Parents out of bounds; respect for coaches waning

[Rice]

What most parents find that is not fair about some coaches is that they are found to have two (2) set of standards for kids on the teams. Some kids can do as they wish, say what they wont to say and break rules. If certain kids do the same they are punished for it. For an example at our school if your parent is on the school board you will have a free pass no mater what. The coach is got to protect his job.

[JS]

What most parents find that is not fair about some coaches is that they are found to have two (2) set of standards for kids on the teams. Some kids can do as they wish, say what they wont to say and break rules. If certain kids do the same they are punished for it. For an example at our school if your parent is on the school board you will have a free pass no mater what. The coach is got to protect his job.

I have also seen it the other way as well--personally--the kid has to listen to the "jealous experts" in the stands--your daddy this and your daddy that---the kid just worked harder than most but the yik-yak continued until he was offered and accepted a full scholarship to play college football----------

So you see it can go both ways--I could not be more proud of him for succeeding although he never responded verbally to the detractors--he did however respond on the field and in the classroom

[BLUEDOVE3]

What most parents find that is not fair about some coaches is that they are found to have two (2) set of standards for kids on the teams. Some kids can do as they wish, say what they wont to say and break rules. If certain kids do the same they are punished for it. For an example at our school if your parent is on the school board you will have a free pass no mater what. The coach is got to protect his job.

I have also seen it the other way as well--personally--the kid has to listen to the "jealous experts" in the stands--your daddy this and your daddy that---the kid just worked harder than most but the yik-yak continued until he was offered and accepted a full scholarship to play college football----------

So you see it can go both ways--I could not be more proud of him for succeeding although he never responded verbally to the detractors--he did however respond on the field and in the classroom

What did the jealous distractors mean by their comments? Jealous because your son worked hard and was better?

[JS]

What most parents find that is not fair about some coaches is that they are found to have two (2) set of standards for kids on the teams. Some kids can do as they wish, say what they wont to say and break rules. If certain kids do the same they are punished for it. For an example at our school if your parent is on the school board you will have a free pass no mater what. The coach is got to protect his job.

I have also seen it the other way as well--personally--the kid has to listen to the "jealous experts" in the stands--your daddy this and your daddy that---the kid just worked harder than most but the yik-yak continued until he was offered and accepted a full scholarship to play college football----------

So you see it can go both ways--I could not be more proud of him for succeeding although he never responded verbally to the detractors--he did however respond on the field and in the classroom

What did the jealous distractors mean by their comments? Jealous because your son worked hard and was better?

Bingo

[TradinUp BH]

Whatever happened to kids playing Little League to represent your community. Every year the 10-12 year old range leaves LL to play select. Don't get it. Back in the 80's and before, it was a previledge sp? to play for your local LL team. Come all-star time, it was the best your city had against the best of the other city. Now you get some decent players and left overs that didn't play select. An example is Groves, as small as the city is and you have two different leagues, Pony and LL. Why not have one or the other and have all play in one league. I'm not totally against select, I just think it shouldn't start until around 13 YOA because that's when most either stick with baseball or quit. Just my opinion

[BearBryant]

You ask  "shouldn't they form an opinion on his own?"   That is the whole point of the post.  He should.  And he would do a better job if he went to watch them play.  It's good that your coaches get out to see the younger kids play.  i don't see that often, if ever, around here.

Most high school coaches also coach 3 sports, have families, and during the summertime are preparing for the upcoming football season.  They also like to get a little fishing in and what have you.  Most high school coaches are volunteering their time helping their kids little dribbler basketball team, their sons little league team, or their daughters softball team.  A good coach is also going to be a good evaluator of talent so he isn't going to have to go trapsing around southeast texas lurking around select games to watch little Nolan Ryan. 

I've known select coaches who coach these teams  because they've been removed from high school ball, or had trouble in the classroom.  I'll take a high school coach any day over a select coach. 

[JS]

You ask  "shouldn't they form an opinion on his own?"   That is the whole point of the post.  He should.  And he would do a better job if he went to watch them play.  It's good that your coaches get out to see the younger kids play.  i don't see that often, if ever, around here.

Most high school coaches also coach 3 sports, have families, and during the summertime are preparing for the upcoming football season.  They also like to get a little fishing in and what have you.  Most high school coaches are volunteering their time helping their kids little dribbler basketball team, their sons little league team, or their daughters softball team.  A good coach is also going to be a good evaluator of talent so he isn't going to have to go trapsing around southeast texas lurking around select games to watch little Nolan Ryan. 

I've known select coaches who coach these teams  because they've been removed from high school ball, or had trouble in the classroom.  I'll take a high school coach any day over a select coach. 

That is a broad and ignorant post. One of the premier select organizations in the state is run by Mike Rutledge(Kyle Chapman). He and his staff do all of their work pro bono--no charge for their services--in fact he spends a lot of his own money on this organization. All they look for are kids with talent who love to play the game. They do not tolerate attitude problems.

What they are trying to do is help young talented boys turn into talented men while staying on the right path.

If someones kid is playing on a team with a coach as you describe then he is on the wrong team or playing for the wrong reason.

[BearBryant]

How is it broad or ignorant?  I didn't indict all select coaches.  I'm sure most are fine people.  In fact I know few. 

I have, however seen a few broad and ignorant posts talking about high school coaches.

[JS]

How is it broad or ignorant?  I didn't indict all select coaches.  I'm sure most are fine people.  In fact I know few. 

I have, however seen a few broad and ignorant posts talking about high school coaches.

"I'll take a high school coach any day over a select coach."----Your words---both broad and ignorant. 

[RIP09]

How is it broad or ignorant?  I didn't indict all select coaches.  I'm sure most are fine people.  In fact I know few. 

I have, however seen a few broad and ignorant posts talking about high school coaches.

"I'll take a high school coach any day over a select coach."----Your words---both broad and ignorant. 

I'd have to agree with Diamond J on this one. Obviously you haven't seen many high school or select coaches. I am sure there are both good and bad from both groups, but I would never say I would take any high school coach over a select coach.  The experiences of the majority of the people I know is just the opposite. You must have had one great high school coach and one completely terrible select coach to make a statement like that.

[BearBryant]

How is it broad or ignorant?  I didn't indict all select coaches.  I'm sure most are fine people.  In fact I know few. 

I have, however seen a few broad and ignorant posts talking about high school coaches.

"I'll take a high school coach any day over a select coach."----Your words---both broad and ignorant. 

I still don't see where it is broad or ignorant.  I stand by my statement. As  a whole, high school coaches are better.  Of course parents think different because select coaches tell parents what they want to here, that little johnny can become a major leaguer. 

If you can't see that diamondj, you are the ignorant one.  You've tolerated some pretty broad posts on the other side of this issue, yet you've remained silent on those.  Pretty hypocritical.

[BearBryant]

How is it broad or ignorant?  I didn't indict all select coaches.  I'm sure most are fine people.  In fact I know few. 

I have, however seen a few broad and ignorant posts talking about high school coaches.

"I'll take a high school coach any day over a select coach."----Your words---both broad and ignorant. 

I'd have to agree with Diamond J on this one. Obviously you haven't seen many high school or select coaches. I am sure there are both good and bad from both groups, but I would never say I would take any high school coach over a select coach.  The experiences of the majority of the people I know is just the opposite. You must have had one great high school coach and one completely terrible select coach to make a statement like that.

I've seen lots of both.  And yes there are good and bad on both groups.  I still stand by my statement .  And yes I did have a great high school baseball coach.  I wouldn't trade the experience I had for anything. 

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, I realize that.  I'm speaking from what I've seen, and what I know, and my opinion of the matter. 

[elhector1]

I waited till everyone had said their piece, to evaluate everything said, and then respond.

I think we sometimes see programs come down the pike, and beleive them to be the best thing since sliced bread.  Then, we realize that these programs are populated by human beings and not machines, that there is a human factor to everything...especially to our kids.

Select baseball does build the athlete, but it doesn't build the team.  Like everything else, there are good and bad, and as much has been said on this thread.  So no one can say..."this kid played select, so he should start".  I don't care how much money daddy paid out, it still is the high school coach's decision upon evaluation of the kid and his talents, at tryouts, and at practice, and eventually at pre-season games.  I have seen non-select kids play at the same level without the benefit of "daddy's money".  A certain second baseman from the Class of '08 comes to mind.  And for those who think only kids with "daddy's money" get criticized, I heard plenty of verbal jabs from some of those who had "daddy's money" when he had a bad game, but if Junior was criticized, then it was "jealousy".

Secondly, real parents have to carry a pin to prick a kid's ballooning ego, if needed.  That is the parent's RESPONSIBILITY.  Egos do not belong on the diamond...a team attitude does.  We as parents of "aff-aletes" need to put their talents in perspective with what is meaningful in the world.  If you want Junior to be a star in his own production, keep him in select.  That way, only Junior can hurt himself, instead of hurting a team making a run at a state title with selfish attitudes.  Caveat:...if this doesn't apply to you kid, I'm not talking about you!...But if it does...trust me, the parents and fans in the stands will know.

Finally...coaches become coaches because they LOVE the sport that the coach.  Griff at LCM comes to mind.  He was fielding playoff teams WAY before Select ball came along.  So if some pscyho, "my Junior is the star, I'm very important in the community" parent came along and questioned his decisions and coaching style...

1.  STEP OFF!

2.  Call the guys in the white coats, cause you ARE certifiable!

Don't know about any other coaches in the area.

[643]

I have watched a few games and think some parents will line-up and put on knee pads when talking to a new coach about their son. The same parents are the VERY ONES that when their son takes a called 3rd strike screams from the stands "thats OK you'll get m next time" this makes me want to PUKE. I have on more than a few occas listened to parents try and sway a HS coachs thinking, I'm not saying some don't need help as they were gave the task of coaching BB but most DONT. TASK is the key word and its something your seeing less of as your seeing more HS coaches with a BB background, to them its not a task, its a love of the game...

[JS]

How is it broad or ignorant?  I didn't indict all select coaches.  I'm sure most are fine people.  In fact I know few. 

I have, however seen a few broad and ignorant posts talking about high school coaches.

"I'll take a high school coach any day over a select coach."----Your words---both broad and ignorant. 

I still don't see where it is broad or ignorant.  I stand by my statement. As  a whole, high school coaches are better.  Of course parents think different because select coaches tell parents what they want to here, that little johnny can become a major leaguer. 

If you can't see that diamondj, you are the ignorant one.  You've tolerated some pretty broad posts on the other side of this issue, yet you've remained silent on those.  Pretty hypocritical.

Read it again Jethro--I said the post was broad and ignorant and I am correct. I have experienced this from all angles--from great high school coaches to some that were less than brilliant and some who were simply reliving their "golden youth" through the team. I have also seen some select coaches that were "turds" for lack of a better term and some are just plain stupid. Most of the coaches in my district are great coaches and fine people. Most are personal friends of mine but I will call a spade a spade when I see it.

The long and short of it is simply this: there are good ones and bad ones on both sides of this issue but to say "I will take a high school coach any day over a select coach" is broad and ignorant.

[BearBryant]

How is it broad or ignorant?  I didn't indict all select coaches.  I'm sure most are fine people.  In fact I know few. 

I have, however seen a few broad and ignorant posts talking about high school coaches.

"I'll take a high school coach any day over a select coach."----Your words---both broad and ignorant. 

I still don't see where it is broad or ignorant.  I stand by my statement. As  a whole, high school coaches are better.  Of course parents think different because select coaches tell parents what they want to here, that little johnny can become a major leaguer. 

If you can't see that diamondj, you are the ignorant one.  You've tolerated some pretty broad posts on the other side of this issue, yet you've remained silent on those.  Pretty hypocritical.

Read it again Jethro--I said the post was broad and ignorant and I am correct. I have experienced this from all angles--from great high school coaches to some that were less than brilliant and some who were simply reliving their "golden youth" through the team. I have also seen some select coaches that were "turds" for lack of a better term and some are just plain stupid. Most of the coaches in my district are great coaches and fine people. Most are personal friends of mine but I will call a spade a spade when I see it.

The long and short of it is simply this: there are good ones and bad ones on both sides of this issue but to say "I will take a high school coach any day over a select coach" is broad and ignorant.

You are not correct, you are defining things to fit your view.  I'm calling a spade a spade as I'm seeing it. 

[JS]

so specifically WHAT is incorrect about my view? Are you suggesting that ALL high school coaches are superior to select coaches? Please explain.

[BearBryant]

so specifically WHAT is incorrect about my view? Are you suggesting that ALL high school coaches are superior to select coaches? Please explain.

No I'm not suggesting that.  I'm saying as a whole, I'd take a high school coach over a select coach.  In general, I think that high school coaches are better. That doesn't mean that all of them are. 

[EAGLE07]

I think it is ok for coaches to go watch some of the kids that will be coming his way in the future.  But I do not agree with him going out to watch for the reasons you guys list.  DAD, the little league coach, has been playing him at SS and batting him 3rd since he was wearing diapers.  The assitant coaches son is hitting clean up and pitching.

No high school coach cares where these kids played in little league.  No high school coach cares who was the best in little league.  All they care about who is the best player now!  (and believe me it is rarely the one that was the best in little league)

One guy wrote, "select makes players better".   This may be or may not be the truth. I do know one thng I believe is truth.  Select does not make our local high school teams better.

Local examples:

In the eighties and ninties the Houston area schools were ahead of us and already playing selcet ball.  Our local playoff teams rolled though Houston like a steam roller after spending the entire year practicing and playing here at home. (TOGETHER) We had a rep in Austin about ten years running.  We had teams from the same district playing all of the way through the bracket and meeting in the region finals.

Select baseball moved into SETEX and our local high school teams have fallen off of the map.  You take the best kids (three or four) off of 8 teams in the area and you just left 8 local high school teams playing in a weak pony league.

When is the last playoff run that we have had in 4A or 5A?  When is the last top ten team that we have had in 4A or 5A?  When is the last team that we had that competed to go to Austin? Don't say Jasper either because they play together year round.  

I am sure you are going to be able to name a school or two that beat the recent trend, but the name of that school will not be Westbrook, it will not be Nederland, it will not be Vidor, it will not be Lumberton, it will not be LCM, it will not be Ozen, it will not be PNG, it will not be Dayton, it will not be Barbers Hill, and it will not be Livingston.

Baseball and basketball!  Play together or you will lose.  That is just an honest opinion of a retiredoldcoach.

Barbers Hill made a run in '07 to the Region III semi-finals....were #8 in one of the final state rankings. 

Hales and Campbell played for SE Texas SunDevils, Thamm for the Houston Heat, Silva w/ the Knights and Magic, Garner w/ the Knights in the summer season.    Oops, forgot..Rocha w/ the Knights and Kelley w/ the Ft Bend Texans.  I think it would be great if an entire high school team could play off-season together. Back in my day, this was against UIL regs. Has this changed ?

Not trying to start anything, but you may have just proved retiredoldcoaches' point.  Because how did that group fair in 08 when most where seniors?

They lost in the area round. Pitcher w/ a dead arm and a key player not passing classes having to sit on the bench were the major reasons for not advancing. Lack of hitting in key situations was another. Had nothing to do w/ playing select ball. And the dead arm was not from throwing all summer in select ball. The kid threw a total of 13 innings all summer w/ his select team.

[JS]

so specifically WHAT is incorrect about my view? Are you suggesting that ALL high school coaches are superior to select coaches? Please explain.

No I'm not suggesting that.  I'm saying as a whole, I'd take a high school coach over a select coach.  In general, I think that high school coaches are better. That doesn't mean that all of them are. 

ok--but that was not the quote--he said "any day" that is what I found offensive----we are not that far apart

[EAGLE07]

One point has been vaildated. 

BH kids all played select in different directions.  They INDIVIDUALLY got scholarships but their high shool team underachieved.

We all hear about the erosion of the team concept in high school sports.  In my opinion select sports, whether it be baseball, basketball, or volleyball has contributed to the downfall of TEAM.  Its all about ME and MY playing time, and MY performance, and MY scholarship, and MY son or daughter.

I have lived through these changing times.  I have watched it, I have lived it, and I am disappointed that it has happened.   

I agree with what you are saying except every time a team under achieves it cannot always be blamed on select ball and individualism. It certainly doesn't apply to the BH team of '08. I've given the reasons for BH's '08 demise in general. I could go into much greater detail but probably would not be appropriate on an open forum.

[EAGLE07]

I call BS. I would venture to say that any athlete willing to devote their summer to playing whatever sport they choose, instead of going to Garner or running the streets, has TOTAL dedication to their team. If trying to get a scholarship through exposure is selfish, then so be it. Select IS NOT the problem. It's a lack of dedication and poor work habits of others that undermines many a high school team. I've seen it in Baytown for years. You cannot rely on kids who can't pass, stay out of trouble, come to practice or are just plain cancers. That is what you have to deal with at the high school level. During the summer, do those things and you will be replaced.

You cannot have good chemistry if the mixture is not right. In high school, you cannot choose the mixture.

BINGO !!!!!! Well said.

[BCcardbacker]

Our son started playing select ball at age 9, played until he was 13, we spent thousands on traveling all over the US for tournaments, hitting lessons, catcher lessons, etc.  He was on a team that won a world series and played in the Elite 16 in Orlanda, Fla.  BUT, got burned out at 13 and played Pony then was on the varsity team as a Sophmore.  My point is, he was a catcher and pitcher through the years in select and then Pony, but he now is an outfielder.  So the lessons and all that didn't determine what he would play when he reached high school.  I believe the experience of traveling and playing all over was great for him, but if you asked him, he would take his high school coach over the select coach anyday.

[EAGLE07]

You ask  "shouldn't they form an opinion on his own?"   That is the whole point of the post.  He should.  And he would do a better job if he went to watch them play.  It's good that your coaches get out to see the younger kids play.  i don't see that often, if ever, around here.

Most high school coaches also coach 3 sports, have families, and during the summertime are preparing for the upcoming football season.  They also like to get a little fishing in and what have you.  Most high school coaches are volunteering their time helping their kids little dribbler basketball team, their sons little league team, or their daughters softball team.  A good coach is also going to be a good evaluator of talent so he isn't going to have to go trapsing around southeast texas lurking around select games to watch little Nolan Ryan. 

I've known select coaches who coach these teams  because they've been removed from high school ball, or had trouble in the classroom.  I'll take a high school coach any day over a select coach. 

That is a broad and ignorant post. One of the premier select organizations in the state is run by Mike Rutledge(Kyle Chapman). He and his staff do all of their work pro bono--no charge for their services--in fact he spends a lot of his own money on this organization. All they look for are kids with talent who love to play the game. They do not tolerate attitude problems.

What they are trying to do is help young talented boys turn into talented men while staying on the right path.

If someones kid is playing on a team with a coach as you describe then he is on the wrong team or playing for the wrong reason.

Exactly the same w/ Phil Cross and the Houston Heat. Also, the Heat organization goes out of there way to stress your high school team comes first.Period, no exceptions.

[ksagrl1]

I could have sworn the original article pointed out how parents tend to make excuses for their kids rather than backing a coach's decision.  Why has this turned into 7 pages debating select vs. high school coaches?  :