Guest DickVitale Posted January 2, 2009 Report Posted January 2, 2009 The argument about small school (A, 2A, & 3A) vs. big school (4A, 5A) in basketball just baffles me....A small school player has to be REALLY special to be recruited on the next level...There are not many Joseph Jones' (Normangee to Texas A&M) out there...he was a 6'9 big school player that happened to play 1A ball...rare. Particularly THIS area...Some of you small town guys are getting out of hand thinking that your guys are so great because they make "2A or 3A All State"... :...Come on folks, be realistic...let me show you something: In the last 10 years (since 1998) how many Small schoool guys from THIS area actually was recruited and PLAYED on the next level, compared to the large schools? And don't argue that there are more students to choose from, because that matters not in this debate... Small school- Ashton Hall (Kountze to Tulsa to Angelina to Lamar), Tremain Hancock (Kountze to Northwestern St.) CJ Busby (Kountze to Lee JC) Freedie Haynes (Kountze to Lee JC)...Ryan Donahoe (HJ to Navarro), Duane Durley (HJ to Richland College)....are there more? I doubt it... Should I really make a big school list? OK since you insist, but the numbers are NOT EVEN CLOSE.. Kendrick Perkins (Ozen to NBA) * sidenote- I remember when some of you bamas on here were calling him overrated and now cant stay off of his jock! Yes YOU DID!**Keena Young (Ozen to South Plains JC to BYU to EUROPE), Brandon Chappell (Ozen to Lamar then professional in Mexico), Trey McDowell (Westbrook to La. Tech), Clarence Matthews (Central to Tennessee State), Jason Breckenridge (Ozen to Prairie View A&M), Jason Dabney (Ozen to Texas Southern) Kris Richards (Ozen to Tulane), Rod Bellard (Ozen to St.Mary's) ....and the list goes on and on, and I was not even COUNTING the kids that opted to go JUCO. Come on people, NUMBERS do not lie...I just want you guys to stop the madness...Silsbee's Robinson is a really good high school 3A player...really good...BUT he will not be recruited more than Decarlos Franks from Ozen, Jamar Gulley from Central or Willie Jefferson (If he went basketball) from Ozen...Thats just a fact.
bojonomore Posted January 2, 2009 Report Posted January 2, 2009 whoa. I'm glad i go to a big school ;D I think you are really Dick Vitale thats good stuff but you are leaving out a bunch of people. Your big school list is straight ozen theres more than just them
BLUEDOVE3 Posted January 2, 2009 Report Posted January 2, 2009 I'd love to see the counter arguments to this topic from some people.
AirForce84 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Dickie V, you are correct in your assumption that the big school players are more likely to be recruited than small school, but there are some issues involved. For instance, as a recruiter, why would I try to sign a 5'7'" guard with amazing skill if I can sign a 6'2" guard with the same skill level? That also goes for any other position as well. And yes attitude plays in as well, but you can't coach size. Also the competition level night in and night out is going to be better at the big schools and that IS due IN PART to numbers. Therefore your 4A-5A kids are usually competition and battle tested over the course of their seasons. Those are just a couple things that go into it. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. BTW, I can't speak for other schools but there have been some players from Silsbee that have gone to the next level and were successful. Those that immediately come to mind are: David Brown (Memphis), Eddie Fobbs (Sam Houston St - Pro overseas), David Green (McNeese), Thaddeus Holden (Tennesse), James Simmons (Rice), Darrell McArthur (UH). I am sure I am missing at least a couple more but a lot of small schools probably have at least a few that have done the same. Oh, I forgot Jason Dabney's uncle who happens to be mine as well, Michael Dabney (Hardin-Simmons). Dickie, keep doing what you do, you are very knowledgeable about this game.
AggiesAreWe Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Dickie V, you are correct in your assumption that the big school players are more likely to be recruited than small school, but there are some issues involved. For instance, as a recruiter, why would I try to sign a 5'7'" guard with amazing skill if I can sign a 6'2" guard with the same skill level? That also goes for any other position as well. And yes attitude plays in as well, but you can't coach size. Also the competition level night in and night out is going to be better at the big schools and that IS due IN PART to numbers. Therefore your 4A-5A kids are usually competition and battle tested over the course of their seasons. Those are just a couple things that go into it. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. BTW, I can't speak for other schools but there have been some players from Silsbee that have gone to the next level and were successful. Those that immediately come to mind are: David Brown (Memphis), Eddie Fobbs (Sam Houston St - Pro overseas), David Green (McNeese), Thaddeus Holden (Tennesse), James Simmons (Rice), Darrell McArthur (UH). I am sure I am missing at least a couple more but a lot of small schools probably have at least a few that have done the same. Oh, I forgot Jason Dabney's uncle who happens to be mine as well, Michael Dabney (Hardin-Simmons). Dickie, keep doing what you do, you are very knowledgeable about this game. A few more Silsbee Tiger college players: Lloyd McArthur Delton Harper Ferrell Artis Lewis Arline Darryl Phillips Dexter Wallace Damion Bush Darrell Gardener There are others. Not bad for a small school.
Lazeek Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 AAW how do you leave off Thaydeus Holden who played for LU and then transferred to Tennessee?
AggiesAreWe Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 AAW how do you leave off Thaydeus Holden who played for LU and then transferred to Tennessee? I did not leave off Thadeus Holden, he was already mentioned in the post above mine. I was posting some of the Tiger players that weren't mentioned.
Lazeek Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 True.......sorry I have not eaten this morning so my brain is not functioning!!!!! :o
AggiesAreWe Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 True.......sorry I have not eaten this morning so my brain is not functioning!!!!! :o No prob. I know the feeling.
BLUEDOVE3 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 True.......sorry I have not eaten this morning so my brain is not functioning!!!!! :o And you have no idea how I wanted to have a sarcastic remark about now
Master T Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 True.......sorry I have not eaten this morning so my brain is not functioning!!!!! :o And you have no idea how I wanted to have a sarcastic remark about now ' I was thinking the same thing. ;D ;D ;D
whsalum Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 It amazes me that anyone could think the number of A's behind your school can judge ones talent as a basketball player.Any of the guys you listed at the small school side would have been legit at the 4-a or 5-a level.The biggest misconception on the small school side comes from the post position.A 6'2" post player may be all state at the high school level but he's not going anywhere to play college ball.The D-1 guards now are all 6'3" and up are all pretty equal in their skills.The biggest difference in the recruiting comes from the high school coaches ability to sell their kids.One thing that is historically overlooked in recruiting is character.A ton of kids are recruited and never see the opening day because of lackluster work ethic.The biggest obstacle Robinson would have playing college ball would be size but he would be able to play for Ozen,Central,WB or Memorial ;)
AggiesAreWe Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 It amazes me that anyone could think the number of A's behind your school can judge ones talent as a basketball player.Any of the guys you listed at the small school side would have been legit at the 4-a or 5-a level.The biggest misconception on the small school side comes from the post position.A 6'2" post player may be all state at the high school level but he's not going anywhere to play college ball.The D-1 guards now are all 6'3" and up are all pretty equal in their skills.The biggest difference in the recruiting comes from the high school coaches ability to sell their kids.One thing that is historically overlooked in recruiting is character.A ton of kids are recruited and never see the opening day because of lackluster work ethic.The biggest obstacle Robinson would have playing college ball would be size but he would be able to play for Ozen,Central,WB or Memorial ;) Great point, whsalum.
BLUEDOVE3 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 It amazes me that anyone could think the number of A's behind your school can judge ones talent as a basketball player.Any of the guys you listed at the small school side would have been legit at the 4-a or 5-a level.The biggest misconception on the small school side comes from the post position.A 6'2" post player may be all state at the high school level but he's not going anywhere to play college ball.The D-1 guards now are all 6'3" and up are all pretty equal in their skills.The biggest difference in the recruiting comes from the high school coaches ability to sell their kids.One thing that is historically overlooked in recruiting is character.A ton of kids are recruited and never see the opening day because of lackluster work ethic.The biggest obstacle Robinson would have playing college ball would be size but he would be able to play for Ozen,Central,WB or Memorial ;) I think you're missing the point or don't want to face the reality about the differences in 2-A, 3-a versus 5-A. I always use the kid from Hardin-Jefferson who was a super star there about a year ago. In fact, we could probably name several players from that program who were stars at HJ. With all their 3-A talent, they were not major D-1 material. If you are under 6'3", you better have some super talent to compete at that level, or you're headed to JUCO or Lamar University.
whsalum Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 I think a knee injury had more to do with the kid from HJ than his talent level.I know he had several D-1 offers on the table after his senior season.I saw every game at the state playoffs that year from 1-A to 5-A and I'm a firm believer that kid would have excelled on any club at the drum that season.Once again a players ability has absolutely nothing to do with the size of his school.Sadly a lot of small town kids these days transfer to bigger schools to get recognition.Did they get better,no,did they get more exposure,you bet they did.
BLUEDOVE3 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 I think a knee injury had more to do with the kid from HJ than his talent level.I know he had several D-1 offers on the table after his senior season.I saw every game at the state playoffs that year from 1-A to 5-A and I'm a firm believer that kid would have excelled on any club at the drum that season.Once again a players ability has absolutely nothing to do with the size of his school.Sadly a lot of small town kids these days transfer to bigger schools to get recognition.Did they get better,no,did they get more exposure,you bet they did. The kid thought he would get offers from major D-1 schools. He did get offers from D-1 schools at the mid major level. Okay, name all your HJ guards in the past 10 years and the schools they attended to play ball. I'm really not familiar with HJ, but lets play name the player and the school he played for. Let me make this clear. I'm not saying 3-A players (guards)can't play at a higher level, but they would have to have some major skills about them, (i.e. quickness......)
Guest nostradamus Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 I'll chime in here since I was involved in said player's recruiting process. He played his junior high and 9th grade years in Spring ISD. In fact, was slated to be the back-up to Nic Wise going into his sophomore year before he moved back to HJ. During the spring of his senior year he went and played in a couple of unsigned senior events over in Houston. The 5A coach that put these on is a friend of mine. He called me following each event. His exact words were: "If this kid had played 5A ball in Houston he would have been signed after his junior season." He told me that he straight up outplayed several kids that were juniors that were getting offers from Nebraska, Texas Tech, Wisconsin, and the likes. The bottom line is, how many major DI coaches will make the trip to Sour Lake, Texas to see a kid play unless he is a guard averaging 40 a game or he is a post man that is 6'10" or better. The major DI guys aren't gonna do it. The SLC guys will because those are the types of kids the SLC has to go find.....they can't just show up at an AAU tournament and sign the 10 best players there. They have to find the talented ones that haven't been seen. Said player could have played and excelled just fine at a high mid-major level. He was given mis-information and chose to believe it. During his recruiting process SFA wanted him very badly. The ONLY reason they even came to watch him was because the assistant coach there was a former high school coach and an acquaintance.....so SFA sent him down to watch a game.....after that one game SUDDENLY the head coach started showing up...it was like they couldn't believe that a legit player could come from such a small town so they don't want to waste their time. IMO, the A's ONLY matter because that is a stereotype that universities have developed. Perhaps it is because if you go to a 5A game to watch you will see a bigger collection of better players than at a lower level?? Bottom line is, if a kid can play then he can play.
AggiesAreWe Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 I'll chime in here since I was involved in said player's recruiting process. He played his junior high and 9th grade years in Spring ISD. In fact, was slated to be the back-up to Nic Wise going into his sophomore year before he moved back to HJ. During the spring of his senior year he went and played in a couple of unsigned senior events over in Houston. The 5A coach that put these on is a friend of mine. He called me following each event. His exact words were: "If this kid had played 5A ball in Houston he would have been signed after his junior season." He told me that he straight up outplayed several kids that were juniors that were getting offers from Nebraska, Texas Tech, Wisconsin, and the likes. The bottom line is, how many major DI coaches will make the trip to Sour Lake, Texas to see a kid play unless he is a guard averaging 40 a game or he is a post man that is 6'10" or better. The major DI guys aren't gonna do it. The SLC guys will because those are the types of kids the SLC has to go find.....they can't just show up at an AAU tournament and sign the 10 best players there. They have to find the talented ones that haven't been seen. Said player could have played and excelled just fine at a high mid-major level. He was given mis-information and chose to believe it. During his recruiting process SFA wanted him very badly. The ONLY reason they even came to watch him was because the assistant coach there was a former high school coach and an acquaintance.....so SFA sent him down to watch a game.....after that one game SUDDENLY the head coach started showing up...it was like they couldn't believe that a legit player could come from such a small town so they don't want to waste their time. IMO, the A's ONLY matter because that is a stereotype that universities have developed. Perhaps it is because if you go to a 5A game to watch you will see a bigger collection of better players than at a lower level?? Bottom line is, if a kid can play then he can play. Nuff said. Thanks Nos.
ForeverADog Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 To try to clarify Nos' point, I think he is saying the overall average player in a big school is better than the average player in a small school. Its the fourth and fifth starter and the bench players that are better for the big schools. The top talent is usually good enough to be top talent at both their small school and a big school. Exposure is the key. Scouts aren't going to go see one possible recruit from a small school playing with nine other players that have really no shot at the next level when they can go to a big school game and see 3 or 4 players who can make it at the next level.
team first Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Wow...Wow..Wow...First of all scouts don't show up at hs gyms anymore..Kids are getting looks in the summer..This is not big school vs small school...This is..like Nost said, "Can the kid play." We don't know the answer to that..Can Robinson play D1..My opinion ..No..Too small..Guards at that level, are as quick, but bigger and taller and stronger and he cant shoot good enough at this point. Getting to the basket at that level being that small is non-existent..Can he playJUCO or NAIA, my opinion yes...Less talent there...If Arline and Holden play at Silsbee when it is a 3A school, does that mean they can't be as good as they were..Nope, Would sign em in a heart beat because...They could PLAY...Size at the D1 level is a near must...unless like the 2 L.U. guards...Can GO..vs most clubs...If they had size, they would be even more productive. Scouts are not going to say...Don't like the kid, he plays 3A..They will say" Hurry up and sign him................If he can go....All depends on what the scout thinks! END: The simple answer to why there are more schools getting kids signed at the 4A and 5A level is that there are more kids to choose from at the 4A and 5A level... Thought that was a given.
HJHawks#5 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 None of this matters! The only thing that matters is where Jarvis is going!!! ;D ;D ;D
ForeverADog Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Well where is he going? You probably would know better than us.
HJHawks#5 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 He hasn't made up his mind as far as I know! But I'm sure no where big! Because he's from a 3A school.
ForeverADog Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 He hasn't made up his mind as far as I know! But I'm sure no where big! Because he's from a 3A school. Haha according to this your right....
HJHawks#5 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Ha well that's what everyone says. If you dont go to a big high school, you're not goin to a big college!
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