EAGLE07 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 In select ball ( most cases--not all ) money talks, coach will tell you whatever you want to hear as long as the money keeps coming. You're on the wrong select team. That hasn't been the case in our experiences. I'm too old to play ball and I have very little dealings with select ball. As I said earlier ( most cases --not all)............................. I'm honestly not trying to start anything here...but if you have very little dealings w/ select ball, as you say.....how are you qualified to make the statement you made ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDOVE3 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 In select ball ( most cases--not all ) money talks, coach will tell you whatever you want to hear as long as the money keeps coming. You're on the wrong select team. That hasn't been the case in our experiences. I'm too old to play ball and I have very little dealings with select ball. As I said earlier ( most cases --not all)............................. I'm honestly not trying to start anything here...but if you have very little dealings w/ select ball, as you say.....how are you qualified to make the statement you made ? lol! I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAGLE07 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 In select ball ( most cases--not all ) money talks, coach will tell you whatever you want to hear as long as the money keeps coming. You're on the wrong select team. That hasn't been the case in our experiences. I'm too old to play ball and I have very little dealings with select ball. As I said earlier ( most cases --not all)............................. I'm honestly not trying to start anything here...but if you have very little dealings w/ select ball, as you say.....how are you qualified to make the statement you made ? lol! I was thinking the same thing. I couldn't resist. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I have never made an issue of my kids playing time and never will. If he is needed he plays if not he sits. There are times when you must speak up especially when a situation arises that is detrimental to your school district, town, and community in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twilyms Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So what are a coaches responsibility's?...To put the communities best foot forward which may or may not mean best talent! The best talent in the district might be a moron, can't make passing grades or stays in trouble. A high school coach must juggle several different situations that don't exist in select. He has to deal with the hand he is dealt and sometimes kids get lost in the shuffle. A coach needs to have a zero gossip factor to build a strong unified team. This is where the parents and crowned often bring down good teams with to much gossip and back stabbing and rumors flying around which is all detrimental to the idea of TEAM. If a coach tells the team not to gossip and tell your dad while you're at it then we can all focus on the game. Just think one psycho dad can ruin a whole season. I believe once you get to high school, the responsibility of the coach is to put the team in the best situation to win. Playing time is earned during practice time. When other influences other than ability determine who plays and who sits, that when credibility and respect are diminished. I can understand not playing the moron trouble making star, but when a better athlete is sitting because a kid's parent moved the coach to town or baby sits their kid's on the weekend, how do you respect that person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So what are a coaches responsibility's?...To put the communities best foot forward which may or may not mean best talent! The best talent in the district might be a moron, can't make passing grades or stays in trouble. A high school coach must juggle several different situations that don't exist in select. He has to deal with the hand he is dealt and sometimes kids get lost in the shuffle. A coach needs to have a zero gossip factor to build a strong unified team. This is where the parents and crowned often bring down good teams with to much gossip and back stabbing and rumors flying around which is all detrimental to the idea of TEAM. If a coach tells the team not to gossip and tell your dad while you're at it then we can all focus on the game. Just think one psycho dad can ruin a whole season. I believe once you get to high school, the responsibility of the coach is to put the team in the best situation to win. Playing time is earned during practice time. When other influences other than ability determine who plays and who sits, that when credibility and respect are diminished. I can understand not playing the moron trouble making star, but when a better athlete is sitting because a kid's parent moved the coach to town or baby sits their kid's on the weekend, how do you respect that person? The short answer is that you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westend1 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think all high school coaches should get out and watch youth programs whenever possible. Most of us crazy parents have seen these kids play for many years. By the time high school arrives, most know who are the best players. This leads to the perception that the coach is an idiot, when he places kids out of position early in the season. A good coach will figure it out, eventyually(or develop the kid he has in there), but it takes time. The real frustration sets in when they never figure it out. I think most coaches get it right, in the end. But, if they would just pay a little more attention when the kids are 13-14, they would have a lot shallower learning curve. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAGLE07 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think all high school coaches should get out and watch youth programs whenever possible. Most of us crazy parents have seen these kids play for many years. By the time high school arrives, most know who are the best players. This leads to the perception that the coach is an idiot, when he places kids out of position early in the season. A good coach will figure it out, eventyually(or develop the kid he has in there), but it takes time. The real frustration sets in when they never figure it out. I think most coaches get it right, in the end. But, if they would just pay a little more attention when the kids are 13-14, they would have a lot shallowere learning curve. JMO Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So basically the high school coach should listen to those who have watched the kids play all the way up through little league and put the kids in those positions in high school. I disagree if that is what is implied in the previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westend1 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So basically the high school coach should listen to those who have watched the kids play all the way up through little league and put the kids in those positions in high school. I disagree if that is what is implied in the previous post. Read the post,oldman. I said the coaches need to get out and watch the kids. Never did I say anything about listening to those who have watched them. If I were getting paid to coach, I certainly would want to see what was coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 No, you said by the time high school arrives the parents know who the best players are. Shouldn't the coach form an opinion on his own. I know for a fact many high school coaches go to games , but don't get around parents or even care to be seen because parents will talk about how good their kid is. I , as a coach, would want to for my own opinion as to the talent I have on my team and put them where I think they will do best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westend1 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 You ask "shouldn't they form an opinion on his own?" That is the whole point of the post. He should. And he would do a better job if he went to watch them play. It's good that your coaches get out to see the younger kids play. i don't see that often, if ever, around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rambleonus Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So all of y'all on your own time still work on week nights and weekends? As was stated before high school coaches are teachers first then coaches. Like everyone else here I doubt they want to still "work" on week nights and weekends when the season is over or school is out. We have allot of parents here who are putting way too much into this and forgetting about the kids. Either a kid has the talent or doesn't. It doesn't matter how much select ball he plays or lessons he takes. Or what coach he has. If he can't field it, throw it or, hit it, he's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westend1 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Some work harder and longer hours than others, just like any job. Those are the ones that are probably better at their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strosbros Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Great article. No respect for High School coaches is a two way street...in today's world there is a lot more knowledge of the sport fundamentals and a lot more of daddy's money spent on professional lessons than ever before. So where does a high school coach hibernate during the summer? Theres is no question that select or tournament baseball, basketball has evolved and developed better athletes than "most" high school programs. A lot of high school coaches are stuck in the sixties and will not accept the fact that daddy's money provides them with some of their best talent. Some kids will develop bad habits during the high school season and some stay away from high school sports altogether. Did your high school coach have it right way back then? probably not, how many coaches know how to teach pitching and will you turn your high school coach loose on your boy.....? I agree with you. High school athletics is a two-way sport. I believe coaches need to make more of an effort to get to summer games of their athletes. Better yet, go to the younger age leagues and begin creating the "culture" for your program by sharing knowledge or plays, in the case of football and basketball, with the coaches so the kids coming into high school have been introduced to the "system". BUT, we have big problem. As was pointed out above, many coaches are teachers first, coaches second. If they tried to live off their coaching pay, and not their teacher pay, they would starve. These professional lessons that Daddy's money pays for are being instructed by coaches who focus solely on coaching. Some of whom make upwards of $40-50,000 per year as professional coaches. Unfortunately, many schools and districts cannot afford a pure coach for every sport, whose only focus is coaching their team. Therefore, we have to live with the system we currently have (coaches who are teachers first). Until the economics improve in these school systems, we will have to understand that comparisons made between "professional coaches" and school-paid coaches are unfair comparisons. Sometimes I wonder if the frustration some feel about their coaches is because they are used to their money "buying" playing time for kids in youth athletics. When kids get to high school, they realize money can't buy playing time as easily as it used to. Wow. I think the writer of this excellent article had many SETX posters in mind, like the two quoted above. Something you "Daddies dishing out the money" for private lessons need to remember about some of the so called "professional private coaches" out there is that many of these coaches are not coaching in the school systems because they aren't willing to work for the chicken feed teachers are paid. As a parent, I have respect for the high school coach because I know they are in it for the love of the game and the kids that play it. Many private coaches will tell you whatever you want to hear about your golden child, as long as you keep bringing him and paying for those pricey lessons. Many don't hesitate to tell you the high school coach doesn't know what he is talking about, "your boy is the best there is, that'll be $50 please". IMO private lessons and select ball is a double edged sword. It is great to want to improve on your skills beyond what you can get in high school athletics, but I have seen all of this specializing transform players and parents. Total lack of respect for the coaches that have put years of blood sweat and tears into very successful programs in our area are constantly being second guessed and bashed on public forums such as these while many private coaches are deemed "guru" simply because you are writing them a check. I'd love to compare resumes of some of our great local high school coaches with any of the private ones out there...just like the successful teams they create, I think their knowledge of the game and the lessons they can provide our kids would be hard to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rambleonus Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDOVE3 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think all high school coaches should get out and watch youth programs whenever possible. Most of us crazy parents have seen these kids play for many years. By the time high school arrives, most know who are the best players. This leads to the perception that the coach is an idiot, when he places kids out of position early in the season. A good coach will figure it out, eventyually(or develop the kid he has in there), but it takes time. The real frustration sets in when they never figure it out. I think most coaches get it right, in the end. But, if they would just pay a little more attention when the kids are 13-14, they would have a lot shallower learning curve. JMO Here! Here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDOVE3 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So all of y'all on your own time still work on week nights and weekends? As was stated before high school coaches are teachers first then coaches. Like everyone else here I doubt they want to still "work" on week nights and weekends when the season is over or school is out. We have allot of parents here who are putting way too much into this and forgetting about the kids. Either a kid has the talent or doesn't. It doesn't matter how much select ball he plays or lessons he takes. Or what coach he has. If he can't field it, throw it or, hit it, he's done. I realize I'm on baseball here (basketball is my thing), but if you can't field it, throw it, hit it, or see it; maybe you shouldn't be playing select ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDOVE3 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Great article. No respect for High School coaches is a two way street...in today's world there is a lot more knowledge of the sport fundamentals and a lot more of daddy's money spent on professional lessons than ever before. So where does a high school coach hibernate during the summer? Theres is no question that select or tournament baseball, basketball has evolved and developed better athletes than "most" high school programs. A lot of high school coaches are stuck in the sixties and will not accept the fact that daddy's money provides them with some of their best talent. Some kids will develop bad habits during the high school season and some stay away from high school sports altogether. Did your high school coach have it right way back then? probably not, how many coaches know how to teach pitching and will you turn your high school coach loose on your boy.....? I agree with you. High school athletics is a two-way sport. I believe coaches need to make more of an effort to get to summer games of their athletes. Better yet, go to the younger age leagues and begin creating the "culture" for your program by sharing knowledge or plays, in the case of football and basketball, with the coaches so the kids coming into high school have been introduced to the "system". BUT, we have big problem. As was pointed out above, many coaches are teachers first, coaches second. If they tried to live off their coaching pay, and not their teacher pay, they would starve. These professional lessons that Daddy's money pays for are being instructed by coaches who focus solely on coaching. Some of whom make upwards of $40-50,000 per year as professional coaches. Unfortunately, many schools and districts cannot afford a pure coach for every sport, whose only focus is coaching their team. Therefore, we have to live with the system we currently have (coaches who are teachers first). Until the economics improve in these school systems, we will have to understand that comparisons made between "professional coaches" and school-paid coaches are unfair comparisons. Sometimes I wonder if the frustration some feel about their coaches is because they are used to their money "buying" playing time for kids in youth athletics. When kids get to high school, they realize money can't buy playing time as easily as it used to. Wow. I think the writer of this excellent article had many SETX posters in mind, like the two quoted above. Something you "Daddies dishing out the money" for private lessons need to remember about some of the so called "professional private coaches" out there is that many of these coaches are not coaching in the school systems because they aren't willing to work for the chicken feed teachers are paid. As a parent, I have respect for the high school coach because I know they are in it for the love of the game and the kids that play it. Many private coaches will tell you whatever you want to hear about your golden child, as long as you keep bringing him and paying for those pricey lessons. Many don't hesitate to tell you the high school coach doesn't know what he is talking about, "your boy is the best there is, that'll be $50 please". IMO private lessons and select ball is a double edged sword. It is great to want to improve on your skills beyond what you can get in high school athletics, but I have seen all of this specializing transform players and parents. Total lack of respect for the coaches that have put years of blood sweat and tears into very successful programs in our area are constantly being second guessed and bashed on public forums such as these while many private coaches are deemed "guru" simply because you are writing them a check. I'd love to compare resumes of some of our great local high school coaches with any of the private ones out there...just like the successful teams they create, I think their knowledge of the game and the lessons they can provide our kids would be hard to beat. Points well taken coach. But again, in my humble opinion, a private coach isn't needed until our young star shows some above average ability in their sport. And then there are those kids who listen to coaches than their parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rambleonus Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Theres a team for everybody as long as you have the $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredoldcoach Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think it is ok for coaches to go watch some of the kids that will be coming his way in the future. But I do not agree with him going out to watch for the reasons you guys list. DAD, the little league coach, has been playing him at SS and batting him 3rd since he was wearing diapers. The assitant coaches son is hitting clean up and pitching. No high school coach cares where these kids played in little league. No high school coach cares who was the best in little league. All they care about who is the best player now! (and believe me it is rarely the one that was the best in little league) One guy wrote, "select makes players better". This may be or may not be the truth. I do know one thng I believe is truth. Select does not make our local high school teams better. Local examples: In the eighties and ninties the Houston area schools were ahead of us and already playing selcet ball. Our local playoff teams rolled though Houston like a steam roller after spending the entire year practicing and playing here at home. (TOGETHER) We had a rep in Austin about ten years running. We had teams from the same district playing all of the way through the bracket and meeting in the region finals. Select baseball moved into SETEX and our local high school teams have fallen off of the map. You take the best kids (three or four) off of 8 teams in the area and you just left 8 local high school teams playing in a weak pony league. When is the last playoff run that we have had in 4A or 5A? When is the last top ten team that we have had in 4A or 5A? When is the last team that we had that competed to go to Austin? Don't say Jasper either because they play together year round. I am sure you are going to be able to name a school or two that beat the recent trend, but the name of that school will not be Westbrook, it will not be Nederland, it will not be Vidor, it will not be Lumberton, it will not be LCM, it will not be Ozen, it will not be PNG, it will not be Dayton, it will not be Barbers Hill, and it will not be Livingston. Baseball and basketball! Play together or you will lose. That is just an honest opinion of a retiredoldcoach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIP09 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So what are a coaches responsibility's?...To put the communities best foot forward which may or may not mean best talent! The best talent in the district might be a moron, can't make passing grades or stays in trouble. A high school coach must juggle several different situations that don't exist in select. He has to deal with the hand he is dealt and sometimes kids get lost in the shuffle. A coach needs to have a zero gossip factor to build a strong unified team. This is where the parents and crowned often bring down good teams with to much gossip and back stabbing and rumors flying around which is all detrimental to the idea of TEAM. If a coach tells the team not to gossip and tell your dad while you're at it then we can all focus on the game. Just think one psycho dad can ruin a whole season. I believe once you get to high school, the responsibility of the coach is to put the team in the best situation to win. Playing time is earned during practice time. When other influences other than ability determine who plays and who sits, that when credibility and respect are diminished. I can understand not playing the moron trouble making star, but when a better athlete is sitting because a kid's parent moved the coach to town or baby sits their kid's on the weekend, how do you respect that person? Well said. I agree completely! Although it does exist, there is no room for politics if your going to lead a team deep into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twilyms Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Money doesn't buy a spot on a select team. There are tryouts. The best make it. Those that aren't good enough get sent packing. Once you make the team, there are monthly dues required that help finance uniforms, equipment, tournaments, etc. All kids pay the same, so no kid "buys" his spot. Select coaches are not gurus. Someone said high school coaches don't want to give up their nights and weekends to go see these players. Let me let you in on a little secret. Select coaches also have regular jobs. They give up their nights for practices. They give up their weekends for tournaments. Parents give up their nights and weekends for it. I guess some are willing to make more sacrifice than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDOVE3 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Theres a team for everybody as long as you have the $. Oh I agree, you'll get on a team. But you won't be ready when it's time to show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDOVE3 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think it is ok for coaches to go watch some of the kids that will be coming his way in the future. But I do not agree with him going out to watch for the reasons you guys list. DAD, the little league coach, has been playing him at SS and batting him 3rd since he was wearing diapers. The assitant coaches son is hitting clean up and pitching. No high school coach cares where these kids played in little league. No high school coach cares who was the best in little league. All they care about who is the best player now! (and believe me it is rarely the one that was the best in little league) One guy wrote, "select makes players better". This may be or may not be the truth. I do know one thng I believe is truth. Select does not make our local high school teams better. Local examples: In the eighties and ninties the Houston area schools were ahead of us and already playing selcet ball. Our local playoff teams rolled though Houston like a steam roller after spending the entire year practicing and playing here at home. (TOGETHER) We had a rep in Austin about ten years running. We had teams from the same district playing all of the way through the bracket and meeting in the region finals. Select baseball moved into SETEX and our local high school teams have fallen off of the map. You take the best kids (three or four) off of 8 teams in the area and you just left 8 local high school teams playing in a weak pony league. When is the last playoff run that we have had in 4A or 5A? When is the last top ten team that we have had in 4A or 5A? When is the last team that we had that competed to go to Austin? Don't say Jasper either because they play together year round. I am sure you are going to be able to name a school or two that beat the recent trend, but the name of that school will not be Westbrook, it will not be Nederland, it will not be Vidor, it will not be Lumberton, it will not be LCM, it will not be Ozen, it will not be PNG, it will not be Dayton, it will not be Barbers Hill, and it will not be Livingston. Baseball and basketball! Play together or you will lose. That is just an honest opinion of a retiredoldcoach. Ah ex-coach, there is one missing ingredient in your statement, and it's possible you were making it a point as well..... Select players have nothing to do with teams. IMO, you're in select ball to be if not the best, then one of the best. All thats personal traaining is for the individual to get better, not the team. Players want to play against the so-called best to get themselves better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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