Man I'm really itching....

[BearBryant]

I'm not on a trophy lease.  I share 1200 acres in the hill country which is low fenced and has hunters on all sides.  We, as a group, have decided to shoot nothing less than 4 1/2 years and have tried to learn how to age deer on the hoof.  In 6 years, we have started seeing more and better bucks.  It's not a trophy lease, but we are doing our best to make it one and our efforts have paid off, to some degree.

The minimum spread is not the ideal answer, but it's better than what we have now in east Texas.  Maybe once the herds get a little age on them, then we can start working on culling inferior deer.

ps--If your kids shoot 4 point bucks and you think spikes are culls, exactly what do they pass on, 3 pointers?

I pass on whatever I feel like.    Where did I say that spikes were culls? 

Since when has hunting evolved into everything has to be a trophy.  Why not hunt for the sake of hunting.  I don't teach my kids that it has to be a big one in order for them to feel good.  We aren't rich and I can't drive to the hill country every weekend.  We usually take no more than 3 deer off our lease and 2 of them are does. 

[tvc184]

The minimum spread is not the ideal answer, but it's better than what we have now in east Texas.  Maybe once the herds get a little age on them, then we can start working on culling inferior deer.

ps--If your kids shoot 4 point bucks and you think spikes are culls, exactly what do they pass on, 3 pointers?

On my lease a few years ago we had some silly 6 point rule. If it had 6 points, it was a "legal" buck per our lease rules. Well there is a saying. Where you start is where you will end. If shooting a 6 point is within the rules of your lease, expect that to be what is killed and you will be darn lucky to see anything else, more like a fluke.

That is exactly what most hunters killed or ever saw. Once we started going for 3.5 year old minimum, we have taken several good bucks including one about 140 inches a month ago. We have several game cam pics of different large bucks that have not been killed. We are seeing more mature bucks while on stands and also on the cameras in a weekend than we saw in an entire season a few short years back. We don't have a huge lease either. It is about 970 acres in Tyler County not far from Woodville. This area is not exactly known as a trophy area yet we are getting large mature deer with good racks. Why? There is no magic or rocket science. We aren't shooting 4 or 6 pointers anymore. We are also on a family lease and if we want meat, we can kill does to our heart's content or stop off at Wal-Mart on the way home.

[BearBryant]

The minimum spread is not the ideal answer, but it's better than what we have now in east Texas.  Maybe once the herds get a little age on them, then we can start working on culling inferior deer.

ps--If your kids shoot 4 point bucks and you think spikes are culls, exactly what do they pass on, 3 pointers?

On my lease a few years ago we had some silly 6 point rule. If it had 6 points, it was a "legal" buck per our lease rules. Well there is a saying. Where you start is where you will end. If shooting a 6 point is within the rules of your lease, expect that to be what is killed and you will be darn lucky to see anything else, more like a fluke.

That is exactly what most hunters killed or ever saw. Once we started going for 3.5 year old minimum, we have taken several good bucks including one about 140 inches a month ago. We have several game cam pics of different large bucks that have not been killed. We are seeing more mature bucks while on stands and also on the cameras in a weekend than we saw in an entire season a few short years back. We don't have a huge lease either. It is about 970 acres in Tyler County not far from Woodville. This area is not exactly known as a trophy area yet we are getting large mature deer with good racks. Why? There is no magic or rocket science. We aren't shooting 4 or 6 pointers anymore. We are also on a family lease and if we want meat, we can kill does to our heart's content or stop off at Wal-Mart on the way home.

I know all of you will probably find this out of date (as do I) but there are still leases today that do not allow the killing of does, or they limit it to one per family.  I can think of 2 leases around my home that don't allow any does to be killed.  I don't agree with it. 

The walmart comment though.  Comeon.  LOL

Hey check your pm.  I got something for ya if your interested. 

[westend1]

Believe it or not, there are circumstances where doe should not be killed.  some areas have such low deer density due to overharvest, that they need some time to repopulate. 

[tvc184]

Believe it or not, there are circumstances where doe should not be killed.  some areas have such low deer density due to overharvest, that they need some time to repopulate. 

By all means. Tyler County has a two doe limit with no tags needed. The herd needs to be thinned for better health and a better buck to doe ratio. Other areas need some does and I suspect most of the problem is with poachers in those areas of east Texas famous for such activity. It does not take long to increase the herd size however in either bucks or does if the people lay off of them for a couple of years.

[BearBryant]

Is Tyler county a 2 buck county? 

[tvc184]

Is Tyler county a 2 buck county? 

Two bucks, two does with no permits needed in October bow season and gun season until December. Then doe opens again for 9 days during black powder season.

[BearBryant]

Is Tyler county a 2 buck county? 

Two bucks, two does with no permits needed in October bow season and gun season until December. Then doe opens again for 9 days during black powder season.

I'd rather be on a permit system (LAMPS?) for the does.  I can't stand having to hurry up and shoot my does. 

[tvc184]

It could be LAMPS or MLD. Of the two, I would prefer MLD.

[BearBryant]

I don't really know the MLD program.  How does it differ from Lamps?

[tvc184]

I don't really know the MLD program.  How does it differ from Lamps?

MLD is a little more flexible than LAMPS. From what our biologist told us is that if you are running it correctly, the state can authorize (and does) gun season to coincide with archery season. It also allows for enhanced bag limits. For example if the land is permitted to harvest 30 bucks, then 30 bucks can be taken off of the land with no regard to how many hunters you have or who kills them. That would really go well with leases with few members per acre. I hunt on less than 1,000 acres so if a state biologist decides that we can kill or need to kill 15 bucks, then they can be taken by anyone. The season can be extended from September 30th through the last Sunday in January without regard to archery, black powder or who kills the deer.

It all depends on how you run your lease. If you don't follow the program then you will be denied MLD.

Here is an overview of it.

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When our biologist talked about going to MLD (which we haven't), he said the state would start the lease out and give them goals. As they are reached and the program is followed, then the allow more levels. There are three levels to MLD.

Basically you can manage your lease by the conditions on your lease and not be stuck within the state guidelines for general hunting. When you make general rules, you have to do it for the masses. When you can taylor a program for a certain piece of property, the state will be more lax in what they will allow to be killed since they want certain amounts of game taken off of the land but not without overkill.

As you know on your lease as well as mine, with families hunting they can slaughter the deer herd in short order on that particular lease. The MLD tries to assure that you take enough game to keep a healthy herd with endangering it. The state may very well come in and say that your lease needs to take four does per membership and then gives the appropriate tags out. If one hunter doesn't hunt with his family, he can still take four does. On the other hand, if you have a family of 5 and they want to shoot 10 bucks, that will not be permitted since that would be permitted if you split the tags up per membership.

I like the idea but I have doubts that the people on my current lease will go by it since it would restrict how many deer a family could kill. Of course, it would be up to the membership to decide how to distribute the doe and buck tags.

If you read this web page from a south Texas ranch where it describes their "The Classic Whitetail Expience", it mentions that according to the MLD Level 3 plan, if you make a hunt on their lease you can kill all of the management (cull) bucks below 125" that you see. No big deal but it shows that on their ranch which is heavily managed, your basic hunting license doesn't even apply since you can take all of the culls below 125" in view.

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[643]

The property we watch and try to manage went to permits last yr after a visit by the local TPW bio. The old owners are from Miss and are well versed in quality whitetail management, saw the problem the 2 yrs prior and asked us to set up a meeting with the Bio., after a ride around the property he saw our problem, in a month or so we got the permits so as to be able to watch and select the 'rite' does to take off the range. We see lots of Does with no fawns and this is due to not enough bucks to go around which I guess is typical for E Texas. The problem we have now is the new owners Bro and son are self proclaimed deer hunters that WILL shoot at and sometimes hit 1 1/2y/o forked horn buck OVER the other 15 or so Does in the food plot>>>what gets me is they will ask "why can't we see any big bucks". A week or so back I sat in a stand to take a Doe or 2, I saw 3, 1 1/2y/o bucks: 1 spike, 4pt, 5pt, and a 2 1/2 y/o 8 pt, I made the mistake of telling the owners bro of the young bucks I had seen and how in a cpl of yrs they would be some respectable bucks considering 2 of the deer were forked horned @ 1 1/2 y/o. His 18y/o son now sits in this stand when he hunts to try and take ANY of the 4 bucks and hoping the 8 would show. When he's not hunting I will sit in it and if any of them come out I WILL shoot between their legs and hopefully educate the deer as I've tried to educate the hunters BUT they already know it all. I can't wait on the horn restrictions!!!!!   

[Bucof2010]

The property we watch and try to manage went to permits last yr after a visit by the local TPW bio. The old owners are from Miss and are well versed in quality whitetail management, saw the problem the 2 yrs prior and asked us to set up a meeting with the Bio., after a ride around the property he saw our problem, in a month or so we got the permits so as to be able to watch and select the 'rite' does to take off the range. We see lots of Does with no fawns and this is due to not enough bucks to go around which I guess is typical for E Texas. The problem we have now is the new owners Bro and son are self proclaimed deer hunters that WILL shoot at and sometimes hit 1 1/2y/o forked horn buck OVER the other 15 or so Does in the food plot>>>what gets me is they will ask "why can't we see any big bucks". A week or so back I sat in a stand to take a Doe or 2, I saw 3, 1 1/2y/o bucks: 1 spike, 4pt, 5pt, and a 2 1/2 y/o 8 pt, I made the mistake of telling the owners bro of the young bucks I had seen and how in a cpl of yrs they would be some respectable bucks considering 2 of the deer were forked horned @ 1 1/2 y/o. His 18y/o son now sits in this stand when he hunts to try and take ANY of the 4 bucks and hoping the 8 would show. When he's not hunting I will sit in it and if any of them come out I WILL shoot between their legs and hopefully educate the deer as I've tried to educate the hunters BUT they already know it all. I can't wait on the horn restrictions!!!!!   

Beautiful post

[BearBryant]

The property we watch and try to manage went to permits last yr after a visit by the local TPW bio. The old owners are from Miss and are well versed in quality whitetail management, saw the problem the 2 yrs prior and asked us to set up a meeting with the Bio., after a ride around the property he saw our problem, in a month or so we got the permits so as to be able to watch and select the 'rite' does to take off the range. We see lots of Does with no fawns and this is due to not enough bucks to go around which I guess is typical for E Texas. The problem we have now is the new owners Bro and son are self proclaimed deer hunters that WILL shoot at and sometimes hit 1 1/2y/o forked horn buck OVER the other 15 or so Does in the food plot>>>what gets me is they will ask "why can't we see any big bucks". A week or so back I sat in a stand to take a Doe or 2, I saw 3, 1 1/2y/o bucks: 1 spike, 4pt, 5pt, and a 2 1/2 y/o 8 pt, I made the mistake of telling the owners bro of the young bucks I had seen and how in a cpl of yrs they would be some respectable bucks considering 2 of the deer were forked horned @ 1 1/2 y/o. His 18y/o son now sits in this stand when he hunts to try and take ANY of the 4 bucks and hoping the 8 would show. When he's not hunting I will sit in it and if any of them come out I WILL shoot between their legs and hopefully educate the deer as I've tried to educate the hunters BUT they already know it all. I can't wait on the horn restrictions!!!!!   

Beautiful post

I'm moved as well.  LOL

[speveto]

:

[bignazty]

[quote name="Bucof2010" post="489042" timestamp="1229573466"]
[quote author=643 link=topic=46730.msg489001#msg489001 date=1229566733]
The property we watch and try to manage went to permits last yr after a visit by the local TPW bio. The old owners are from Miss and are well versed in quality whitetail management, saw the problem the 2 yrs prior and asked us to set up a meeting with the Bio., after a ride around the property he saw our problem, in a month or so we got the permits so as to be able to watch and select the 'rite' does to take off the range. We see lots of Does with no fawns and this is due to not enough bucks to go around which I guess is typical for E Texas. The problem we have now is the new owners Bro and son are self proclaimed deer hunters that WILL shoot at and sometimes hit 1 1/2y/o forked horn buck OVER the other 15 or so Does in the food plot>>>what gets me is they will ask "why can't we see any big bucks". A week or so back I sat in a stand to take a Doe or 2, I saw 3, 1 1/2y/o bucks: 1 spike, 4pt, 5pt, and a 2 1/2 y/o 8 pt, I made the mistake of telling the owners bro of the young bucks I had seen and how in a cpl of yrs they would be some respectable bucks considering 2 of the deer were forked horned @ 1 1/2 y/o. His 18y/o son now sits in this stand when he hunts to try and take ANY of the 4 bucks and hoping the 8 would show. When he's not hunting I will sit in it and if any of them come out I WILL shoot between their legs and hopefully educate the deer as I've tried to educate the hunters BUT they already know it all. I can't wait on the horn restrictions!!!!!   
[/quote]

Beautiful post
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