as an excuse.  Think about duck hunters.  They are required to identify species of a fast moving object, often in low light.  If they make a mistake, they pay the fine(if caught)  No doubt in my mind that this rule would be enforceable.  Don't shoot unless you are sure.

Yeah. That sounds more like a judge with "wishful thinking". He doesn't like the law so he doesn't think it will pass. Well the law has been in place in some Texas counties for several years and I haven't seen any appeals court challenges on the law. I will stick with, when in doubt, don't shoot.