STJFL Weight Limits

[teamraider]

I want to bring this up early so that nobody thinks I'm trying to bend any weight rules for next season. It seems to me the division and LO weight limits should progress evenly through the divisions.

Current weight limits:

Division           AGE         LO            CAP

===============================

PeeWee           7-8         90             125

Junior              9-10       100            125

Senior             11-13      135            155

There is less than a 10 lb difference from PW to JR and 35 lbs from JR to SR. These limits made a lot of sense before PeeWee when the JR ages were 8 - 10 and you could have a 65 pound 8 year old going against a 125 pound 11year old. We now have a 2 year gap in each division so weights could be better balanced.

For Example:

A player that is 90 lbs can be a RB in PeeWee then is LO in Jr because he is 101 lbs only to be able to run again at 135 lbs as a senior.

Just my opinion but I think it should be modified to something like this:

Division           AGE         LO            CAP

===============================

PeeWee           7-8         90             125

Junior              9-10       115            140

Senior             11-13      135            155

Thoughts?

[td]

I for one would love that rule to be changed. I think your suggested weights look fair to me.

[player66]

I was in the league when the change was made. The reason for the differnce is pee-wee was going to be unlimited, but some parents freaked out when they heard unlmited for 7 & 8 year olds  So they are capped the same as Jr's.

The jr's are about the right. It does not take talent when you are real young to run over 90% percent of the league. You have to remember, the max wieght for a 10 year old used to be 85lbs. Now it is 100 lbs, LO 125 lbs.

Sr's are just right.

It does not really matter to me, my son has moved on, but remember change must be done in slow increments. If you change too quick and overshoot, then there would be a bitter taste in everyones mouth.

Can you imagine trying to to tackle a couple of runningbacks bigger than the Kountze RB.

[Strait Shooter]

I think the weight limits should be changed. After reading a commint from another form stating that Lumbertons peewee O line is only 7 years old, those kids are going to be bigger and stronger next year. I don't think that a kid with talent should be held to line only because of his weight. The kids can't help it so why hold them back?

[player66]

Then move up to Jr division. No kids is limited to play up. If he is a stud or daddy thinks he is a stud move up.

Bigger kids running the ball will make the league one dimensional. A couple of little Grogans and Beards out there and no one can tackle them.

[LB-9]

These are interesting points about the weight limits! I have been an observer of the league for a while and have friends involved in coaching. I have been to several STJFL games throughout the years, and was at the Superbowl weekend this year, which included 3 Great Games. After reading the first post about the weight limits, I feel as the though the current weight limits are correct with the exception of raising the max weight in junior to 135lbs.  The LO weight limits in the other 3 weight classes look fair to me. This brings up another interesting point.  Why is there not a league policy in place to monitor players weights throughout the season? I have noticed in several games where I questioned whether or not a runningback was under the allowable weight limit for their respective division. It would seem to me that this poses a major safety issue for the rest of the players on the field, not to mention opens the league up for a major liability law suit. I have been involved in the insurance industry for 20 years and have seen such law suits on several occasions. I would propose a system by which any coach from an opposing team could weigh  an opposing "questionable player" before game time to make sure that the player still meets the league's weight limit for that division. This would in turn enable the league to monitor the safety of the players more closely.  Also, this would keep coaches from having prospective players to diet for 3 months before the season just to make "one" weigh in so they can handle the football. I feel as though players should play at their natural weight rather dieting down before weigh in only to put back on 10 or 15 pounds after the weigh in. Players that have to diet to make weigh in, and want to handle the football, should step up to the next weight division so that thier skills can be challenged by players of equivalent size and talent. This only makes the players better!

[Txdragon]

I can understand what your saying in theory, but who would certify the scales before each game? Would there

be an official scale?

These are interesting points about the weight limits! I have been an observer of the league for a while and have friends involved in coaching. I have been to several STJFL games throughout the years, and was at the Superbowl weekend this year, which included 3 Great Games. After reading the first post about the weight limits, I feel as the though the current weight limits are correct with the exception of raising the max weight in junior to 135lbs.  The LO weight limits in the other 3 weight classes look fair to me. This brings up another interesting point.  Why is there not a league policy in place to monitor players weights throughout the season? I have noticed in several games where I questioned whether or not a runningback was under the allowable weight limit for their respective division. It would seem to me that this poses a major safety issue for the rest of the players on the field, not to mention opens the league up for a major liability law suit. I have been involved in the insurance industry for 20 years and have seen such law suits on several occasions. I would propose a system by which any coach from an opposing team could weigh  an opposing "questionable player" before game time to make sure that the player still meets the league's weight limit for that division. This would in turn enable the league to monitor the safety of the players more closely.  Also, this would keep coaches from having prospective players to diet for 3 months before the season just to make "one" weigh in so they can handle the football. I feel as though players should play at their natural weight rather dieting down before weigh in only to put back on 10 or 15 pounds after the weigh in. Players that have to diet to make weigh in, and want to handle the football, should step up to the next weight division so that thier skills can be challenged by players of equivalent size and talent. This only makes the players better!

[queenb77630]

Let me ask everyone something: has anyone considered the fact that there are some kids out there who are young in age but older in height?  My 9 year old is a tad bit shorter then I am (he's 5' 3").  He towered over a lot of the kids he played against.  Not only that, during the season he lost WEIGHT but gained MUSCLE so how would that be taken into account? 

His weight is right where it should be for his height.  If you ask me, that should be taken into account also come certification.

[Strait Shooter]

I agree with you player66 but would it be fare to let a 5' 120lb 8 year old play with 11 & 12 year old kids?

[BigD 95]

I hope ya'll realize what ya'll are asking for.  Recertification before every game?  I have seen that in Pop Warner, and it sucks.  In order for this to happen, we would definitely have to revisit our LO rules, and limitations.  It is too hard on a team to gameplan all week long, just to get to the game and your starting LB or RB is 1 lb over the LO limit, and now has to play on the line, in which he has never practiced.  That starts the fussing over the scales calibrations, and then the fussing over cheating.  I do agree that we should bump up the weights in Junior to 110 for LO and 135 for the cap, but to check weight every week would not be good.  To me it is fair that a kid weighed in under the maximun allowed weight at certification, and is now a few pounds over.  So what, I don't hear anyone complaining that a child was 10 at certification and is now 11.  To me it is the same.  Also, the STJFL board would have to get larger, because that would require a STJFL official at every field for weight in before each game.  God forbid, that official be from the team playing.  Then you get more crying and cheating accusations.  Please let this rest, before someone takes off with it.

[player66]

These are interesting points about the weight limits! I have been an observer of the league for a while and have friends involved in coaching. I have been to several STJFL games throughout the years, and was at the Superbowl weekend this year, which included 3 Great Games. After reading the first post about the weight limits, I feel as the though the current weight limits are correct with the exception of raising the max weight in junior to 135lbs.  The LO weight limits in the other 3 weight classes look fair to me. This brings up another interesting point.  Why is there not a league policy in place to monitor players weights throughout the season? I have noticed in several games where I questioned whether or not a runningback was under the allowable weight limit for their respective division. It would seem to me that this poses a major safety issue for the rest of the players on the field, not to mention opens the league up for a major liability law suit. I have been involved in the insurance industry for 20 years and have seen such law suits on several occasions. I would propose a system by which any coach from an opposing team could weigh  an opposing "questionable player" before game time to make sure that the player still meets the league's weight limit for that division. This would in turn enable the league to monitor the safety of the players more closely.  Also, this would keep coaches from having prospective players to diet for 3 months before the season just to make "one" weigh in so they can handle the football. I feel as though players should play at their natural weight rather dieting down before weigh in only to put back on 10 or 15 pounds after the weigh in. Players that have to diet to make weigh in, and want to handle the football, should step up to the next weight division so that thier skills can be challenged by players of equivalent size and talent. This only makes the players better!

As lawyer you should know that you would need to read the by-laws and certification rules. The rules and by-lwas state that the player must weigh XX to certify in the age division. It is all about language, isn't it?

As for as weighing during the year, that would be very difficult. besides the weight limits are set by considering what a player could gain throught the year. Example: LO's cannot weigh more than 155 in the senior, it is understood that a player maybe 165 by the end of the season.

[player66]

I hope ya'll realize what ya'll are asking for.  Recertification before every game?  I have seen that in Pop Warner, and it sucks.  In order for this to happen, we would definitely have to revisit our LO rules, and limitations.  It is too hard on a team to gameplan all week long, just to get to the game and your starting LB or RB is 1 lb over the LO limit, and now has to play on the line, in which he has never practiced.  That starts the fussing over the scales calibrations, and then the fussing over cheating.  I do agree that we should bump up the weights in Junior to 110 for LO and 135 for the cap, but to check weight every week would not be good.  To me it is fair that a kid weighed in under the maximun allowed weight at certification, and is now a few pounds over.  So what, I don't hear anyone complaining that a child was 10 at certification and is now 11.  To me it is the same.  Also, the STJFL board would have to get larger, because that would require a STJFL official at every field for weight in before each game.  God forbid, that official be from the team playing.  Then you get more crying and cheating accusations.  Please let this rest, before someone takes off with it.

You are right, STJFL was formed with this cert. at each game being one of the driving forces that pushed us away from POP Warner due to parents and coaches starving kids all season prohibiting their natural growth and even sweating down players before a game having them dehydrated before even stepping onto the field. The weights are fine at the end of the day you just have to play nothing will ever cover every situation.

Your are cap'n. I suggest all the poster that want change go to the board meetings and listen to the dialogue on all pros and cons. They will see real fast that things are fine where they are. Subtle changes need to be made, it is hard to backwards, it easier to nibble a little at a time.

[LB-9]

I can see your concern, Big D 95,  over the additional work and effort it would take to monitor players weights on a weekly basis. However, is it not worth the additional effort to make sure that the rules are followed and there is safe playing environment for all the players involved? It seems to me the league was created for the kids, not the parents and coaches. As for your issue about gameplannig all week and then having a player not make weight, that is no different than having a player out because of injury or sickness at the last minute. As a coach, you have to adapt and overcome! You are right about having an STJFL board member present at the weigh in, and both coaches should be present to see the players weigh as well. Calibrating the scales is not that difficult and can be done by an independent company where there is no bias. Also, the scales cailibration can be checked by the attending board member and propspective coaches before the weigh in. If the scales calibration is in question, i.e. 1 lb. over, then it is the same for every player that steps on the scale! This is more and to the point to make sure there is no foul play....! You are only making the playing field more even for all that is involved. Why even have a weight limitation if it is not going to be enforced throughout the season?  Besides, usually the people that are "crying" are the ones that are already cheating and can't bend the new rules to work in their favor. Am I not right?

[BigD 95]

LB-9 I do understand the pros of this issue, and I was only stating a few of the cons that I have seen firsthand.  Not sure what you meant by the people "crying", because I definitely was not doing that, and I most definitely am not a cheater.  When I began coaching STJFL, the rules were different from any I had ever seen, and I still followed them.  If the rules were to change, I will still follow them.  I personally don't see anything wrong with the weight certification that we already have in place, as long as everybody follows it.  I for one, know for a fact that we faced running backs this year that were over the LO weight requirement, heck they were bigger than everyone on my team, including my LO's.  I didn't cry about it, because technically no rule was broken.  My son is only 65 pounds (10 years old), so this is not a personal issue for me at all.  I just think that if they are the same age then who cares about weight, because 2 years from now in Junior High they will either have to play with them or quit.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know the safety concerns, I'm just saying let's not water the league down more than it already is with more technicalities.  Can we just play good old American football?

[LilBobcatMom]

So, say an 8 yo practices/plays on Pee Wee for the first two months and then ends up being pushed up into Junior because of weight.  How does he catch up/adapt to the methods of the new team?  I, mean, different coaches coach and train differently.  They have different plays.  Wouldn't that handicap the kid?

I ask this with no crying.  Weight limits aren't going to affect my son.  He's 7 and only weighs 50 pounds, lol.

[BigD 95]

Good point LilBobcatMom. 

[LB-9]

I hope ya'll realize what ya'll are asking for.  Recertification before every game?  I have seen that in Pop Warner, and it sucks.  In order for this to happen, we would definitely have to revisit our LO rules, and limitations.  It is too hard on a team to gameplan all week long, just to get to the game and your starting LB or RB is 1 lb over the LO limit, and now has to play on the line, in which he has never practiced.  That starts the fussing over the scales calibrations, and then the fussing over cheating.  I do agree that we should bump up the weights in Junior to 110 for LO and 135 for the cap, but to check weight every week would not be good.  To me it is fair that a kid weighed in under the maximun allowed weight at certification, and is now a few pounds over.  So what, I don't hear anyone complaining that a child was 10 at certification and is now 11.  To me it is the same.  Also, the STJFL board would have to get larger, because that would require a STJFL official at every field for weight in before each game.  God forbid, that official be from the team playing.  Then you get more crying and cheating accusations.  Please let this rest, before someone takes off with it.

You are right, STJFL was formed with this cert. at each game being one of the driving forces that pushed us away from POP Warner due to parents and coaches starving kids all season prohibiting their natural growth and even sweating down players before a game having them dehydrated before even stepping onto the field. The weights are fine at the end of the day you just have to play nothing will ever cover every situation.

In response to captainclaude, starving  and sweating out kids to make the the first weigh in already goes on.  I don't see your point! Besides, any coach or parent that would starve or sweat their kid out all season just so they could handle the ball, should have their head examined! I don't have to tell you how unhealthy that is! Why not monitor players weights so that they could play at their natural weight and no one team could have a unfair advantage over the next. Their could be a rule set up to allow a player to gain one pound per week up to a maximum of 8 lbs. for an 8 week season. Use the players original weigh in cert. card as a starting point for his weight to be monitored by. Leave the weighing of a player or players up to an opposing coach, just like the mpr's are done.

[queenb77630]

I think the "checking weight at each game" is 100% silly and useles and would cause way to much trouble and heartache.  If a child passes the weight test, what do you think is gonna happen during the next few months? He is gonna gain 50 pounds or something?  Get real!!!!  5 pounds tops and then that will more then likely be muscle and not fat because of the workouts those kids get.

In response to what someone, and I don't remember who it was, who said that a board member needs to be at the weigh ins, I can't say for the entire day, but I can guarantee you that there were numberous board members there when my son was certified to play.  I 100% remember that because they commented on how "big" (not fat!) he was for being only 9.  Shoot, he was taller then some of the guys who were weighing him!!!

Again, I think that HEIGHT needs to be taken into consideration when the WEIGHT is being calculated.  That would be beneficial to children like my son.  

To weigh in at each game? NO NO NO and again NO

[LB-9]

LB-9 I do understand the pros of this issue, and I was only stating a few of the cons that I have seen firsthand.  Not sure what you meant by the people "crying", because I definitely was not doing that, and I most definitely am not a cheater.  When I began coaching STJFL, the rules were different from any I had ever seen, and I still followed them.  If the rules were to change, I will still follow them.  I personally don't see anything wrong with the weight certification that we already have in place, as long as everybody follows it.  I for one, know for a fact that we faced running backs this year that were over the LO weight requirement, heck they were bigger than everyone on my team, including my LO's.  I didn't cry about it, because technically no rule was broken.  My son is only 65 pounds (10 years old), so this is not a personal issue for me at all.  I just think that if they are the same age then who cares about weight, because 2 years from now in Junior High they will either have to play with them or quit.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know the safety concerns, I'm just saying let's not water the league down more than it already is with more technicalities.  Can we just play good old American football?

No offense intended Big D 95, I was merely referring to your earlier quote of "Then you get more crying and cheating accusations." I used to play Junior Cardinal Football in Beaumont in the late 80's. We were required to weigh in every game with both coaches and a board member present. I was a running back and my weight was in question every week, because I was tall,  but I made weight "with my pads on none the less." (Senior Tackle) The point I am trying to make is that both coaches were present to see mine and every other players weight that was in question. Not one time was their ever an accusation of cheating amongst any of the coaches or teams we played. It was set up so that there was no way to bend the rules. Any player that any opposing coach thought was overweight, was  weighed and the air was cleared right then.

[BigD 95]

I agree Queen, what kind of weight do you think these kids are going to gain?  Unless you put your child on the "juice", he will not blow up to a size where it becomes an advantage.  What is the difference between 99 lbs. and 101 lbs.?  Yeah, I know 2 lbs, but seriously, how much of an advantage is that?  Like Queen B said, the added weight could be from building muscle.  

[td]

These are interesting points about the weight limits! I have been an observer of the league for a while and have friends involved in coaching. I have been to several STJFL games throughout the years, and was at the Superbowl weekend this year, which included 3 Great Games. After reading the first post about the weight limits, I feel as the though the current weight limits are correct with the exception of raising the max weight in junior to 135lbs.  The LO weight limits in the other 3 weight classes look fair to me. This brings up another interesting point.  Why is there not a league policy in place to monitor players weights throughout the season? I have noticed in several games where I questioned whether or not a runningback was under the allowable weight limit for their respective division. It would seem to me that this poses a major safety issue for the rest of the players on the field, not to mention opens the league up for a major liability law suit. I have been involved in the insurance industry for 20 years and have seen such law suits on several occasions. I would propose a system by which any coach from an opposing team could weigh  an opposing "questionable player" before game time to make sure that the player still meets the league's weight limit for that division. This would in turn enable the league to monitor the safety of the players more closely.  Also, this would keep coaches from having prospective players to diet for 3 months before the season just to make "one" weigh in so they can handle the football. I feel as though players should play at their natural weight rather dieting down before weigh in only to put back on 10 or 15 pounds after the weigh in. Players that have to diet to make weigh in, and want to handle the football, should step up to the next weight division so that thier skills can be challenged by players of equivalent size and talent. This only makes the players better!

You made a very interesting point. I too am in the insurance industry and didn't see anything that you said that would prevent a lawsuit. The lawsuit would occur after the accident. Just because the coach has the right to weigh a kid doesn't prevent a lawsuit. What it does is put liability on a coach if in fact he didn't weigh the kid. If the kid was weighed and the scales were wrong........... Nothing will stop someone from filing suit if that's what they want to do. The weigh in is similar to a fighter weighing in.

[thetragichippy]

Are we not getting a little deep here?

[teamraider]

BigD has a point... We shouldn’t open Pandora’s Box here, but we could accomplish everything that needs to happen with a few minor changes to the STJFL bylaws.

1. Leave Pee Wee and Senior weights where they are at currently.

2. Split the difference and increase the Junior weights:

     a. Certification weight of 105 with a cap of 115 for LO.

     b. Certification weight of 135 with a cap of 150 for Division.

3. Give each head coach three weight challenges per season and all playoff games.

This way we have a certification weight and an allowance for growth within the season. In the end we have increased the weights to allow for the natural growth of a player and we have kept everything safe and fair. The POP Warner method is too complicated and hard to keep up with, we shouldn’t have to re-certify before each game. But as a head coach, I wouldn’t have a problem with a fair weight margin that could be challenged. The only thing we would have to adopt from POP Warner is that each league would have to purchase a scale and assign a weight official. It shouldn’t be a problem for a league to drag out a scale along with their field setup on Saturday mornings.

Regular growth is acceptable, but I also agree with BigD in that there have been games this year where a player appears to be WAY outside the margin of regular growth (almost to the point of cheating). A head coach should have a method to challenge that situation other than the original certification cards. However, I also agree with LB-9 in that some plan needs to be imposed for safety and insurance purposes. All I can say about the issue of weight changes adding to controversy is that I believe it would eliminate any doubt as to a player’s eligibility prior to the start of the game.

[BIGWORM]

Hope no one will ask for restrictions on height..cause then that will be a problem for my son...we really need to be careful about what we want with these weight restrictions....more rules....more problems....especially for the US...and US know who US is....lol ;)

Sorry to say this but some kids are unstoppable...not bragging or boasting...but it is true....these are kids and they are going to grow and gain weight...some more than others...

[player66]

I suggest all of you go to your local boards make these suggestion. You will find out quickly were you stand. Some have suggested go strictly by age and no wieght limits. Like middle school. I think most people do not understand and are thinking narrow minded about wieght. You have to look at the greater whole of the league. Things are fine the way they are., but I am not in the league naymore so more power to all of you and your ideas. Like I said go to your local board and see where it goes. They are the ones that set the agenda and propose changes.